Saying Good-Bye to a Legend- The Niners should trade Patrick Willis | Page 13

MadDog49er · 2014-12-17T02:54:37-08:00

Watching former 49ers greats, like Joe Montana, wearing a Chiefs' jersey, or Jerry Rice wearing a Raiders' jersey, is like being part of some strange alternate universe. It just didn't seem real, or right, or __________ (your choice of words). And, yet, the Niners are on the verge of turning the page on a roster full of terrific players that deserve a spot, or at least an argument for a spot, on our best-ever roster. The one I want to focus on in this thread is Patrick Willis, Willis will turn 30 this next month, and let's be honest, his best football is behind him. In the first five years of his career, there was no one better (better than Ray, better than Urlacher/Briggs, better than anyone). He should make the Hall of Fame someday as the dominant defender of the middle, a three-down stud. But, as we know, Father Time has a way of slowing down the best and brightest, and Willis doesn't have the same impact as he once did in his earlier days, He is not as dominant, not the best in the league anymore. He has come back to simply being very good, which is better than most rosters have across the NFL. The problem the Niners have with Willis is that: 1) Chris Borland is also very good; 2) Navarro Bowman is also very good; 3) Willis makes about twice as much money as Bowman (who is four years younger), and a LOT more than Borland. Unless the Niners can find a new defensive scheme with 3 interior linebackers, this team has a problem: Which dude do you bench? Even though Willis has been so good to us, it doesn't make much salary cap sense to commit nearly $9 million this year to Willis, when you have a player at the same level, maybe slightly higher or lower depending on your perspective, in Borland, making a fraction of that amount. As much as it would kill me to see Willis play for another team, the reality of the current salary cap era, the large cap number the team possesses going into 2015, and the list of free agents to either re-sign, or sign from other clubs, and the stellar play of Bowman (in 2012 and 2013) and Borland, simply makes Willis a Niners' legend that is...I hate to say the word...expendable. He, along with Frank Gore, have been the heart and soul of this team for so long, but this will be a new Niners' team in 2015, and the team has too many other needs entering the season to carry a huge cap number in a position of strength. Trust me: there will be suitors in trades. Watching the Texans this year, they have a gigantic hole at ILB. There are numerous other teams who have the cap space (he would surely have to re-negotiate the contract down) and would love to have Willis on their roster. All of this argument is based on the idea that Bowman and Borland will come back healthy entering 2015.

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:07 PM

#181

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,951

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Right. Also another thing we need to take into account is he was able to get so many of those tackles because there wasn't another playmaker at his position to eat up those stats. wihoite is not a starter.. well he is a starter but not by our standards at the position he's a great backup
you can get the monster numbers when nobody is there to stop you from getting it because they make the same plays that you make
its not a knock
willis a hof player and there's no reason to replace him with someone who is unproven
yes borland is unproven
the only thing that can make him proven is time.
willis has done his time he is a sure thing we know there is no slump coming we know what he can do.

Agree completely. Add in the fact that NaVorro is just right there with Patrick and...

Except that Willis has been playing through the free OL for the past 4 years and Bowman/Borland get to play around them. It is a very real technical and schematic difference in responsibilities that doesn't go away because the money makes more sense. You have to be built and/or wired differently to do what Pat does. Borland isn't built for it, and Bowman has not shown that he's wired for it. Why in the WORLD would you deal Pat without knowing whether on e of those guys could play strong side as effectively? Beyond that, wouldn't you want to see if Borland can fix his recently exposed deficiencies in coverage before shipping Pat away?

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:07 PM

#182

jonesadrian
Veteran
Posts: 6,015

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I actually think Dial has been fine the last couple of weeks. We had guys missing tackles in the hole against Seattle. If defenders are reaching the hole unblocked, with a chance for a minimal gain, the NT is doing his job, IMO. The passing game is where our ILBs have been exposed in the last two weeks. Interior intermediate zones are open for business, and OAK and SEA provided the free advertising.

I respectfully disagree, I think the PFF rankings support that too.

Williams was doing a really good job as the NT this season, I think he was one of the more underappreciated guys on this team, kind of like Kilgore. Losing him was HUGE. Dial is a decent player but not at that same level which is why I was hoping that Dorsey would be back but that's over too. Ultimately I see Dial's best position at DE.

To be fair to Dial he wasn't supposed to be the NT he wasn't practicing as it either. Vic said this.
but he stepped up and did a damn good job considering he's out of position imo

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:08 PM

#183

jonesadrian
Veteran
Posts: 6,015

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Right. Also another thing we need to take into account is he was able to get so many of those tackles because there wasn't another playmaker at his position to eat up those stats. wihoite is not a starter.. well he is a starter but not by our standards at the position he's a great backup
you can get the monster numbers when nobody is there to stop you from getting it because they make the same plays that you make
its not a knock
willis a hof player and there's no reason to replace him with someone who is unproven
yes borland is unproven
the only thing that can make him proven is time.
willis has done his time he is a sure thing we know there is no slump coming we know what he can do.

Agree completely. Add in the fact that NaVorro is just right there with Patrick and...

Except that Willis has been playing through the free OL for the past 4 years and Bowman/Borland get to play around them. It is a very real technical and schematic difference in responsibilities that doesn't go away because the money makes more sense. You have to be built and/or wired differently to do what Pat does. Borland isn't built for it, and Bowman has not shown that he's wired for it. Why in the WORLD would you deal Pat without knowing whether on e of those guys could play strong side as effectively? Beyond that, wouldn't you want to see if Borland can fix his recently exposed deficiencies in coverage before shipping Pat away?

it would just be one of the dumbest moves in this franchise's history

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:10 PM

#184

sincalfaithful
Veteran
Posts: 27,712

I thought this was one of 9moons threads

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:10 PM

#185

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,951

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I actually think Dial has been fine the last couple of weeks. We had guys missing tackles in the hole against Seattle. If defenders are reaching the hole unblocked, with a chance for a minimal gain, the NT is doing his job, IMO. The passing game is where our ILBs have been exposed in the last two weeks. Interior intermediate zones are open for business, and OAK and SEA provided the free advertising.

I respectfully disagree, I think the PFF rankings support that too.

Williams was doing a really good job as the NT this season, I think he was one of the more underappreciated guys on this team, kind of like Kilgore. Losing him was HUGE. Dial is a decent player but not at that same level which is why I was hoping that Dorsey would be back but that's over too. Ultimately I see Dial's best position at DE.

I agree, which is why I said I think he's doing fine, not great nor as good as Williams. I still think we missed a bunch of tackles for minimal gain, and I still think if we have free-running tacklers at the hole the NT is not the real problem.

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:11 PM

#186

JustinNiner
Veteran
Posts: 6,762

GTFO of here that shish

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:11 PM

#187

JustinNiner
Veteran
Posts: 6,762

everyone is too wet over Borland. Borland is not up to Pwilly's standards and plus if we get a new coach who runs a 4-3 defense we will need Borland, pwilly, and bowman all together

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:15 PM

#188

Phoenix49ers
Veteran
Posts: 131,698

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
it would just be one of the dumbest moves in this franchise's history

I agree. No reason to trade Willis, especially in light of the other guys that could get cut/traded(Brooks...etc) and this:

$4 million over what the eventual cap likely will be is not really insurmountable.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/11/25/49ers-will-likely-be-over-the-salary-cap-after-the-season/

According to former agent and now commentator Joel Corry (@corryjoel), the 49ers have the third-most salary cap commitments in the NFL for 2015 at $149 million. The salary cap is expected to be around $145 million for next season, meaning the team would have to shave about $4 million off their cap in the off-season.

Corry said the team can realize nearly $8 million in cap savings by re-doing quarterback Colin Kaepernick's contract, and will likely save another $4 million by releasing linebacker Ahmad Brooks. Here are the other highlights with my chat with Corry on KNBR's sportsphon

[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Dec 17, 2014 at 12:16 PM ]

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:19 PM

#189

CenCal9er
Veteran
Posts: 5,497

WTF

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:28 PM

#190

verb1der
Member
Posts: 15,613

This team needs a reboot. And I honestly think the following veterans' respective "windows" have come to a close.

Willis
VD
Justin Smith
Crabtree
Ray McDonald
Ahmad Brooks
Frank Gore
Anquan Boldin

Harsh reality!!!

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:32 PM

#191

cmix23
Veteran
Posts: 134

Am I the only one who thought borland's coverage skills were exposed? Yes he had a couple INTs but he was constantly getting burned on crossing routes...luckily the 49ers FO is smarter than u

[ Edited by cmix23 on Dec 17, 2014 at 12:33 PM ]

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:34 PM

#192

Phoenix49ers
Veteran
Posts: 131,698

Originally posted by verb1der:
This team needs a reboot. And I honestly think the following veterans' respective "windows" have come to a close.

Willis
VD
Justin Smith
Crabtree
Ray McDonald
Ahmad Brooks
Frank Gore
Anquan Boldin

Harsh reality!!!

I disagree. I think Willis needs to get healthy, I think Boldin will be back as his game really isn't dependent on his athletic ability to succeed. I do want Gore to come back, as well as Justin Smith and hope that VD can get his s**t together for next season.

Crabtree and Brooks, they can go kick rocks pretty much.

McDonald....meh, I reserve further comment until we hear the details of this latest situation he's involved in.

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:35 PM

#193

JustinNiner
Veteran
Posts: 6,762

Originally posted by verb1der:
This team needs a reboot. And I honestly think the following veterans' respective "windows" have come to a close.

Willis
VD
Justin Smith
Crabtree
Ray McDonald
Ahmad Brooks
Frank Gore
Anquan Boldin

Harsh reality!!!

why change up our defense? Justin smith still did a fantastic job and we have him at a fair price, sam with McDoland. Patrick Willis is finally having that toe repaired so i can see him having a bounce back year and if he doesn't he play up to his contract he will restructure, just the kind of guy he is. Ahmad brooks is as good as gone though. Agree with the offense let go's though

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:35 PM

#194

verb1der
Member
Posts: 15,613

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by verb1der:
This team needs a reboot. And I honestly think the following veterans' respective "windows" have come to a close.

Willis
VD
Justin Smith
Crabtree
Ray McDonald
Ahmad Brooks
Frank Gore
Anquan Boldin

Harsh reality!!!

I disagree. I think Willis needs to get healthy, I think Boldin will be back as his game really isn't dependent on his athletic ability to succeed. I do want Gore to come back, as well as Justin Smith and hope that VD can get his s**t together for next season.

Crabtree and Brooks, they can go kick rocks pretty much.

McDonald....meh, I reserve further comment until we hear the details of this latest situation he's involved in.

You're too hopeful man. lol

Dec 17, 2014 at 12:37 PM

#195

Constantine
Veteran
Posts: 2,248

Just like Bowmen... Borland will need to grow... I dont see Willis going anywhere