NY Giants coaches film analysis

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Ok, now I'm confused again.....um what do yall consider "leading"?

From earlier in the thread, it came across as some wanted Kap to be more vocal and yall at his teammates for missed blocks or dropped passes.

Um....I don't see Luck or Wilson do that.

There are different ways to lead.....and that can also change as time goes on.

To me, leading means elevating the play of the guys around him. The fact that Wilson got production out of the scrubs they had at WR last season shows leadership. The fact that Luck looks completely at home in his offense and performs at a high level by getting the most out of the guys around him shows leadership.

Can't speak for the rest of the thread...you'll have to ask them.

Here is another example of Kap understanding holes in zone coverage. Again, this is something I look from him in every game because teams are coming with zone coverage a lot. They want to keep their eyes on him because there are occasions he locks on to a target, and because he is such a threat to run.

2Q 2nd & 8

49ers: A variation of Curl-Flat with Miller and Crabs. More like a In-Flat. Designed to attack the orange LB.
NYG: cover3, but the CB on Crabs doesn't bail.


After looking to his right during his dropback, Kap completes his dropback and scans over to his left. Miller's route to the flat will take the orange defender with him.


Crabs pushes off.


Same moment in time as pic above. Crab's is not open, but he will be. Kap is already mid windup.


Another view of the same moment in time. The orange LB follows Miller to the flat opening up a throwing lane to Crabs. The blue LB is occupied by Gore's check release. The yellow area is where Kap will target to as he throws to an open space, before his WR gets there. This is great anticipation in throwing into holes in zone coverage.


Crabs just caught the ball.


+25 yards. Notice how poorly the deep safety plays this as he runs way too far to the sidelines. The 49ers will go back to this play later and it will yield an even better result.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Ok respond to my post then.

It seems the opposite can be said of Wilson.

Pump the brakes bud. I did.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Ok, now I'm confused again.....um what do yall consider "leading"?

From earlier in the thread, it came across as some wanted Kap to be more vocal and yall at his teammates for missed blocks or dropped passes.

Um....I don't see Luck or Wilson do that.

There are different ways to lead.....and that can also change as time goes on.

I think a lot of posters want to see Kaep scream at his receivers a la Tom Brady. You know, like one of the best QB's in the game... because Kaep somehow has earned the right to lambaste everyone on the team when things go wrong...

Oh, maybe it has more to do with hats and tats... but most posters don't want to volunteer how their "beliefs" influence assessment.

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Both teams have a sound system. The 49ers do not. Apples and oranges. Look at what Arians did with a Bengal/Raider castoff. Carroll IS a leader and the offense ran with Wilson's strengths. Wilson, in many ways, is in a much better situation.

This team... ... has serious gameplan and coaching issues. And I really don't see a difference between Luck's or Wilson's leadership. Keap did a fine job leading in Nevada and winning the team over after Smith was hurt.

But hey, these are my observations.

Oh, and you didn't address my initial postulation. My reasoning regarding the ridicules nature of the audit.

You're entitled to have your observations. I respect them for what they are. You are also free to reject the comparison to Wilson and Luck, but I find your attempt to differentiate unsuccessful. Quarterbacks can lead in broken systems. The fact that Kap has been unable to is not necessarily an indictment on the system.

Regarding your last line, you'll have to be more specific. Which postulation are you referring to? Which audit?

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

To me, leading means elevating the play of the guys around him. The fact that Wilson got production out of the scrubs they had at WR last season shows leadership. The fact that Luck looks completely at home in his offense and performs at a high level by getting the most out of the guys around him shows leadership.

Can't speak for the rest of the thread...you'll have to ask them.

Wilson isn't getting that production this year. Forget how to lead in the offseason?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, here's my issue: To break the play down fully -

The left side of the field is more of the cover 2 zone beating combo. You put the corner in a tough spot in that, if he covers Boldin, the streak is open and vice versa. From the snap - you could see a cover 4 shell. At the snap of the ball, CK should be keeping his eyes on the safeties looking for if they rotate over into single high, split wide in cover 2 or drop back in cover 4. What he has to keep in his mind when he comes to the LOS are the possible defenses he could see out of this look. Based of the LB alignment and depth - not likely a blitz here. So, you're looking for cover 2,3, or 4. If you see cover 2 zone, you should immediately be looking for your streaks on the "rail" shot. that open zone between the corner and safety. If you see cover 2 -man, you'll look to Boldin on his hook route. If you see cover 4, you look to the Johnson/VD side for the out route to VD. If you see cover 3(highly unlikely on 3rd and long) you take the shot to 1-1 coverage. My issue is, CK doesn't read the safeties, he assumes cover 2 man(granted, they did run this a few times earlier up to this point) but, the off is something NY doesn't show in a cover 2 very often. From the snap, CK doesn't watch the safeties drop straight back(showing the cover 4) so he's not aware of the fact that he's looking at the wrong side of the play. To me, he should've gone to the Johnson/VD side first, that way, it's not a matter of pressure getting there before he can make the read, it's knowing that the other side IS his primary read.

This is something I've talked about quite a bit. CK will get rather confident in his pre-snap reads sometimes and doesn't bother checking the safeties. It's hurt him in not looking safeties off and by not double checking the plays.(this exact same thing happened on the last play of the NFCCG).

I'm not asking that he be able to scan the whole way across during the play - that would be nitpicking. It's that he needs to have a better understanding of the totality of mental calisthenics he has to go through in the process of each play(process being from the moment the huddle is broken through to the end of the play).

So this. Very good explanation. Sometimes, I need to remind myself that CK is still learning along with the fact that he doesn't have complete trust in his OL.

Right now, it seems as though he is looking at his receivers routes rather than trusting that his OL will give him the time needed for him to take his eyes off his target, put them on the defense to read the defense, and then make a quick "blind" throw per correct read. It is obvious the game is still moving a little fast for him right now but that is what we need to remind ourselves...because he's still learning.

The great sign is that he is trying rather than saying eff this, I'm running or scrambling.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
To me, leading means elevating the play of the guys around him. The fact that Wilson got production out of the scrubs they had at WR last season shows leadership. The fact that Luck looks completely at home in his offense and performs at a high level by getting the most out of the guys around him shows leadership.

Can't speak for the rest of the thread...you'll have to ask them.

Wilson isn't getting that production this year. Forget how to lead in the offseason?

Defenses adjusted...look at what Lynch is doing. Wilson will take 150 yards and 2 TDs from Lynch every day.

Edit: This discussion is totally off the rails. Just wanted to throw that in.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by sanjo49er:

Originally posted by thl408:
3rd Down Failure #4

1st Down: Gore for -1
2nd Down: Incomplete deep to Lloyd

49ers: No idea what Crabs and Boldin are trying to do and why they are so close to one another running down the field. Then stopping near one another.
NYG: cover4


Kap hits the top of his dropback and looks to his left. If he is going to throw Crab's Deep Out, it needs to be now, before Crabs starts his break as this is a far throw. But with the CB watching Kap, it's a risky throw. Boldin's route is not helping since it brings another defender into the area.


Kap starts his windup to target Crabs and the CB on Crabs sees it the whole way. The CB drives on the throw.


Lucky this pass was not INTed as the CB got his fingers on the ball. Would not have been a first down anyway.


I will continue the rest of this series tomorrow. Enough 'fail' for one night, especially in a 49er victory.

"Take what the Defense gives u"

You mean take the first down to Lloyd? That would have been the right throw to make. Perfect pass protection, but he didn't give the play long enough to develop or even really look at the right side of the field. That's on Kap...

Yup I was watching this and he didn't even look towards the right side. he had plenty of time to scan the field and didn't even look the other way. How about kap throws a little pump fake in there every once in a while?

I think what is going on here is an optional route for crabs. If the CB/ saftey stay on top he makes the cut if not it keeps going straight.

My guess is CK saw this and knew that if he made the cut he would have the 1st down. I do not think CK had confidence that crabs would cut so he waited to make the throw until he was sure.

This would explain the stare down and the late throw.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Ok, now I'm confused again.....um what do yall consider "leading"?

From earlier in the thread, it came across as some wanted Kap to be more vocal and yall at his teammates for missed blocks or dropped passes.

Um....I don't see Luck or Wilson do that.

There are different ways to lead.....and that can also change as time goes on.

To me, leading means elevating the play of the guys around him. The fact that Wilson got production out of the scrubs they had at WR last season shows leadership. The fact that Luck looks completely at home in his offense and performs at a high level by getting the most out of the guys around him shows leadership.

Can't speak for the rest of the thread...you'll have to ask them.

So you think it was Wilson's leadership that magically allowed Baldwin to make insane catches these previous years.....I wonder what Baldwin would say to that...lol.

I've never felt Seattle had garbage WRs...always felt they had more versatile ones than we do...and that their coaches put them in the right situations to succeed. Unlike screen calls on 3rd and long to Boldin or Crabtree.

And i don't agree that the Colts have garbage weapons either...they also have versatile recivers.

WRs and TEs...

Wow, never thought I'd say this but I think that the problem now is that Kaep has way too many weapons. There's multiple options on every breakdown, too bad there's only 1 ball to be thrown.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Ok, now I'm confused again.....um what do yall consider "leading"?

From earlier in the thread, it came across as some wanted Kap to be more vocal and yall at his teammates for missed blocks or dropped passes.

Um....I don't see Luck or Wilson do that.

There are different ways to lead.....and that can also change as time goes on.

To me, leading means elevating the play of the guys around him. The fact that Wilson got production out of the scrubs they had at WR last season shows leadership. The fact that Luck looks completely at home in his offense and performs at a high level by getting the most out of the guys around him shows leadership.

Can't speak for the rest of the thread...you'll have to ask them.

So you think it was Wilson's leadership that magically allowed Baldwin to make insane catches these previous years.....I wonder what Baldwin would say to that...lol.

I've never felt Seattle had garbage WRs...always felt they had more versatile ones than we do...and that their coaches put them in the right situations to succeed. Unlike screen calls on 3rd and long to Boldin or Crabtree.

And i don't agree that the Colts have garbage weapons either...they also have versatile recivers.

WRs and TEs...

Responding to your second comment first, I didn't say (and I don't think I implied) that the Colts have garbage weapons. Their weapons are solid, though not as good in my opinion as the ones we have in SF. My point was that Luck is getting much more bang out of his weapons than we are out of ours.

Regarding Wilson, I think it's a chicken and the egg thing. Wilson makes the most of that versatility and executes in crunch time. I may be alone in this, but given the choice between Wilson at his current level and Kap at his current level to lead a two-minute game-winning drive, I'd take Wilson.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Both teams have a sound system. The 49ers do not. Apples and oranges. Look at what Arians did with a Bengal/Raider castoff. Carroll IS a leader and the offense ran with Wilson's strengths. Wilson, in many ways, is in a much better situation.

This team... ... has serious gameplan and coaching issues. And I really don't see a difference between Luck's or Wilson's leadership. Keap did a fine job leading in Nevada and winning the team over after Smith was hurt.

But hey, these are my observations.

Oh, and you didn't address my initial postulation. My reasoning regarding the ridicules nature of the audit.

You're entitled to have your observations. I respect them for what they are. You are also free to reject the comparison to Wilson and Luck, but I find your attempt to differentiate unsuccessful. Quarterbacks can lead in broken systems. The fact that Kap has been unable to is not necessarily an indictment on the system.

Regarding your last line, you'll have to be more specific. Which postulation are you referring to? Which audit?

So you are saying Kap has been unable to lead this team?

Do you ignore hid play in playoff games? In Championship games? In situations where we couldn't run the ball? Games on the road against the best teams in the league, as well as facing imo the best QB in the league Aaron Rodgers?...In -20 + degree situations?

Originally posted by thl408:
Here is another example of Kap understanding holes in zone coverage. Again, this is something I look from him in every game because teams are coming with zone coverage a lot. They want to keep their eyes on him because there are occasions he locks on to a target, and because he is such a threat to run.

2Q 2nd & 8

49ers: A variation of Curl-Flat with Miller and Crabs. More like a In-Flat. Designed to attack the orange LB.
NYG: cover3, but the CB on Crabs doesn't bail.


After looking to his right during his dropback, Kap completes his dropback and scans over to his left. Miller's route to the flat will take the orange defender with him.


Crabs pushes off.


Same moment in time as pic above. Crab's is not open, but he will be. Kap is already mid windup.


Another view of the same moment in time. The orange LB follows Miller to the flat opening up a throwing lane to Crabs. The blue LB is occupied by Gore's check release. The yellow area is where Kap will target to as he throws to an open space, before his WR gets there. This is great anticipation in throwing into holes in zone coverage.


Crabs just caught the ball.


+25 yards. Notice how poorly the deep safety plays this as he runs way too far to the sidelines. The 49ers will go back to this play later and it will yield an even better result.

If you don't mind, I'll tie this one in later with the previous skinny post that Crabs ran to show how our TD was set up. It'll be in a little bit as I have a couple things to get done at work before I'll have time to jump on that. Look for it in a half hour or so.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Both teams have a sound system. The 49ers do not. Apples and oranges. Look at what Arians did with a Bengal/Raider castoff. Carroll IS a leader and the offense ran with Wilson's strengths. Wilson, in many ways, is in a much better situation.

This team... ... has serious gameplan and coaching issues. And I really don't see a difference between Luck's or Wilson's leadership. Keap did a fine job leading in Nevada and winning the team over after Smith was hurt.

But hey, these are my observations.

Oh, and you didn't address my initial postulation. My reasoning regarding the ridicules nature of the audit.

You're entitled to have your observations. I respect them for what they are. You are also free to reject the comparison to Wilson and Luck, but I find your attempt to differentiate unsuccessful. Quarterbacks can lead in broken systems. The fact that Kap has been unable to is not necessarily an indictment on the system.

Regarding your last line, you'll have to be more specific. Which postulation are you referring to? Which audit?

So you are saying Kap has been unable to lead this team?

Do you ignore hid play in playoff games? In Championship games? In situations where we couldn't run the ball? Games on the road against the best teams in the league, as well as facing imo the best QB in the league Aaron Rodgers?...In -20 + degree situations?

Did I say anywhere that Kap has been unable to lead this team?

Edit: Your point completely undercuts the age argument presented earlier in the thread. Kap has been old enough to lead in the past; why can't he do it now? Well done.