NY Giants coaches film analysis

Ok, I'm not trying to make this into a Kap sucks thread or excuse Roman from blame. As to my assertion about leadership - here's where it comes from:

What you see is time and again, when we have a negative play on offense - it's almost always a drive killer. A.J. McCarron talked about this with Alabama this year. He said that they can never recover from a negative play on offense because they don't have any leaders on that side of the ball. You also hear that talked a lot about from former players, that when they had a solid leader at QB, they always knew that they could come out of any hole. Our guys seem to fold when anything negative happens.

That's what I saw in the first half. We had 3rd and long at the end of all our drives with Gore's fumble being the exception. Out of 4 3rd and longs we had 2 missed, open receivers by CK, 1 terrible throw and a play designed against man-coverage when the Giants ran cover 6 zone(I think that's what Thl was talking about when he said bad play design). If 1 of 4 is play design - that's not the O-Coord.

In the 2nd half: We had drops, missed blocks on runs and poor pass pro.

What I see is guys not playing at a level I've seen them play at for the past 2 years. Do we win by play design all the time? No. But, do we have plays where timing between QB and WR are off just a bit, where guys who are normally good blockers blow a block, our QB miss a throw that he normally makes? Yeah. When you have those issues you have to ask - who's keeping these guys accountable on the field?

Good leaders - in sports and any other area, elevate the performance level of people around them. They know how to spurn people on to give their best at all times and can get a group of people to be better than the sum of its parts. I see an offense that is lesser than the sum of its parts. On paper - we should be a top 5 offense. But we're not. If I saw our coord consistently putting our guys in bad positions or constantly getting overmatched by the d-coord of the other team, I'd lay it at his feet. But, when you have blue chip players playing piss poor football - you have to ask where is the leadership??

I'll be able to show examples once my internet comes back up. Right now, we have an area wide outage and I'm posting this via a mobile hotspot. So, I'm not going to use all my mobile data to grab screenshots for breakdowns. Once our internet gets up and running again I'll be able to show more things about what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

NC, I would think Johnny and THL have earned enough credibility for us to wait for their posting of coach's film as to reasons why. Maybe this game had NYG show some obvious looks that could allow Kap to check but he made the incorrect check or maybe he missed a lot of possible targets.

Credibility in NFL concepts does not = correct analysis. Lets all please remember that, but it also doesn't mean incorrect either. Along with NC and everyone on the zone, I have a ton of respect for the work and effort they have put forth to educate fans… but again don't confuse that with infallible analysis free of bias. There is subjectivity to any account of a game, which provides us with (hopefully) meaningful discussion.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
We won the battle in the most important stat - win/loss. But, that's not to say there weren't a lot of things that need to improve.

This was a tale of two football teams - on the same team......

The defense looked like a championship caliber team that played together as a team and executed one of the best games I've seen in a while.
On the other hand, the offense failed to take advantage of 6 turnovers by the opposing team(5 picks and a failed 4th down conversion). The hard part in all of this is finding where the fault is. There was a marked difference in causation from the 1st half to the 2nd half - I'll dive into that in a little bit.

The extra noteworthy:
Chris Borland really, really impressed me this week. It wasn't just the INT's, it was his all around game. What I saw him lacking in the last couple weeks - mainly, his ability against guards in the run game, he excelled in this week. He was VIOLENT at the POA. There was one play in particular where the Giants ran a simple dive play up the middle at him. He diagnosed the play very quickly and filled the hole so hard that he knocked the guard back into the running back and the play got stuffed for no gain. The guy plays with a very high motor and has absolutely no hesitation in the way he plays. That's the part that's surprised me most of all. Most rookies or inexperienced guys will show a fair amount of hesitation in their play. They want to make sure they have read the play right and are in the right place; so they tend to react a little slower and are a little hesitant that what they're seeing is what they're seeing. Borland plays without any hesitation at all. When he sees it, he goes and gets it. I love the way he fills in the run game too, he did a great job of holding his own against guards and his technique is VERY good in taking on blockers. He keeps his hips and shoulders square at all times with his eyes on the target through the play so that he's always in position to either make the play or redirect to his help.

The passing game: To me, the passing game was very sub-par this game. There were definite plays to be made, but, for one reason or another we didn't execute. For all the talk and work that was put into the passing game this year, it was very disappointing to watch. In the end - this falls squarely on the shoulders of CK...

I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

My agenda only came from the frustration with our offense. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what's happening on each play, but, like people say all the time.

It's a QB driven league and, in the end, that comes down to your QB.

3rd down is the money down - where QB's make their money - CK was awful on 3rd down in that game.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

NC, I would think Johnny and THL have earned enough credibility for us to wait for their posting of coach's film as to reasons why. Maybe this game had NYG show some obvious looks that could allow Kap to check but he made the incorrect check or maybe he missed a lot of possible targets.

It's like our offense after 4 years and 2 QB's. How much more do you need to see? Esp. when it's in black and white. At least qualify the start of these threads by saying, "I come from the school of thought where the QB can make or break an offense no matter WHAT offense that is." That way fans can at least have perspective from start. And many will agree...and those that don't can at least respect the work that is done despite disagreeing with that angle.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

Riiight, just because we don't grab a pitchfork to join your "fire Roman" mob, we have a bias and an agenda. If you missed it, just above I said that there was a play, and I have already seen more plays, where I don't like the play design/call. This isn't the first, nor the last time that I have called out the coaches. I don't fully agree that it's all on Kap either, but that doesn't mean jonnydel has a bias. If anything he is one of the most objective posters on this forum. You know what's bias? Seeing the punt coverage unit take the field and bumping the Fire Roman thread. Hang on NC, you will get to see cut ups that will make you wett as I put the coaches on blast. It will come in due time.

^^^ how perfect was THAT timing!

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

Riiight, just because we don't grab a pitchfork to join your "fire Roman" mob, we have a bias and an agenda. If you missed it, just above I said that there was a play, and I have already seen more plays, where I don't like the play design/call. This isn't the first, nor the last time that I have called out the coaches. I don't fully agree that it's all on Kap either, but that doesn't mean jonnydel has a bias. If anything he is one of the most objective posters on this forum. You know what's bias? Seeing the punt coverage unit take the field and bumping the Fire Roman thread. Hang on NC, you will get to see cut ups that will make you wett as I put the coaches on blast. It will come in due time.

not sure if you do, i don't remember seeing them, but could you note the play before the break down of the play for Offensive plays, thanks

Seems like after a great play gain, we follow it with stupid play

I agree that Kaerpnick needs to become more consistent and everything else will fall into place for this Offense. Vernon Davis also needs to make more effort on passes that are not perfectly thrown. But the Offensive coaches are under performing as well compared to the defensive coaches on this team.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, I'm not trying to make this into a Kap sucks thread or excuse Roman from blame. As to my assertion about leadership - here's where it comes from:

What you see is time and again, when we have a negative play on offense - it's almost always a drive killer. A.J. McCarron talked about this with Alabama this year. He said that they can never recover from a negative play on offense because they don't have any leaders on that side of the ball. You also hear that talked a lot about from former players, that when they had a solid leader at QB, they always knew that they could come out of any hole. Our guys seem to fold when anything negative happens.

That's what I saw in the first half. We had 3rd and long at the end of all our drives with Gore's fumble being the exception. Out of 4 3rd and longs we had 2 missed, open receivers by CK, 1 terrible throw and a play designed against man-coverage when the Giants ran cover 6 zone(I think that's what Thl was talking about when he said bad play design). If 1 of 4 is play design - that's not the O-Coord.

In the 2nd half: We had drops, missed blocks on runs and poor pass pro.

What I see is guys not playing at a level I've seen them play at for the past 2 years. Do we win by play design all the time? No. But, do we have plays where timing between QB and WR are off just a bit, where guys who are normally good blockers blow a block, our QB miss a throw that he normally makes? Yeah. When you have those issues you have to ask - who's keeping these guys accountable on the field?

Good leaders - in sports and any other area, elevate the performance level of people around them. They know how to spurn people on to give their best at all times and can get a group of people to be better than the sum of its parts. I see an offense that is lesser than the sum of its parts. On paper - we should be a top 5 offense. But we're not. If I saw our coord consistently putting our guys in bad positions or constantly getting overmatched by the d-coord of the other team, I'd lay it at his feet. But, when you have blue chip players playing piss poor football - you have to ask where is the leadership??

I'll be able to show examples once my internet comes back up. Right now, we have an area wide outage and I'm posting this via a mobile hotspot. So, I'm not going to use all my mobile data to grab screenshots for breakdowns. Once our internet gets up and running again I'll be able to show more things about what I'm talking about.

shouldn't it be a combined effort? doesn't that mean that both things are probably true? Roman/Jim aren't holding them accountable enough and they haven't made it clear Kap is the guy that has the ability to hold you accountable as well? If they're constantly playing piss poor football I don't see how you can say that falls at the qb's feet like he is being paid to coach as well.
I don't think he's there YET with everything he needs but I wouldn't put blame on him solely for things like Anthony getting beat constantly be a speed rush or Vernon not being able to catch with his hands 10 years into his career.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
We won the battle in the most important stat - win/loss. But, that's not to say there weren't a lot of things that need to improve.

This was a tale of two football teams - on the same team......

The defense looked like a championship caliber team that played together as a team and executed one of the best games I've seen in a while.
On the other hand, the offense failed to take advantage of 6 turnovers by the opposing team(5 picks and a failed 4th down conversion). The hard part in all of this is finding where the fault is. There was a marked difference in causation from the 1st half to the 2nd half - I'll dive into that in a little bit.

The extra noteworthy:
Chris Borland really, really impressed me this week. It wasn't just the INT's, it was his all around game. What I saw him lacking in the last couple weeks - mainly, his ability against guards in the run game, he excelled in this week. He was VIOLENT at the POA. There was one play in particular where the Giants ran a simple dive play up the middle at him. He diagnosed the play very quickly and filled the hole so hard that he knocked the guard back into the running back and the play got stuffed for no gain. The guy plays with a very high motor and has absolutely no hesitation in the way he plays. That's the part that's surprised me most of all. Most rookies or inexperienced guys will show a fair amount of hesitation in their play. They want to make sure they have read the play right and are in the right place; so they tend to react a little slower and are a little hesitant that what they're seeing is what they're seeing. Borland plays without any hesitation at all. When he sees it, he goes and gets it. I love the way he fills in the run game too, he did a great job of holding his own against guards and his technique is VERY good in taking on blockers. He keeps his hips and shoulders square at all times with his eyes on the target through the play so that he's always in position to either make the play or redirect to his help.

The passing game: To me, the passing game was very sub-par this game. There were definite plays to be made, but, for one reason or another we didn't execute. For all the talk and work that was put into the passing game this year, it was very disappointing to watch. In the end - this falls squarely on the shoulders of CK...

I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

My agenda only came from the frustration with our offense. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what's happening on each play, but, like people say all the time.

It's a QB driven league and, in the end, that comes down to your QB.

3rd down is the money down - where QB's make their money - CK was awful on 3rd down in that game.

If it's hard to pinpoint then don't pinpoint the blame lol. I think it's a collective effort from what I've seen. combination of missed blocks, bad reads, drops...and especially drive extending drops where everything was done right but the catch.. and play calling.
it's everyone.

Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ how perfect was THAT timing!

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

NC, I would think Johnny and THL have earned enough credibility for us to wait for their posting of coach's film as to reasons why. Maybe this game had NYG show some obvious looks that could allow Kap to check but he made the incorrect check or maybe he missed a lot of possible targets.

Credibility in NFL concepts does not = correct analysis. Lets all please remember that, but it also doesn't mean incorrect either. Along with NC and everyone on the zone, I have a ton of respect for the work and effort they have put forth to educate fans… but again don't confuse that with infallible analysis free of bias. There is subjectivity to any account of a game, which provides us with (hopefully) meaningful discussion.

This thread is always my favorite thread. Both JD and thl put a ton of work into it, and if anything, *all that work* has to be respected. Opinions - everybody has 'em and they all stink, but the factual and film breakdown analysis that they both do really illuminates a part of the game that I don't always see. Personally, I can't wait, but area wide internet outages is what it is. Just gotta be patient.

Originally posted by GORO:
I agree that Kaerpnick needs to become more consistent and everything else will fall into place for this Offense. Vernon Davis also needs to make more effort on passes that are not perfectly thrown. But the Offensive coaches are under performing as well compared to the defensive coaches on this team.

Jim and Roman aren't consistent in the play calling. This offense needs a real rhythm. Whatever it is we're going to go with for the week we need it called in a way to get everybody into a rhythm. The playbook is perfect for this team..all we need is a rhythm. I will continue to go back to the 2nd half of the Atlanta Falcons game last year and the 1st half of the Cardinals game. That was our offense in a rhythm. That was play calling that we need every week. We had those 2 teams completely confused and off balance. We need to get that back instead of teams knowing what's going on before we do certain things or general limitations on the types of thing we will and wont' run that help defenses gear up for us better.

Just need a rhythm that's all I ask. It's all I want.

Our OC sucks, we have gone away with any type of TE product. even lesser TE from worst teams still throw to their TEs, we have abandoned it like it was the plague especially on 3rd down

This play calling sucks and doesn't play to our strengths , easy as that. Our 3rd down sucked as they were pretty much all deep pass that i can remember

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

Riiight, just because we don't grab a pitchfork to join your "fire Roman" mob, we have a bias and an agenda. If you missed it, just above I said that there was a play, and I have already seen more plays, where I don't like the play design/call. This isn't the first, nor the last time that I have called out the coaches. I don't fully agree that it's all on Kap either, but that doesn't mean jonnydel has a bias. If anything he is one of the most objective posters on this forum. You know what's bias? Seeing the punt coverage unit take the field and bumping the Fire Roman thread. Hang on NC, you will get to see cut ups that will make you wett as I put the coaches on blast. It will come in due time.

I should not have tied you into that comment but fans see you both, as one. I know you've worked very hard on branching out and looking not at just the end results, but context and big picture and association of events that lead to a fail or success of such still shots/gifs/plays. I respect that. You know that.

And nobody was out with a pitch fork after year 1...a few after the Superbowl, a few put theirs down d/t the WR personnel excuse after year 3 but now, the pitch forks are out in full force for a reason (even in the media). It's been 4 years now, under 2 different QB's, with incredible talent on offense and WE'VE REGRESSED.

So yes, forgive the fans who see CK, the WR's, the OL in pass protection, mental lapses, concentration issues, perpectual patterns as the end result of a piss poor offensive philosophy, play book, poor coaching and lack of attention to detail, little to no accountability, etc.

Some would have you believe that if you put Peyton Manning in this offense, we'd suddenly be a top 5 offense. Fine. That's great. Some fans here would say if you put Manning in this offense, he'd be physically carted off on a stretcher after week 2 (meaning CK makes this offense at least move forward).

But if you're going to claim objectivity, you need to show it. I know even the biggest anti-HaRoman fans (see throughout this thread right now) will at least admit when CK effs up, a RB failed in pass protection, the OL struggled, bone-headed penalties, TO's, etc, cost us.

Some of the posts in here have tried to balance this low-level analysis with out with context but, ironically, these have been completely ignored in here.

How about we start with every first down play given that we're still 30th in the league on first down production puting our entire offense behind the 8-ball on 2nd and 3rd downs.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Manning:

Year one: 12th offense. 3-13 record. 26 TDs. 29 INTs.

Year two: 4th offense. 13-3 record. 26 TDs. 15 INTs.

Marvin Harrion: 1996-1998: 196 (65 per) catches for 2478 (826 per) yards and 21 TDs (7 per). Manning's second year: 115 catches for 1663 yards and 12 TDs.

Manning = real NFL offensive coaching staffs trying to put him in the best position possible

Niners QBs = Coaches playing the childs game of putting square pegs in round holes

Tom Moore's offense were 13 or worse in 7 of his 10 years including 18 or worse in 4 of those years before having Manning as his QB. He was also an offensive consultant with the Jets in 2011 (25th ranked offense) and Tennessee in 2012 (26th offense). He is currently with Arizona who has yet to produced a top 10 offense in the two years he has been there.