Saying Good-Bye to a Legend- The Niners should trade Patrick Willis

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Willis has been dealing with a nagging injury for the past 2 seasons and still playing at a high level but was a step slow because literally his foot was damaged.

he will be completely healthy finally for the first time in a long time and he will be motivated after what happened this season.

we did not have aldon willis bowman and brooks play a single snap together this entire season

we better not trade willis before we see what a team with all 4 of them completely healthy along with lynch and borland with 1 year of game experience under their belts gets to show just how special they can be for the 49ers on the field.

A new coach might insist on a 4-3 alignment, converting Lynch and Aldon back to DEs, starting WIllis, Bowman, and Borland. We don't know yet. In reality though, based on our current defense, the competition is between Bowman and Borland. WIllis is playing a completely different position.

The coach would be an idiot to change this defense at all.
The scheme is perfect. We saw without multiple all pro players it is still a top 5 defense.
With those players it would probably have been by far the best defense in the nfl this season.
We should not change to a 4-3 for any reason. Aldon is the best OLB in the game. he is NOT a defensive end.
we can rotate players in and out and keep people fresh we don't have to rely on someone playing 60 snaps and that will keep the team better
if we can spell bowman with borland.. how special of a defense would this be?
Don't change it trying to be cute
Next year we'll have aldon and lynch for sure, i hope for brooks but who knows.
we will have pat bow and borland
we will have tank dial ian dorsey raymc probable.
the safety position is locked up reid and bathea.
we will have cook back culliver brock johnson cox maybe by mcfadden along with the other rookies who didn't get to play and ward with a year of experience.
we can almost exclusively draft for the offense this entire draft..

While I totally disagree with your premise, this may not be as far fetched as some think when you get a whole new coaching staff. None of us know what they will do with the roster. I've seen crazier things happen.

For the record Borland is an awesome player but we need him for depth. Bowman is not guaranteed to come back full strength and Willis is getting up there in age. The leadership Willis and Bowman bring trumps youth.

Originally posted by prime21:

FU*K YOU, and I mean that in the most respectful way possible.

Post like this again and I will ding you 25% and give you a break from here. And I will do it in the most respectful way possible.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Good post. I fully agree with this and even got bashed for suggesting it when Borland took over.

Yes, I remember the huge overreaction when he first started.

I wasn't overreacting, lol

From a business standpoint, how can you argue with MD's post?

Originally posted by verb1der:
Good post. I fully agree with this and even got bashed for suggesting it when Borland took over.

Wait a minute. Do you fully agree with this assertion.

Orginally posted by MadDog49er: 3) Willis makes about twice as much money as Bowman (who is four years younger)

I think that assertion makes no sense.



The original post seems to radically distort the cap numbers for Willis and Bowman.

If the numbers that I posted are true, that distortion should produce some doubt as to the validity of the original post.

The numbers are from:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/

Originally posted by prime21:
Borland is too slow to be relied upon as a full time starter. Once the opposition runs a sweep, counter, screen or slant, he's running for his life and still manages to give up 30+ yds. Will never be as talented as Willis or Bowman. Borland is a great backup for us and definitely a starter somewhere else but while we got Will-Bo he's gonna have to wait his turn. He's a great tackler, but he can't get sideline to sideline.

He's been making plays all over the field against the run, but coverage has been an issue. Not sure whether that's lack of experience or a matter of speed. I think his speed is under rated...slightly slower than Bowman (4.83 to 4.77). These guys make up for 40 times by diagnosing quickly and taking a very quick first step. Does Bowman look slower than Willis (4.51)? I really don't think he does.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If Bowman and Borland are both healthy next season, sure I could understand the move. But I don't feel like we can do anything until we know if Bowman is the same player.

Agree.

Also, it would depend heavily on compensation and cap relief.

Would there still be $$$ owed if we did trade him?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by prime21:
Borland is too slow to be relied upon as a full time starter. Once the opposition runs a sweep, counter, screen or slant, he's running for his life and still manages to give up 30+ yds. Will never be as talented as Willis or Bowman. Borland is a great backup for us and definitely a starter somewhere else but while we got Will-Bo he's gonna have to wait his turn. He's a great tackler, but he can't get sideline to sideline.

He's been making plays all over the field against the run, but coverage has been an issue. Not sure whether that's lack of experience or a matter of speed. I think his speed is under rated...slightly slower than Bowman (4.83 to 4.77). These guys make up for 40 times by diagnosing quickly and taking a very quick first step. Does Bowman look slower than Willis (4.51)? I really don't think he does.

yea but 4.8 is pushing it. that diagnosing helps in short coverage, flat coverage and zone coverage
he can't run with tight ends on those longer routes, he's proven that. he's in the right position he knows the route and where it's going he's just literally a step slow and they make the catch. the only thing he could do better on some of those coverages where he was caught against is run faster... and he can't

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Good post. I fully agree with this and even got bashed for suggesting it when Borland took over.

Yes, I remember the huge overreaction when he first started.

I wasn't overreacting, lol

From a business standpoint, how can you argue with MD's post?

Simple. Borland plays a couple of games and people think we can dispense with a Probowler. Trading a guy who has just recovered from a major injury is not sensible business practice, you are likely to be offered a discounted rate.

So we are likely to get less than we could, we have no guarantee that Bowman will return at his previous standard and we are assessing the replacement on half a dozen games.

Rest my case.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Good post. I fully agree with this and even got bashed for suggesting it when Borland took over.

Yes, I remember the huge overreaction when he first started.

I wasn't overreacting, lol

From a business standpoint, how can you argue with MD's post?

Simple. Borland plays a couple of games and people think we can dispense with a Probowler. Trading a guy who has just recovered from a major injury is not sensible business practice, you are likely to be offered a discounted rate.

So we are likely to get less than we could, we have no guarantee that Bowman will return at his previous standard and we are assessing the replacement on half a dozen games.

Rest my case.

Right we're going to trade willis who will be healthy for borland who just got banged up and bet it all that his shoulders he's had surgery on and the reason he dropped in the draft are going to hold up for 10 more years

makes a ton of sense.

I hope you were drunk when you posted this

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
We have no one to replace Willis. Neither Bowman nor Borland can play the strong side, inside LB position. Bowman was identified by the staff as being less capable than Willis at it, and Borland absolutely cannot do it (size/strength, tendency to slip blocks rather than stack and shed). Willis plays it better than anyone in recent memory. Still.

/thread.

This.

Yeah, this is not smart. Maybe after next year or something, but we have no idea what Bowman is gonna look like coming back. Borland is a very good player and will allow for quality depth on the inside. He might also allow us to tinker with some things schematically. This is an overreaction and way too hasty.

If we want cap savings we need to find them somewhere else.

lol a new low for Niner Talk and the HOF.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Good post. I fully agree with this and even got bashed for suggesting it when Borland took over.

Yes, I remember the huge overreaction when he first started.

I wasn't overreacting, lol

From a business standpoint, how can you argue with MD's post?

Simple. Borland plays a couple of games and people think we can dispense with a Probowler. Trading a guy who has just recovered from a major injury is not sensible business practice, you are likely to be offered a discounted rate.

So we are likely to get less than we could, we have no guarantee that Bowman will return at his previous standard and we are assessing the replacement on half a dozen games.

Rest my case.

Right we're going to trade willis who will be healthy for borland who just got banged up and bet it all that his shoulders he's had surgery on and the reason he dropped in the draft are going to hold up for 10 more years

makes a ton of sense.

But we could get more picks by trading Willis....one thing that Baalke can do that no one can argue with, is draft linebackers!!!!!

C'mon fellas, think longterm!