Great Inside Linebackers are a luxury

Originally posted by thl408:

Common reaction to downplay the importance of player(s) that leave in order to feel better about the loss. But, I do agree with you, pd24. If I had to rank the order of importance in terms of player positions for a 3-4 defense, I'd go: DEs, OLBs, Safeties, NT, CBs, ILBs. Still, having great ILBs does more for a defense than having a great fullback (least important offensive position) does for an offense.

Fangio's defense really took advantage of Bow/Willis in 11-13. He used those two to do a lot of things with regards to pass coverage. Having Bow and Willis allowed the 49ers to play the CBs with a cushion and not suffer big consequences. The CBs would play with a cushion to prevent the vertical route while the doublemint twins were good at dropping back, providing coverage of the passing lanes to any underneath and inside breaking routes. Notice how even with the cushions that the CBs played with, very few quick slants were completed against the 49ers' defense. It was always quick outs that got them, not quick inside breaking routes. When the ILBs play like this, it usually allows passes to the RBs to be effective since the ILBs drop back to gain depth and give up short throws to the RBs who now have space to run. However, what Bow and Willis did so well was tackle in the open field and prevent any RAC yardage from passes to the RB. 1v1 versus a RB in open space is always a win for Bow/Willis.

I hope Baalke doesn't think he needs to address ILB with a 1st or 2nd rounder due to the recent retirings. I would rather help Wilhoite succeed rather than directly upgrading Wilhoite, and I'm not even high on him. Nab a good DE/DT prospect and coach that guy up. That will help the ILBs perform their assignments.

You and Johnny are the kind of breakdowns and I appreciate it.

Question for you/anyone with knowledge.

Do we have one or is there one in the draft, a hybrid ILB/safety/CB that is big, tall, and strong enough to rotate in who could handle runs but can do coverage?

Does dontae Johnson have the skills for run support? Or someone else?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pd24:
I know we had some great ones, but to me they are the least important part on the defense. If you build a great front 5 in our case and a sound secondary that doesn't give up the big play you can get by and still have a dominant defense with one good to great ILB and one serviceable ILB or even to decent ILB's.

Our defense evolved over the years. It was 1st built around Willis because he was great and then Bowman became great so you build around your best players. Now hopefully we have two great OLB'S in Aldon and Lynch.

We should still add at least 1 D lineman, 1 corner, and an ILB, but I would be ok with adding the ILB in the 3rd or 4th rounds instead of spending a high pick on one when a better player is on the board.

I agree. Remember Brandon Moore? He had to step in for Willis for a bit and put up great numbers. Wilhoite looked good last year. Borland was on pace to put up 180+ tackles! Hell, even Moody looked good. That's not to say Willis and Bowman "together" on the field at the same time weren't special but production-wise, it IS the one position you can step into as a rookie and ball out and put up great numbers in our defense. Also, Fangio is gone so I expect we'll see less of the ILB's stuck in coverage and more of one of them substituted for a DB (of which we have a plethora of).

Yeah, until a team runs 22 personnel groupings. IJS

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pd24:
I know we had some great ones, but to me they are the least important part on the defense. If you build a great front 5 in our case and a sound secondary that doesn't give up the big play you can get by and still have a dominant defense with one good to great ILB and one serviceable ILB or even to decent ILB's.

Our defense evolved over the years. It was 1st built around Willis because he was great and then Bowman became great so you build around your best players. Now hopefully we have two great OLB'S in Aldon and Lynch.

We should still add at least 1 D lineman, 1 corner, and an ILB, but I would be ok with adding the ILB in the 3rd or 4th rounds instead of spending a high pick on one when a better player is on the board.

I agree. Remember Brandon Moore? He had to step in for Willis for a bit and put up great numbers. Wilhoite looked good last year. Borland was on pace to put up 180+ tackles! Hell, even Moody looked good. That's not to say Willis and Bowman "together" on the field at the same time weren't special but production-wise, it IS the one position you can step into as a rookie and ball out and put up great numbers in our defense. Also, Fangio is gone so I expect we'll see less of the ILB's stuck in coverage and more of one of them substituted for a DB (of which we have a plethora of).

Yeah, until a team runs 22 personnel groupings. IJS

Yeah, s/b interesting to see how Mangini plays to our personnel re: schemes. Will we nab a 2-gap wide-bodied NT to free up Carradine and Dockett more along with Brooks/Lynch and Aldon? Run more nickle (heavy DB-focused)? Constant pressure or more run-stuffing focused?

Any guesses?

I agree with most on here that MLB is not as important as our need for defensive line, but from what I've seen it looks like in the second round that if we take a linemen it would be reaching compared to the talent of stephone Anthony and perryman. I don't think this team can afford to not pick BPA and with the injuries of Ian Williams and glen Dorsey last year, I think our dline has enough depth even if it's not our best unit. We shouldn't be forced to take a DL in the second round if we go WR, OL Or CB in the first IMO.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by thl408:
Common reaction to downplay the importance of player(s) that leave in order to feel better about the loss. But, I do agree with you, pd24. If I had to rank the order of importance in terms of player positions for a 3-4 defense, I'd go: DEs, OLBs, Safeties, NT, CBs, ILBs. Still, having great ILBs does more for a defense than having a great fullback (least important offensive position) does for an offense.

Fangio's defense really took advantage of Bow/Willis in 11-13. He used those two to do a lot of things with regards to pass coverage. Having Bow and Willis allowed the 49ers to play the CBs with a cushion and not suffer big consequences. The CBs would play with a cushion to prevent the vertical route while the doublemint twins were good at dropping back, providing coverage of the passing lanes to any underneath and inside breaking routes. Notice how even with the cushions that the CBs played with, very few quick slants were completed against the 49ers' defense. It was always quick outs that got them, not quick inside breaking routes. When the ILBs play like this, it usually allows passes to the RBs to be effective since the ILBs drop back to gain depth and give up short throws to the RBs who now have space to run. However, what Bow and Willis did so well was tackle in the open field and prevent any RAC yardage from passes to the RB. 1v1 versus a RB in open space is always a win for Bow/Willis.

I hope Baalke doesn't think he needs to address ILB with a 1st or 2nd rounder due to the recent retirings. I would rather help Wilhoite succeed rather than directly upgrading Wilhoite, and I'm not even high on him. Nab a good DE/DT prospect and coach that guy up. That will help the ILBs perform their assignments.

You and Johnny are the kind of breakdowns and I appreciate it.

Question for you/anyone with knowledge.

Do we have one or is there one in the draft, a hybrid ILB/safety/CB that is big, tall, and strong enough to rotate in who could handle runs but can do coverage?

Does dontae Johnson have the skills for run support? Or someone else?

I'm not a draftnik so my knowledge of the draft pool is very low. You seem to be describing Kam Chancellor, the strong safety for SEA. Kam is either a small LB or a huge safety. Nick Moody is the closest player to what you described on the current roster. He was a safety in college and was moved, exclusively, to ILB with the 49ers.

Fangio did not opt to use this type of hybrid player that Mike Nolan liked to use in his 'Big Nickel' defense (standard nickel package is 3CBs/2safeties. Big Nickel is 2CBs/3safeties). Unless Mangini starts to utilize this type of player in this type of 'Big Nickel' defense, I don't see a need for this type of hybrid player on the 49er roster.

Dontae Johnson was used primarily as a cover corner, not in any way as a LB.