Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Think you might be a bit backwards there. First you come to the team with a WCO foundation. Then you draft a QB who fits it. Drafting CK should have been a pretty good indicator we don't run a WCO system here. 3 years later we still aren't. Soooo how does CK make this imaginary WCO work again?
A vertical passing attack still uses WCO timing principles. It's just attacking a different area of the field than a WCO. The father of vertical attacks, in my opinion, was Al Davis. He was a student of Sid Gilman who was the father of the timed passing offense. Al attacked from the short, to shallow, to deep. WCO attacks from left to right. (Or vica versa) but the point is it attacks the short to midrange from the LOS.
Harbaugh has a pretty well developed passing attack prior to becoming the HC of the 49ers, in my opinion. He's had extensive experience in the Tom Landry Motion offense under Ditka, the Infante sight adjustment offense (I think that was when he was with the colts), and of course the WCO with Seifert. Trestman was Jim's superior while coaching QB's under Calahan who coached under Gruden. Trestman has deep roots in the WCO with Seifert.
The point I'm making is that Harbaugh *has* the WCO foundations, the principles, the plays in his possession already way before he drafted Colin. Drafting Colin - the issue was *development.* A guy like Luck or Wilson were already *developed.* So going back to the WCO passing foundations beginning with the QB, Colin is still under development. A guy like Colin has the raw physical skills to work in *any* offense. He'd be at home in Terry Bradshaw's offense, or in Shannahans one cut and go offense, or in Walsh's offense - *after* he's been developed. The problem currently is he's still under *development.* Hence my point is that the WCO starts with the QB. The last 3 years we've had inconsistent passing offenses because of the *QB* being in development and not yet a finished product. The vision is that Colin can be an Aaron Rodgers. He's still a long way from that right now, but he's moving in that direction at, in my opinion, in an unprecedented pace for a freakishly talented guy.
"Timing" being the operative word (which is pretty much alleviated from shotgun formation). WCO does have several deeper route designs (post pattern) but they are NOT the foundation of an entire passing game (or offensive philosophy) and the result is us going backwards on first downs often. In fact, typical WCO designs have a high-low route combination built in most often...first, check the high primary receiver, the secondary, then the TE and then the check-down and all be available at different periods in the play and progression-reads, most designed to get the ball out under 3 seconds and all timed to the QB's drop-backs from under C (3-5-7 step drops). If this was a WCO, first downs would be a top priority focus. RB's would play a significant part in the passing game, as would TE's. The TE's would rarely, if ever used as "deep threats" but more as outlets for the QB if the primary receiver wasn't available, they'd find more soft zones and go (ala Vance McDonald vs. Davis), etc. Most designs are focused on the easiest passes for the QB which focus more on the middle of the field...we rely on intermediate-deeper passes to the sidelines and several go-routes all running patterns at the same distance with an all-or-nothing mentality so often and very low %. The WCO is high %. The short game is rarely emphasized as a primary target and even if used, the RB is often times used to BLOCK downfield for CK vs. being an actual pass catching outlet option. Our OL is built more for power runs (Bo Schemblacher) and the FB is sparingly used. Just about any way you slice it, this is the Anti-WCO and CK couldn't have been more Anti-WCO when he was drafted (re: skill set and strengths and experience).
Yes, overall, over the years, Roman has built a playbook that we all call the "hodge podge" offense which basically means, it's a conglomerate of 5,000 different play designs from 12 dozen types of offenses including the ones he added specifically for CK re: the Pistol from a mentorship he did just after we drafted CK. HaRoman have been trying to build an offense around CK's big arm, scrambling ability when that intermediate-deeper one-read isn't there, his ad lib abilities, etc. The problem is, each week it's essentially a brand new offense installed...but one with no real
foundation. Our offense does not seem like a precision, fine-tuned machine that has been practiced to perfection. It seems like most of the time they barely have time to install the new offense each week.
This may be the source of many of our offensive philosophy-differences and personally, that's totally cool. Now that I understand where you're coming from (WCO with a QB-centric offense), your comments make more sense.
I agree that CK is still a work in progress but in a non-QB-centric offense (200 yards passing a game) and the limited number of passes we actually run per game compared to others, he's growing at a much slower rate which would be expected and more importantly, what is he growing into? What IS the foundation of this offensive system? Are HaRoman trying to train him to be a better two-read PA QB with good athleticism in our intermediate-deeper sideline passing game to compliment (200 yards) a power running game (hence Hyde over a top-notch WR)?
Either way, let's not derail this thread too much more. PM. It's time to focus on the "other" family right now. Happy Thanksgiving Geidi!
that was my point.
I'd be *more* than stoked if you were wrong. 
I'd be *more* than stoked if you were wrong.