Coolest Montana/Young trivia most Niner (and NFL) fans don't know or at least think a

NCommand's post in the Jets/49ers NFLN replay thread about "Steve Young took almost all his snaps under center"....

I believe he might be slightly mistaken:

Joe Montana & Steve Young took every snap under center.

EVERY SINGLE ONE!

So when you're out there having to debate the greatness of these guys, just know how good they were that they didn't have that little crutch that all other QBs we've seen play since the '80s have. Peyton Manning for instance it seemed like he rarely ever goes under center.

When Montana lobbed that beautiful sideline bomb to Rice to beat the Giants in the '88 season, facing a 3rd and 10 from his own 22 with under a minute to play.....no shotgun.

Some non Niner fan said the most interesting thing about Montana: "I've never seen a QB cover so much yardage in his drops than Montana". Kinda true now that I think of it.

The best compliment I think to this trivia is I told this to a random football fan and he was like "NO WAY, THAT CAN'T BE TRUE! I NEED PROOF".




* - Now it's possible they might have, but I really doubt it (and if so, I wanna see it!). I first learned about this reading it in an article written by Young where he said he preferred not taking his eyes off to catch a snap so he can always be reading the defense (and I believe he included Montana in this).

After reading that I thought about it and was like "oh s****, that's right, I've never seen them in the gun".

I DONT LIKE SHOTGUNS !

Epic. I believe it was 100% as the entire WCO is built on the timing of the drop backs. Hell, even when they ran a QB draw or naked bootleg (plays that would be easier to run in shotgun), they STILL took the snap from under center. LOL.

Well done!

This has been discussed a few times here. Walsh hated shotgun because the speed of the shotgun snap would create inconsistencies in timing between the QB dropback and the WR routes.

Originally posted by thl408:

This has been discussed a few times here. Walsh hated shotgun because the speed of the shotgun snap would create inconsistencies in timing between the QB dropback and the WR routes.

This is all true however there where shotgun formations in bill's playbook.



Images taken from 1982 niners playbook. Notice how the gun formations are almost 100% pass, as the running backs are set up in front of the QB.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

NCommand's post in the Jets/49ers NFLN replay thread about "Steve Young took almost all his snaps under center"....

I believe he might be slightly mistaken:

Joe Montana & Steve Young took every snap under center.

EVERY SINGLE ONE!

So when you're out there having to debate the greatness of these guys, just know how good they were that they didn't have that little crutch that all other QBs we've seen play since the '80s have. Peyton Manning for instance it seemed like he rarely ever goes under center.

When Montana lobbed that beautiful sideline bomb to Rice to beat the Giants in the '88 season, facing a 3rd and 10 from his own 22 with under a minute to play.....no shotgun.

Some non Niner fan said the most interesting thing about Montana: "I've never seen a QB cover so much yardage in his drops than Montana". Kinda true now that I think of it.

The best compliment I think to this trivia is I told this to a random football fan and he was like "NO WAY, THAT CAN'T BE TRUE! I NEED PROOF".




* - Now it's possible they might have, but I really doubt it (and if so, I wanna see it!). I first learned about this reading it in an article written by Young where he said he preferred not taking his eyes off to catch a snap so he can always be reading the defense (and I believe he included Montana in this).

After reading that I thought about it and was like "oh s****, that's right, I've never seen them in the gun".

I had heard the story that bill was installing shot gun plays real early in his tenure. As Thl stated, snaps vary and in the story I heard snaps where failng at a high %, that is when he essentially s**t canned the gun. I bet any video evidence would be in either preseason games of practice films. He kept the gun in his playbook so I wonder if he envisioned having to eventually go to due to the in flux of speed to the league over the years.

Originally posted by Niners816:
I had heard the story that bill was installing shot gun plays real early in his tenure. As Thl stated, snaps vary and in the story I heard snaps where failng at a high %, that is when he essentially s**t canned the gun. I bet any video evidence would be in either preseason games of practice films. He kept the gun in his playbook so I wonder if he envisioned having to eventually go to due to the in flux of speed to the league over the years.

Good find. What would Bill think these days...all these QB's (CK, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc.) almost exclusively in shot gun.

I remember Brodie in shotgun many times. And that was way before Dallas made it popular in the early 70's

Yet play option 4 in Techmo Bowl, was a shotgun.

Ironically, these 4 plays also completed Romans playbook.

Originally posted by trooper49:
I remember Brodie in shotgun many times. And that was way before Dallas made it popular in the early 70's

Red Hickey...he's the one who invented it in early-60s with Brodie as QB. Landry brought it back in mid-70s with Staubach.

Hickey also helped Tittle and Owens come up with the "Alley-Oop".

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

I had heard the story that bill was installing shot gun plays real early in his tenure. As Thl stated, snaps vary and in the story I heard snaps where failng at a high %, that is when he essentially s**t canned the gun. I bet any video evidence would be in either preseason games of practice films. He kept the gun in his playbook so I wonder if he envisioned having to eventually go to due to the in flux of speed to the league over the years.

Good find. What would Bill think these days...all these QB's (CK, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc.) almost exclusively in shot gun.

I honestly think he would have adapted and adopted more gun plays. He just would have built into the plays the timing of the gun/gun snap. I also think his gun forms would have been tweaked to allow running plays and fakes off of the run.

The timing of a pure Walsh Offense (Never say west coast, its an insult Walsh, and the Niners) relied on timing. The timing was sent by the QB's footwork in his drop back. Another next aspect of the offense was a limited number of formations, and personnel groups. By not giving the defense much to look at Walsh could take advantage of base defenses. His use of formation was almost always to deceive defenses. His idea in scripting plays in the beginning of games, was to confirm the looks he would get from defenses when in certain formations. The idea of limiting formations and forcing defenses to give you the look you want, rather than using formations to force your will on defenses was revolutionary. The Seahags loss in the Super Bowl, was exactly why Walsh avoided gimmick formations, they give good defenses too many clues. The Patriots knew what was coming, because of the formation.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
The timing of a pure Walsh Offense (Never say west coast, its an insult Walsh, and the Niners) relied on timing. The timing was sent by the QB's footwork in his drop back. Another next aspect of the offense was a limited number of formations, and personnel groups. By not giving the defense much to look at Walsh could take advantage of base defenses. His use of formation was almost always to deceive defenses. His idea in scripting plays in the beginning of games, was to confirm the looks he would get from defenses when in certain formations. The idea of limiting formations and forcing defenses to give you the look you want, rather than using formations to force your will on defenses was revolutionary. The Seahags loss in the Super Bowl, was exactly why Walsh avoided gimmick formations, they give good defenses too many clues. The Patriots knew what was coming, because of the formation.

Quality points!

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:
I had heard the story that bill was installing shot gun plays real early in his tenure. As Thl stated, snaps vary and in the story I heard snaps where failng at a high %, that is when he essentially s**t canned the gun. I bet any video evidence would be in either preseason games of practice films. He kept the gun in his playbook so I wonder if he envisioned having to eventually go to due to the in flux of speed to the league over the years.

Good find. What would Bill think these days...all these QB's (CK, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc.) almost exclusively in shot gun.

I honestly think he would have adapted and adopted more gun plays. He just would have built into the plays the timing of the gun/gun snap. I also think his gun forms would have been tweaked to allow running plays and fakes off of the run.

Can you imagine? Without defensive holding and with so many P.I.'s BW would have a field day drawing up plays these days.

From Red Hickey to Bill Walsh, our franchise totally revolutionized the game of football. It's amazing to think about..