Week 14 - 2014: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by MELGIBSON01:
Same crappy Quarterback handling each snap?

Behind the same crappy Oline and throwing to the same old WR/TEs that like to drop balls...yup

Originally posted by rEspEctdA49ers:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't usually do this till Tuesdays, but here is the first INT. I don't need the all22 to know what's going on here. I was curious how often Kap dropped back with good time in the pocket, and no where to pull the trigger. What I found on the first play is all I think I'll need to see.

This is the Spot concept that Walsh used to abuse defenses. It has easy to see progressions built into the route combination and is a staple play in the WCO. I've seen Kap execute this play a number of times. How he could possibly f**k it up here is mind boggling. It's a 5 step drop timing throw. The progression is Corner(VD) -Curl(Boldin) -Flat(Miller). After the 5 step drop, the routes begin to break down as they become dead routes. Crabs is running a backside Curl.

OAK: cover3 with the backside CB playing man coverage on Crabs. There's a deep safety in the middle of the field that is off the screen.
Simply through defensive alignment (orange defender), VD should be red lighted pre snap. He's not going to be open on the Corner route because the orange DB has outside leverage via his positioning. That leaves the next key defender to be the blue defender, the strongside curl-flat defender.


Snapshot of the moment just before the orange defender is off the screen, there is his positioning, Sure enough, orange has outside leverage and will defeat VD's Courner route. Nothing to see here for Kap. He needs to quickly adjust his eye level to the curl-flat defender (blue). Blue is now facing the Curl-Flat concept coming at him.


If blue shades towards, Miller, then rifle it in to Boldin. If blue shades towards Boldin, then target Miller. Easy peasy. Again, it's a rhythm throw. Once the 5 step drop is completed, the routes will begin to break down. Boldin can't get any more open standing there after completing his Curl. Miller can't keep running to the flat or he'll go out of bounds. The window to the backside Curl (Crabs) is about to close. Form this picture, it looks like Kap is still waiting for the Corner route to magically become open. Boldin is well bracketed, the correct throw here is to Miller. If led properly with the pass, he may net minimal RAC.


The Spot route combination is now dead. Kap has not executed his assignment on the play. If the throw to the flat (Miller) nets 2-3 yards, so be it. Tip your hat to the defense and go play 2nd down.

miller in the flat for a 4-5 yard gain is there easy. this f**king guy smh.

What I'd like to know is the reason for Kaep's reluctancy to hit the flat when it's open, is it the system? Has he developed some kind of go for the home run mentality? Someone mentioned earlier of his ability to complete similar throws on the run as above (but in MUCH more plausible situations), and that is true, he frequently had a bailout throw he'd make just about every game. Maybe it's in his nature to just try and create even when the RIGHT play is in front of him? His ability to run certainly affects his decision-making, maybe he feels like he can run and run away from defensive linemen until something opens up. I'd hope JH would stress the dangers of this (if it weren't obvious enough), but I do believe it's in his nature to try and create more so than keep it simple. It also seems like the system does try to convert him into a dropback QB, which he isn't. He's no dummy (despite his recent play), the guy can make plays, I just wish the simplicities of playing QB (throwing the ball away, checking down, being... well the word hurts, but CONSERVATIVE). With his reckless style of play, he didn't seem to turnover the ball as much when we first were introduced to his play, but this year has been entirely different.

Listen, I understand the system plays a HUGE role in his recent downplay, and it's like some kind of programming that's to convert him into a different player instead of natural development. He seems reluctant to run, to make simple checkdowns, and is missing his throws pretty badly.

I just wish that when he's on the field, he could come to the conclusion that taking what the defense gives you isn't the worst thing in the world.

Do you guys not see the pressure that Tuck brings after Gore fails on his attempt to block him. Tuck causes Kap to scramble left making it unable to hit Miller in the flat.

It kills me that after all the b***hing about Alex, ppl now want Kap to play like Alex. lol.

Originally posted by DeUh:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.

This.

This x2

Well the more I see these clips, watch the games and read the articles, one thing is clear. There is no one cause for concern in this offense as nobody has been successful this season. This is in stark contrast to the last few seasons. For this reason the real problem here has to be coaching and scheme. Very rarely do guys get open like for other teams, making for seemingly easy pitch and catch scenarios. The running game isn't finding any room and the QB is going backwards. Whatever magic and creativity Greg Roman possessed in the early years has been adapted to by opposing defenses and he has no response for it. I think he blew the extent of his knowledge in those first few years.

Question. What happened to all the pre-snap line shifting that had been a staple in previous years? Another gimmick that has been figured out?
Question: Howcome the 49ers have gone away from the read option? It is stupid to see the Seahawks copy something we introduced and have success with it while we put it back in the cupboard. I don't see much reason our offenses should be different from theirs.

Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Everything begins and ends with coaching. The buck stopes there.

Kap is playing poorly. What QB plays well under siege, with a poor running game, against a defense that too often knows what's coming? Add to that he is not being developed properly and what do you expect. He has had great games in his career. He has thrown for over 300 yards before. He played well last year even though we had only 1 receiever (Boldin) for over half the year. How is that even possible if he is a poor player.

The O-line looks bad. Too many injuries. Add to that poor play calling. Too many obvious passing situations when defenses can tee off. We used to play with the lead and run the ball and use play action. Now we play from behind and find ourselves in 2nd or 3rd and long way too often. It's also hard to block when the defense knows what you are going to do.

Vernon Davis: nobody knows what is up with him. Is he still injured? He is not the same player. I hope he can come back to form.

Coaching, play calling is terrible. Opposing defenses have figured us out and we have not adjusted. We are far worse in the 2nd half after the other teams make succesful halftime adjustments and we don't. Our play calling is terrible. We had a bye week and a Thursday nite game leaving us extra time to gameplan for the next opponent. That is a big advantage. In both follow up games we sucked on offense including the loss to the 1 win Raiders.

We started the game vs the Raiders with an intermediate pass that wasn't open. Kap escapes left and makes a poor decision to loft up a duck that gets picked. Why? Why didn't we hand the ball off and see if we could establish the run? If we pass why not an easy completion to miller to help our QB get in to the flow and in to a rythymn? Just doesn't make sense.

Long time lurker here.
This is one of my chief complaints about our OC. I have been a Niner fan for over 30+ years and this staff has been among the worst by far. It has gotten to the point that I can call what the play is by formation etc. Imagine what a real DC can do and teach his team. The staff's failure to game plan effectively, along with a failure to make in game adjustments is my personal complaint.
Marvin do you see this also?
Also I am not getting into the Harb/ Roman/ Kap debate, but what is the name of our OC line coach? I have not read anything about his poor instructions. Beyond anything else, he must go.

I find it completely embarrassing that Niner fans are calling for Kap's head. He has proven that he can be successful in this league. I would normally say the same thing about the coach, but you can also see that defenses have figured out this offense, and the staff has had no answer. There is no identity. There is no rhythm. It is a joke watching this offense, and I have talked to multiple fans of other teams who question what we are trying to do. Redskins, Cowboys, Cardinals, and Seahawks fans have all said the same thing.

Originally posted by sc49erob:
Do you guys not see the pressure that Tuck brings after Gore fails on his attempt to block him. Tuck causes Kap to scramble left making it unable to hit Miller in the flat.

Gore doesn't fail at all, in fact he does his job and cuts Tuck to get his hands down to give Kap a passing lane to get the ball out quickly to the right side as designed.

Frank has definitely had some missed blocks this year, but this isn't one of them as far as I can tell.

The crazy thing is that we are still a game above .500

Originally posted by sc49erob:

Originally posted by rEspEctdA49ers:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't usually do this till Tuesdays, but here is the first INT. I don't need the all22 to know what's going on here. I was curious how often Kap dropped back with good time in the pocket, and no where to pull the trigger. What I found on the first play is all I think I'll need to see.

This is the Spot concept that Walsh used to abuse defenses. It has easy to see progressions built into the route combination and is a staple play in the WCO. I've seen Kap execute this play a number of times. How he could possibly f**k it up here is mind boggling. It's a 5 step drop timing throw. The progression is Corner(VD) -Curl(Boldin) -Flat(Miller). After the 5 step drop, the routes begin to break down as they become dead routes. Crabs is running a backside Curl.

OAK: cover3 with the backside CB playing man coverage on Crabs. There's a deep safety in the middle of the field that is off the screen.
Simply through defensive alignment (orange defender), VD should be red lighted pre snap. He's not going to be open on the Corner route because the orange DB has outside leverage via his positioning. That leaves the next key defender to be the blue defender, the strongside curl-flat defender.


Snapshot of the moment just before the orange defender is off the screen, there is his positioning, Sure enough, orange has outside leverage and will defeat VD's Courner route. Nothing to see here for Kap. He needs to quickly adjust his eye level to the curl-flat defender (blue). Blue is now facing the Curl-Flat concept coming at him.


If blue shades towards, Miller, then rifle it in to Boldin. If blue shades towards Boldin, then target Miller. Easy peasy. Again, it's a rhythm throw. Once the 5 step drop is completed, the routes will begin to break down. Boldin can't get any more open standing there after completing his Curl. Miller can't keep running to the flat or he'll go out of bounds. The window to the backside Curl (Crabs) is about to close. Form this picture, it looks like Kap is still waiting for the Corner route to magically become open. Boldin is well bracketed, the correct throw here is to Miller. If led properly with the pass, he may net minimal RAC.


The Spot route combination is now dead. Kap has not executed his assignment on the play. If the throw to the flat (Miller) nets 2-3 yards, so be it. Tip your hat to the defense and go play 2nd down.

miller in the flat for a 4-5 yard gain is there easy. this f**king guy smh.

What I'd like to know is the reason for Kaep's reluctancy to hit the flat when it's open, is it the system? Has he developed some kind of go for the home run mentality? Someone mentioned earlier of his ability to complete similar throws on the run as above (but in MUCH more plausible situations), and that is true, he frequently had a bailout throw he'd make just about every game. Maybe it's in his nature to just try and create even when the RIGHT play is in front of him? His ability to run certainly affects his decision-making, maybe he feels like he can run and run away from defensive linemen until something opens up. I'd hope JH would stress the dangers of this (if it weren't obvious enough), but I do believe it's in his nature to try and create more so than keep it simple. It also seems like the system does try to convert him into a dropback QB, which he isn't. He's no dummy (despite his recent play), the guy can make plays, I just wish the simplicities of playing QB (throwing the ball away, checking down, being... well the word hurts, but CONSERVATIVE). With his reckless style of play, he didn't seem to turnover the ball as much when we first were introduced to his play, but this year has been entirely different.

Listen, I understand the system plays a HUGE role in his recent downplay, and it's like some kind of programming that's to convert him into a different player instead of natural development. He seems reluctant to run, to make simple checkdowns, and is missing his throws pretty badly.

I just wish that when he's on the field, he could come to the conclusion that taking what the defense gives you isn't the worst thing in the world.

Do you guys not see the pressure that Tuck brings after Gore fails on his attempt to block him. Tuck causes Kap to scramble left making it unable to hit Miller in the flat.

The main point is taking what the D is giving you on any given play.
Receivers covered, Franks block was weak
check down to Miller for a few yards
2-7

instead Kap is forcing plays that are not there
turnover that turns into 3 points for Oakland

on the first play of the game
that's unacceptable

Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:

Originally posted by DeUh:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.

This.

TOTALLY this. Kap is our starting QB for the foreseeable future.

This x 1000....

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:

Originally posted by DeUh:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.

This.

TOTALLY this. Kap is our starting QB for the foreseeable future.

This x 1000....

And he would be for 15 - 20 other teams (Chiefs being among them)

Originally posted by sc49erob:
Do you guys not see the pressure that Tuck brings after Gore fails on his attempt to block him. Tuck causes Kap to scramble left making it unable to hit Miller in the flat.

The gif shows the oppsosite. Kap has got about a second to hit Miller.

He has got even more than a second to hit Miller. Are you sure that we are talking about the same play?

Originally posted by MadMark:
Long time lurker here.
This is one of my chief complaints about our OC. I have been a Niner fan for over 30+ years and this staff has been among the worst by far. It has gotten to the point that I can call what the play is by formation etc. Imagine what a real DC can do and teach his team. The staff's failure to game plan effectively, along with a failure to make in game adjustments is my personal complaint.
Marvin do you see this also?
Also I am not getting into the Harb/ Roman/ Kap debate, but what is the name of our OC line coach? I have not read anything about his poor instructions. Beyond anything else, he must go.

Mike Solari. Yes, I think he has to man up and walk along with Roman. Morton as well.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by sc49erob:

Originally posted by rEspEctdA49ers:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't usually do this till Tuesdays, but here is the first INT. I don't need the all22 to know what's going on here. I was curious how often Kap dropped back with good time in the pocket, and no where to pull the trigger. What I found on the first play is all I think I'll need to see.

This is the Spot concept that Walsh used to abuse defenses. It has easy to see progressions built into the route combination and is a staple play in the WCO. I've seen Kap execute this play a number of times. How he could possibly f**k it up here is mind boggling. It's a 5 step drop timing throw. The progression is Corner(VD) -Curl(Boldin) -Flat(Miller). After the 5 step drop, the routes begin to break down as they become dead routes. Crabs is running a backside Curl.

OAK: cover3 with the backside CB playing man coverage on Crabs. There's a deep safety in the middle of the field that is off the screen.
Simply through defensive alignment (orange defender), VD should be red lighted pre snap. He's not going to be open on the Corner route because the orange DB has outside leverage via his positioning. That leaves the next key defender to be the blue defender, the strongside curl-flat defender.


Snapshot of the moment just before the orange defender is off the screen, there is his positioning, Sure enough, orange has outside leverage and will defeat VD's Courner route. Nothing to see here for Kap. He needs to quickly adjust his eye level to the curl-flat defender (blue). Blue is now facing the Curl-Flat concept coming at him.


If blue shades towards, Miller, then rifle it in to Boldin. If blue shades towards Boldin, then target Miller. Easy peasy. Again, it's a rhythm throw. Once the 5 step drop is completed, the routes will begin to break down. Boldin can't get any more open standing there after completing his Curl. Miller can't keep running to the flat or he'll go out of bounds. The window to the backside Curl (Crabs) is about to close. Form this picture, it looks like Kap is still waiting for the Corner route to magically become open. Boldin is well bracketed, the correct throw here is to Miller. If led properly with the pass, he may net minimal RAC.


The Spot route combination is now dead. Kap has not executed his assignment on the play. If the throw to the flat (Miller) nets 2-3 yards, so be it. Tip your hat to the defense and go play 2nd down.

miller in the flat for a 4-5 yard gain is there easy. this f**king guy smh.

What I'd like to know is the reason for Kaep's reluctancy to hit the flat when it's open, is it the system? Has he developed some kind of go for the home run mentality? Someone mentioned earlier of his ability to complete similar throws on the run as above (but in MUCH more plausible situations), and that is true, he frequently had a bailout throw he'd make just about every game. Maybe it's in his nature to just try and create even when the RIGHT play is in front of him? His ability to run certainly affects his decision-making, maybe he feels like he can run and run away from defensive linemen until something opens up. I'd hope JH would stress the dangers of this (if it weren't obvious enough), but I do believe it's in his nature to try and create more so than keep it simple. It also seems like the system does try to convert him into a dropback QB, which he isn't. He's no dummy (despite his recent play), the guy can make plays, I just wish the simplicities of playing QB (throwing the ball away, checking down, being... well the word hurts, but CONSERVATIVE). With his reckless style of play, he didn't seem to turnover the ball as much when we first were introduced to his play, but this year has been entirely different.

Listen, I understand the system plays a HUGE role in his recent downplay, and it's like some kind of programming that's to convert him into a different player instead of natural development. He seems reluctant to run, to make simple checkdowns, and is missing his throws pretty badly.

I just wish that when he's on the field, he could come to the conclusion that taking what the defense gives you isn't the worst thing in the world.

Do you guys not see the pressure that Tuck brings after Gore fails on his attempt to block him. Tuck causes Kap to scramble left making it unable to hit Miller in the flat.

The main point is taking what the D is giving you on any given play.
Receivers covered, Franks block was weak
check down to Miller for a few yards
2-7

instead Kap is forcing plays that are not there
turnover that turns into 3 points for Oakland

on the first play of the game
that's unacceptable

I see no rhythm from Kap, he seems to be holding onto the ball to long here (once again). The elite QB's would have that ball out once there back foot hits on there last drop step. Kap gets to his last step and becomes confused and starts add-libing (sp). I almost think the correct call here was to throw the ball out of bounds and start fresh on second down. He is almost always looking at the pass rush instead of realizing that; if he gets the ball out on time his recievers would be open and the pass rush would be irrelevant! He was also completely unaware of where the FS was when he over threw that ball.