NY Giants coaches film analysis

Originally posted by SFFanSince72:

Originally posted by SFFanSince72:
THL408 or Jonnydel,

I appreciate everything you guys do in these posts. I know its been said a million times before, but it deserves to be said again because of all of the time and money (for the NFL film package) that you put in. But back to the discussion about football.

When I rewatched this game via DVR (so just the TV broadcast) it did appear that Kap targeted Crabtree slightly more than other recievers. Certainly this was not exclusive as there were the throws to VD and at least one to SJ and one attempt to Lloyd. But as we saw in the most recently broken down play, Kap targeted Crabtree on the deep out to the left, which was a much harder throw than the hook or curl (never remember which is which) to Lloyd to his left.

So my question is do you think that Crabtree's locker room comments after the Saint's game played into Kap's mind in where to try to go with the ball?

If so, this to me is the massive danger of the media. If so, does this mean that Aldon or Lynch are gonna be held out in favor of Brooks, just so he doesn't get his feelings hurt more? (rhetorical question)

I think we would all like to see some breakdowns of the passes that VD was targeted on. Many of us thought that on a few of those throws that VD only gave half an effort on his route. There was of course his injury and maybe that is still bothering him or mentally affecting his game, but I can't help but wonder if outside considerations on his part are affecting his effort. (Things such as contract concerns he had before the start of the season, how he feels he is being used in the offense, how he feels about his position coach or some of the other coaches -- has VD come out in TOTAL support of Harbaugh...could he be the leak/complainer, etc). I have also felt like perhaps this may have been the case with Boone's poor play throughout the season, but I digress.

I wanted to repost this so that maybe THL408 or Jonnydel might have a chance to comment on some of these questions

1. I have no idea lol....It's possible.
2. I'll be surprised if Brooks' playtime increases. I've mentioned it since the start of the season, but, I'll be shocked if Brooks is on the team next year. His play has digressed since last year. He's not making as many plays and looks slower in pass rush. I see him as the rotational kind of guy with Lynch that Haralson was with Smith his rookie year.
3. I'll touch on that later today.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It reminds me of something Deon Sanders said to Steve Mariucci when they were talking about the day Terrell Owens broke the record for most catches in a game. It was on "Jerry Rice" day in San Fran. Deon said to Mooch, "how could you call 20 pass plays to Terrell Owens on Jerry Rice day, of all days?!?!?" Mooch responded, "Hey, I wasn't the one making the throws, so you can't blame me for that"

I understand the point you're trying to make but it's a bit silly.

Garcia making choices in going to Jerry Rice who the Bears were hell bent on stopping that day or going to some scrub named Terrell Owens vs Kap going for bigger plays(which may or may not be what the coaches are preaching for him to do) vs taking shorter easier completions.

I'm not trying to make a silly point(even though the medium through which I made it was silly) it's that a coach can call any play he wants, but it's the QB who makes the decision of where to throw the ball - the coach can't make that decision for him.

BTW Terrell Owens was not a scrub at that point in his career.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Defenses adjusted...look at what Lynch is doing. Wilson will take 150 yards and 2 TDs from Lynch every day.

Edit: This discussion is totally off the rails. Just wanted to throw that in.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Defenses are being forced to pick their poison. To shut down Wilson in the passing game, they are leaving gaping running lanes for Lynch. Wilson is also getting it done on the ground, which shows that the defense is not able to play the run effectively. If the defense committed to shutting down the run, it seems likely that Wilson's production through the air would improve.

This is not connected to the discussion of Wilson being a good leader last season.

Bevell had more to do with the Hawks success then Wilson leadership IMO. He set up the offense to fit Wilson strengths and played to them at all times.

I'll just say this about Kap, and the critisizms of his game...

Were still talking about a guy who has just over 2 full seasons worth of starts in his career. Try to put things into perspective. Round up all the greatest QB of the last 30 years and see how they looked after 2 full seasons. Were any of them a finished product? Kap is going through his growing pains like any other talented QB, he just has an open title window and a great team, so people are getting impatient.

Also, Kap's OL has been AWFUL at pass blocking this year. No QB is going to have success with bad pass protection. Look at our team pass blocking scores on PFF. (Far right column, sorted from best to worst in red.)

So, someone wondered how we were doing on 1st down production for the year. Here you go (if you want to skip the details, see "Overall" at the end):

Dallas Game:
2nd and 8 at SF 42
2nd and 7 at DAL 43
2nd and 11 at DAL 33
2nd and 10 at SF 36
2nd and 9 at SF 48
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 47
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 12 at SF 34

Of the 16 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
9 of the 16 times we had >7 to go averaging 9.7 yards left to go

Bears Game:
2nd and 8 at CHI 8
2nd and 10 at SF 46
2nd and 10 at SF 46
2nd and 10 at CHI 14
2nd and 10 at CHI 30
2nd and 8 at CHI 8
2nd and 10 at SF 10
2nd and 10 at CHI 30
2nd and 7 at SF 26
2nd and 15 at SF 32
2nd and 16 at SF 14
2nd and 7 at SF 45
2nd and 8 at CHI 43
2nd and 12 at CHI 20

Of the 20 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
14 of the 20 times we had >7 to go averaging 10.1 yards left to go

Cardinals Game:
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 10 at SF 45
2nd and 9 at ARI 42
2nd and 13 at SF 29
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 7 at SF 8
2nd and 10 at SF 19

Of the 22 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
7 of the 22 times we had >7 to go averaging 9.6 yards left to go

Eagles Game:
2nd and 7 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 8 at SF 37
2nd and 14 at PHI 27
2nd and 8 at PHI 10
2nd and 18 at PHI 20
2nd and 17 at SF 45
2nd and 8 at SF 35
2nd and 8 at SF 22
2nd and 7 at PHI 37
2nd and 15 at PHI 28
2nd and 11 at PHI 12
2nd and 12 at PHI 29
2nd and 9 at SF 27
2nd and 7 at PHI 48
2nd and 9 at SF 42
2nd and 13 at PHI 34
2nd and 7 at SF 5

Of the 26 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
18 of the 26 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go

Rams Game:
2nd and 10 at KC 18
2nd and 9 at KC 39
2nd and 8 at KC 27
2nd and 10 at SF 21
2nd and 9 at SF 24
2nd and 17 at KC 27
2nd and 8 at SF 22
2nd and 10 at SF 32
2nd and 10 at SF 32
2nd and 8 at SF 47
2nd and 7 at KC 41
2nd and 7 at KC 28
2nd and 10 at KC 10
2nd and 11 at KC 42

Of the 22 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
14 of the 22 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 9.6 yards to go

Broncos Game:
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 8 at DEN 48
2nd and 10 at DEN 39
2nd and 11 at SF 19
2nd and 18 at SF 5
2nd and 7 at DEN 44
2nd and 8 at DEN 23
2nd and 19 at SF 27
2nd and 24 at SF 22
2nd and 11 at SF 29
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 14 at SF 36
2nd and 9 at DEN 35
2nd and 8 at DEN 22
2nd and 11 at DEN 11
2nd and 10 at DEN 45
2nd and 10 at DEN 34
2nd and 10 at DEN 20

Of the 26 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
20 of the 26 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 11.4 yards to go

Rams Game:
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 10 at STL 21
2nd and 17 at SF 29
2nd and 10 at SF 35
2nd and 7 at STL 32
2nd and 9 at STL 49
2nd and 10 at STL 34
2nd and 11 at SF 19
2nd and 7 at SF 33
2nd and 7 at STL 47
2nd and 19 at STL 43
2nd and 11 at SF 5
2nd and 10 at SF 37

Of the 20 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
13 of the 20 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 11.2 yards to go

Saints Game:
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 8
2nd and 10
2nd and 17
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 9
2nd and 19
2nd and 7
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 10

Of the 25 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
17 of the 25 times we had >7 to go averaging 10.6 yards left to go

Giant's Game:
2nd and 18
2nd and 17
2nd and 11
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 11
2nd and 10
2nd and 9
2nd and 10
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 9

Of the 19 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
12 of the 19 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go


Overall:
So overall on 2nd downs, 63% of the time (124 of 196) we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.3 yards to go. In short, 2/3rds of the time we're going BACKWARDS on 1st downs and putting ouselves in 2nd and longs, which as you know, often times snowballs from there. Check out the individual games as well (total # of 2nd down opportunities, against good pass rush teams, familiar foes, etc.) and see if you can note any other trends. Either way, this is extremely alarming and goes well beyond CK, the OL pass protection, RB's, WR drops and the myriad of other "execution" excuses we use in here when looking at the micro-level. A very large portion of this comes down to offensive philosophy, play selection trending and coaching. If we can see these obvious trends as fans, imagine what the DC is game planning for!

So Seattle's offense is basically unstoppable. You have to pick your poison. Damn .their defense and heir special teams for ruining their season so far.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Defenses adjusted...look at what Lynch is doing. Wilson will take 150 yards and 2 TDs from Lynch every day.

Edit: This discussion is totally off the rails. Just wanted to throw that in.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Defenses are being forced to pick their poison. To shut down Wilson in the passing game, they are leaving gaping running lanes for Lynch. Wilson is also getting it done on the ground, which shows that the defense is not able to play the run effectively. If the defense committed to shutting down the run, it seems likely that Wilson's production through the air would improve.

This is not connected to the discussion of Wilson being a good leader last season.

Bevell had more to do with the Hawks success then Wilson leadership IMO. He set up the offense to fit Wilson strengths and played to them at all times.

It's certainly possible that Bevell has a significant role to play there. I don't follow the Seahawks closely enough to know. However, I do live in Seattle and constantly hear fans complaining about Bevell as a coordinator, much like we complain about Roman.

I'm pretty sure Wilson was a leader in college, but evidence from people who followed his collegiate career would be helpful here.

Originally posted by genus49:
Thanks for breaking down your thoughts...the problem I see with that are the routes we had called. I get where you're going with him looking to the right first but what would be the point of that on that given playcall? Vernon wouldn't have even made his cut yet, Lloyd wasn't open.

It's one thing to know based on the coverage where you have better matchups but you also need to have the right routes called to take advantage. If he looks right post snap Vernon isn't open and the defense would react to him looking that way.

So once again I'm back to how can you put all the blame just on Kap?

I put the blame on him on that play because, he had a play to be made. VD's route gets a first down(both I and Thl belive that). Now, if you don't believe that his route gets a first down(you're free to have your opinion) then, yes, I can see how it's hard to put that at Kap's feet. But, if, like me, you think VD's route was the place to throw the ball, then it's at his feet throughout the whole sequence of the play.

I'm not saying he sucks because of it. But, it's an area that has to improve for our offense to improve and get through the next barrier. If he gets through this barrier, I truly think our offense will explode.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
So Seattle's offense is basically unstoppable. You have to pick your poison. Damn .their defense and heir special teams for ruining their season so far.

When you're ready to stop twisting my words and to get back on topic, let me know.

Originally posted by NCommand:
So, someone wondered how we were doing on 1st down production for the year. Here you go (if you want to skip the details, see "Overall" at the end):

Dallas Game:
2nd and 8 at SF 42
2nd and 7 at DAL 43
2nd and 11 at DAL 33
2nd and 10 at SF 36
2nd and 9 at SF 48
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 47
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 12 at SF 34

Of the 16 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
9 of the 16 times we had >7 to go averaging 9.7 yards left to go

Bears Game:
2nd and 8 at CHI 8
2nd and 10 at SF 46
2nd and 10 at SF 46
2nd and 10 at CHI 14
2nd and 10 at CHI 30
2nd and 8 at CHI 8
2nd and 10 at SF 10
2nd and 10 at CHI 30
2nd and 7 at SF 26
2nd and 15 at SF 32
2nd and 16 at SF 14
2nd and 7 at SF 45
2nd and 8 at CHI 43
2nd and 12 at CHI 20

Of the 20 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
14 of the 20 times we had >7 to go averaging 10.1 yards left to go

Cardinals Game:
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 10 at SF 45
2nd and 9 at ARI 42
2nd and 13 at SF 29
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 7 at SF 8
2nd and 10 at SF 19

Of the 22 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
7 of the 22 times we had >7 to go averaging 9.6 yards left to go

Eagles Game:
2nd and 7 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 8 at SF 37
2nd and 14 at PHI 27
2nd and 8 at PHI 10
2nd and 18 at PHI 20
2nd and 17 at SF 45
2nd and 8 at SF 35
2nd and 8 at SF 22
2nd and 7 at PHI 37
2nd and 15 at PHI 28
2nd and 11 at PHI 12
2nd and 12 at PHI 29
2nd and 9 at SF 27
2nd and 7 at PHI 48
2nd and 9 at SF 42
2nd and 13 at PHI 34
2nd and 7 at SF 5

Of the 26 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
18 of the 26 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go

Rams Game:
2nd and 10 at KC 18
2nd and 9 at KC 39
2nd and 8 at KC 27
2nd and 10 at SF 21
2nd and 9 at SF 24
2nd and 17 at KC 27
2nd and 8 at SF 22
2nd and 10 at SF 32
2nd and 10 at SF 32
2nd and 8 at SF 47
2nd and 7 at KC 41
2nd and 7 at KC 28
2nd and 10 at KC 10
2nd and 11 at KC 42

Of the 22 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
14 of the 22 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 9.6 yards to go

Broncos Game:
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 8 at DEN 48
2nd and 10 at DEN 39
2nd and 11 at SF 19
2nd and 18 at SF 5
2nd and 7 at DEN 44
2nd and 8 at DEN 23
2nd and 19 at SF 27
2nd and 24 at SF 22
2nd and 11 at SF 29
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 14 at SF 36
2nd and 9 at DEN 35
2nd and 8 at DEN 22
2nd and 11 at DEN 11
2nd and 10 at DEN 45
2nd and 10 at DEN 34
2nd and 10 at DEN 20

Of the 26 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
20 of the 26 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 11.4 yards to go

Rams Game:
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 10 at STL 21
2nd and 17 at SF 29
2nd and 10 at SF 35
2nd and 7 at STL 32
2nd and 9 at STL 49
2nd and 10 at STL 34
2nd and 11 at SF 19
2nd and 7 at SF 33
2nd and 7 at STL 47
2nd and 19 at STL 43
2nd and 11 at SF 5
2nd and 10 at SF 37

Of the 20 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
13 of the 20 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 11.2 yards to go

Saints Game:
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 8
2nd and 10
2nd and 17
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 9
2nd and 19
2nd and 7
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 10

Of the 25 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
17 of the 25 times we had >7 to go averaging 10.6 yards left to go

Giant's Game:
2nd and 18
2nd and 17
2nd and 11
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 11
2nd and 10
2nd and 9
2nd and 10
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 9

Of the 19 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
12 of the 19 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go


Overall:
So overall on 2nd downs, 63% of the time (124 of 196) we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.3 yards to go. In short, 2/3rds of the time we're going BACKWARDS on 1st downs and putting ouselves in 2nd and longs, which as you know, often times snowballs from there. Check out the individual games as well (total # of 2nd down opportunities, against good pass rush teams, familiar foes, etc.) and see if you can note any other trends. Either way, this is extremely alarming and goes well beyond CK, the OL pass protection, RB's, WR drops and the myriad of other "execution" excuses we use in here when looking at the micro-level. A very large portion of this comes down to offensive philosophy, play selection trending and coaching. If we can see these obvious trends as fans, imagine what the DC is game planning for!

For all of that - what would you do in Roman's shoes to increase our production on 1st down???? How would you exploit something in the defense - give concrete examples. How would Norv Turner do it differently? How would Mike McCarthy do it differently?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I put the blame on him on that play because, he had a play to be made. VD's route gets a first down(both I and Thl belive that). Now, if you don't believe that his route gets a first down(you're free to have your opinion) then, yes, I can see how it's hard to put that at Kap's feet. But, if, like me, you think VD's route was the place to throw the ball, then it's at his feet throughout the whole sequence of the play.

I'm not saying he sucks because of it. But, it's an area that has to improve for our offense to improve and get through the next barrier. If he gets through this barrier, I truly think our offense will explode.

Given what happened yes it does look like VD's route gets a first down. However your issue was that Kap wasted time looking to the other side when he should've ran the defense known he wouldn't have anything of worth to that side and look Vernon's way post snap.

The problem I have with that line of thinking is if Kap drops back and looks to Vernon's side right away Vernon has his back to Colin. If he looks there right away then the defense also reacts differently and Vernon will not be as open as he was with the original play.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by genus49:
Thanks for breaking down your thoughts...the problem I see with that are the routes we had called. I get where you're going with him looking to the right first but what would be the point of that on that given playcall? Vernon wouldn't have even made his cut yet, Lloyd wasn't open.

It's one thing to know based on the coverage where you have better matchups but you also need to have the right routes called to take advantage. If he looks right post snap Vernon isn't open and the defense would react to him looking that way.

So once again I'm back to how can you put all the blame just on Kap?

I put the blame on him on that play because, he had a play to be made. VD's route gets a first down(both I and Thl belive that). Now, if you don't believe that his route gets a first down(you're free to have your opinion) then, yes, I can see how it's hard to put that at Kap's feet. But, if, like me, you think VD's route was the place to throw the ball, then it's at his feet throughout the whole sequence of the play.

I'm not saying he sucks because of it. But, it's an area that has to improve for our offense to improve and get through the next barrier. If he gets through this barrier, I truly think our offense will explode.

absolutely agree with this analysis. The TE position really needs to step up in the coming weeks. VD being a decoy is just not going to cut it when we play elite defenses like Seadderall and AZ. We really need production from them.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to make a silly point(even though the medium through which I made it was silly) it's that a coach can call any play he wants, but it's the QB who makes the decision of where to throw the ball - the coach can't make that decision for him.

BTW Terrell Owens was not a scrub at that point in his career.

I thought it was pretty clear I was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So, someone wondered how we were doing on 1st down production for the year. Here you go (if you want to skip the details, see "Overall" at the end):

Dallas Game:
2nd and 8 at SF 42
2nd and 7 at DAL 43
2nd and 11 at DAL 33
2nd and 10 at SF 36
2nd and 9 at SF 48
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 47
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 12 at SF 34

Of the 16 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
9 of the 16 times we had >7 to go averaging 9.7 yards left to go

Bears Game:
2nd and 8 at CHI 8
2nd and 10 at SF 46
2nd and 10 at SF 46
2nd and 10 at CHI 14
2nd and 10 at CHI 30
2nd and 8 at CHI 8
2nd and 10 at SF 10
2nd and 10 at CHI 30
2nd and 7 at SF 26
2nd and 15 at SF 32
2nd and 16 at SF 14
2nd and 7 at SF 45
2nd and 8 at CHI 43
2nd and 12 at CHI 20

Of the 20 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
14 of the 20 times we had >7 to go averaging 10.1 yards left to go

Cardinals Game:
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 10 at SF 45
2nd and 9 at ARI 42
2nd and 13 at SF 29
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 7 at SF 8
2nd and 10 at SF 19

Of the 22 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
7 of the 22 times we had >7 to go averaging 9.6 yards left to go

Eagles Game:
2nd and 7 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 8 at SF 37
2nd and 14 at PHI 27
2nd and 8 at PHI 10
2nd and 18 at PHI 20
2nd and 17 at SF 45
2nd and 8 at SF 35
2nd and 8 at SF 22
2nd and 7 at PHI 37
2nd and 15 at PHI 28
2nd and 11 at PHI 12
2nd and 12 at PHI 29
2nd and 9 at SF 27
2nd and 7 at PHI 48
2nd and 9 at SF 42
2nd and 13 at PHI 34
2nd and 7 at SF 5

Of the 26 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
18 of the 26 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go

Rams Game:
2nd and 10 at KC 18
2nd and 9 at KC 39
2nd and 8 at KC 27
2nd and 10 at SF 21
2nd and 9 at SF 24
2nd and 17 at KC 27
2nd and 8 at SF 22
2nd and 10 at SF 32
2nd and 10 at SF 32
2nd and 8 at SF 47
2nd and 7 at KC 41
2nd and 7 at KC 28
2nd and 10 at KC 10
2nd and 11 at KC 42

Of the 22 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
14 of the 22 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 9.6 yards to go

Broncos Game:
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 8 at DEN 48
2nd and 10 at DEN 39
2nd and 11 at SF 19
2nd and 18 at SF 5
2nd and 7 at DEN 44
2nd and 8 at DEN 23
2nd and 19 at SF 27
2nd and 24 at SF 22
2nd and 11 at SF 29
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 10 at SF 20
2nd and 14 at SF 36
2nd and 9 at DEN 35
2nd and 8 at DEN 22
2nd and 11 at DEN 11
2nd and 10 at DEN 45
2nd and 10 at DEN 34
2nd and 10 at DEN 20

Of the 26 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
20 of the 26 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 11.4 yards to go

Rams Game:
2nd and 9 at SF 21
2nd and 10 at STL 21
2nd and 17 at SF 29
2nd and 10 at SF 35
2nd and 7 at STL 32
2nd and 9 at STL 49
2nd and 10 at STL 34
2nd and 11 at SF 19
2nd and 7 at SF 33
2nd and 7 at STL 47
2nd and 19 at STL 43
2nd and 11 at SF 5
2nd and 10 at SF 37

Of the 20 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
13 of the 20 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 11.2 yards to go

Saints Game:
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 8
2nd and 10
2nd and 17
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 9
2nd and 19
2nd and 7
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 10

Of the 25 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
17 of the 25 times we had >7 to go averaging 10.6 yards left to go

Giant's Game:
2nd and 18
2nd and 17
2nd and 11
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 11
2nd and 10
2nd and 9
2nd and 10
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 9

Of the 19 2nd downs we had this game, here is the breakdown:
12 of the 19 times we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go


Overall:
So overall on 2nd downs, 63% of the time (124 of 196) we had >7 yards to go averaging 10.3 yards to go. In short, 2/3rds of the time we're going BACKWARDS on 1st downs and putting ouselves in 2nd and longs, which as you know, often times snowballs from there. Check out the individual games as well (total # of 2nd down opportunities, against good pass rush teams, familiar foes, etc.) and see if you can note any other trends. Either way, this is extremely alarming and goes well beyond CK, the OL pass protection, RB's, WR drops and the myriad of other "execution" excuses we use in here when looking at the micro-level. A very large portion of this comes down to offensive philosophy, play selection trending and coaching. If we can see these obvious trends as fans, imagine what the DC is game planning for!

For all of that - what would you do in Roman's shoes to increase our production on 1st down???? How would you exploit something in the defense - give concrete examples. How would Norv Turner do it differently? How would Mike McCarthy do it differently?

Good questions jonnydel, and I also would add that the underperformance of the O Line had a lot to do with replacing two centers. Kilgore and Goodwin. Boone's holdout really hurt his consistency and production in the beginning of the year.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

For all of that - what would you do in Roman's shoes to increase our production on 1st down???? How would you exploit something in the defense - give concrete examples. How would Norv Turner do it differently? How would Mike McCarthy do it differently?

More running out of passing formations for one. Not telegraphing runs or playaction pass by formation. Total agree with thl that not running more in spread sets is a big issue.

I actually really liked Roman shifting formations on a few runs at the last minute. Don't need to do all the crazy shifting but doing late formation switching can be effective in moderation.

In terms of first down passing use it instead of 2nd down as the shot down. First play after the Borland pick should've been the TD shot not a short run then a TD shot on 2nd. Use more spread looks that get 1 on 1s. Take advantage of Vance in the short areas of zones instead of him exclusively blocking. He has the body type to shield lbs or safeties in those short areas.

Using screens effectively by practicing them and then hitting teams blitzing on early downs trying to get us in a negative play. Some RB flares as well that get backs involved in pass game.

Probably more but that's off top of my head.