NY Giants coaches film analysis

Originally posted by jonnydel:

My issue with that is that we don't have any sources of information to prove that statement. We aren't in the meeting rooms, we're not on the sidelines. I see a play that I've seen before in my playbooks,it's a hi/lo read. The QB is supposed to read the middle defenders high to low. Where they don't defend, that's where you go with the ball. That stuff I can see and show on the thread. Saying that the coaches are coaching him to take the shot - that's a guess in the dark. We have no way of knowing if that is or isn't true. To me, my logic tells me, they're going to look to at least make 3rd down more manageable.

We don't have source of information to prove any statement. But the actions of the coaches show more truth than anything. They dumped the guy who checked down over taking the shot. The guy they replaced him with keeps taking shots every game when he probably could dump balls. The coaches continually call deep shot primary reads on 2nd downs. None of those actions hint to me that they are looking to gain 5 or 6 yard gains down the field. If they want that then change to a short rhythm pass game based on timing. When they call that kind of game Colin has shown well.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

My issue with that is that we don't have any sources of information to prove that statement. We aren't in the meeting rooms, we're not on the sidelines. I see a play that I've seen before in my playbooks,it's a hi/lo read. The QB is supposed to read the middle defenders high to low. Where they don't defend, that's where you go with the ball. That stuff I can see and show on the thread. Saying that the coaches are coaching him to take the shot - that's a guess in the dark. We have no way of knowing if that is or isn't true. To me, my logic tells me, they're going to look to at least make 3rd down more manageable.

We don't have source of information to prove any statement. But the actions of the coaches show more truth than anything. They dumped the guy who checked down over taking the shot. The guy they replaced him with keeps taking shots every game when he probably could dump balls. The coaches continually call deep shot primary reads on 2nd downs. None of those actions hint to me that they are looking to gain 5 or 6 yard gains down the field. If they want that then change to a short rhythm pass game based on timing. When they call that kind of game Colin has shown well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

Originally posted by genus49:
huh?

I'm lost on this one. How does he not look to that side? He scans the whole field on the play but due to the pass rush pulls the trigger quickly. Considering the only guy open was Davis...given his recent struggles I don't blame him for not making the rushed throw to him.

You guys are nitpicking like crazy on that one. Makes it hard to believe there isn't bias sneaking in there.

Also don't you get tired starting your breakdowns of the offense with "not sure what's going on there"?

When I breakdown passing plays and critique Kap, I am always presenting the "best case scenario" for that play. What would a perfect QB do? I don't always expect him to make the best play. In this case, ADavis gave up pressure and Kap had no time to look to his right because he had already looked to his left to start the play.

I don't see anything wrong with saying "I don't know". There's a lot wrong with making up BS.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

This whole leader garbage needs to be placed in perspective.

Kaep is 25, there are many players on offense that have been in the league longer and are older than Kaep.

Part of leadership is the team ACCEPTING the leadership. This is not always a rational process. So, before you criticize Keap's "leadership", ask yourself: would you easily follow a guy that has spent less time in you field and is 2 - 5 years younger.

Or, would you look at every potential flaw to reinforce that you don't have to follow him or her.


Just something to contemplate

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

This whole leader garbage needs to be placed in perspective.

Kaep is 25, there are many players on offense that have been in the league longer and are older than Kaep.

Part of leadership is the team ACCEPTING the leadership. This is not always a rational process. So, before you criticize Keap's "leadership", ask yourself: would you easily follow a guy that has spent less time in you field and is 2 - 5 years younger.

Or, would you look at every potential flaw to reinforce that you don't have to follow him or her.


Just something to contemplate

25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Kap just turned 27 a couple of weeks ago.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by thl408:
3rd Down Failure #2

1st Down: Gore for -1
2nd Down: Incomplete pass

49ers: Not sure what's going on to Kap's left. Looks rather vanilla. To Kap's right is a clear out by SJ for VD's out route. The whole play looks rather basic, but it got someone open.
NYG: cover 4


Kap drops back and looks to his left. With the CB over Lloyd playing with a large cushion, there's nothing to be had there. Boldin's Curls gets defeated as well. The two DL across from Boone and ADavis just stunted.


Kap looks to his right for a split second before the stunting DT loops around ADavis and has a clear path to Kap.


Kap sees the rusher coming at him and checks down to Hyde over the middle. VD was open along the sidelines, but the pressure didn't allow Kap to see him.







jonnydel alluded to this play earlier in this thread: "To me, when I see a QB miss a read against cover 4 when the defense showed, pre-snap, a 4 shell look and stayed in that look post snap and the QB never looks to the side of the play to beat a cover 4 and has an open TE - it's not a system issue." Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/180298-giants-coaches-film-analysis/page5/#6DmL6gWlfU5hVYdk.99

huh?

I'm lost on this one. How does he not look to that side? He scans the whole field on the play but due to the pass rush pulls the trigger quickly. Considering the only guy open was Davis...given his recent struggles I don't blame him for not making the rushed throw to him.

You guys are nitpicking like crazy on that one. Makes it hard to believe there isn't bias sneaking in there.

Also don't you get tired starting your breakdowns of the offense with "not sure what's going on there"?

Ok, here's my issue: To break the play down fully -

The left side of the field is more of the cover 2 zone beating combo. You put the corner in a tough spot in that, if he covers Boldin, the streak is open and vice versa. From the snap - you could see a cover 4 shell. At the snap of the ball, CK should be keeping his eyes on the safeties looking for if they rotate over into single high, split wide in cover 2 or drop back in cover 4. What he has to keep in his mind when he comes to the LOS are the possible defenses he could see out of this look. Based of the LB alignment and depth - not likely a blitz here. So, you're looking for cover 2,3, or 4. If you see cover 2 zone, you should immediately be looking for your streaks on the "rail" shot. that open zone between the corner and safety. If you see cover 2 -man, you'll look to Boldin on his hook route. If you see cover 4, you look to the Johnson/VD side for the out route to VD. If you see cover 3(highly unlikely on 3rd and long) you take the shot to 1-1 coverage. My issue is, CK doesn't read the safeties, he assumes cover 2 man(granted, they did run this a few times earlier up to this point) but, the off is something NY doesn't show in a cover 2 very often. From the snap, CK doesn't watch the safeties drop straight back(showing the cover 4) so he's not aware of the fact that he's looking at the wrong side of the play. To me, he should've gone to the Johnson/VD side first, that way, it's not a matter of pressure getting there before he can make the read, it's knowing that the other side IS his primary read.

This is something I've talked about quite a bit. CK will get rather confident in his pre-snap reads sometimes and doesn't bother checking the safeties. It's hurt him in not looking safeties off and by not double checking the plays.(this exact same thing happened on the last play of the NFCCG).

I'm not asking that he be able to scan the whole way across during the play - that would be nitpicking. It's that he needs to have a better understanding of the totality of mental calisthenics he has to go through in the process of each play(process being from the moment the huddle is broken through to the end of the play).

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

This whole leader garbage needs to be placed in perspective.

Kaep is 25, there are many players on offense that have been in the league longer and are older than Kaep.

Part of leadership is the team ACCEPTING the leadership. This is not always a rational process. So, before you criticize Keap's "leadership", ask yourself: would you easily follow a guy that has spent less time in you field and is 2 - 5 years younger.

Or, would you look at every potential flaw to reinforce that you don't have to follow him or her.


Just something to contemplate

25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Ck's 27.......

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

This whole leader garbage needs to be placed in perspective.

Kaep is 25, there are many players on offense that have been in the league longer and are older than Kaep.

Part of leadership is the team ACCEPTING the leadership. This is not always a rational process. So, before you criticize Keap's "leadership", ask yourself: would you easily follow a guy that has spent less time in you field and is 2 - 5 years younger.

Or, would you look at every potential flaw to reinforce that you don't have to follow him or her.


Just something to contemplate

25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Ok, now I'm confused again.....um what do yall consider "leading"?

From earlier in the thread, it came across as some wanted Kap to be more vocal and yall at his teammates for missed blocks or dropped passes.

Um....I don't see Luck or Wilson do that.

There are different ways to lead.....and that can also change as time goes on.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

This whole leader garbage needs to be placed in perspective.

Kaep is 25, there are many players on offense that have been in the league longer and are older than Kaep.

Part of leadership is the team ACCEPTING the leadership. This is not always a rational process. So, before you criticize Keap's "leadership", ask yourself: would you easily follow a guy that has spent less time in you field and is 2 - 5 years younger.

Or, would you look at every potential flaw to reinforce that you don't have to follow him or her.


Just something to contemplate

25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Ck's 27.......

Indeed. When a poster misstates a fact that is so central to his or her point, it makes me question his or her objectivity.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Both teams have a sound system. The 49ers do not. Apples and oranges. Look at what Arians did with a Bengal/Raider castoff. Carroll IS a leader and the offense ran with Wilson's strengths. Wilson, in many ways, is in a much better situation.

This team... ... has serious gameplan and coaching issues. And I really don't see a difference between Luck's or Wilson's leadership. Keap did a fine job leading in Nevada and winning the team over after Smith was hurt.

But hey, these are my observations.

Oh, and you didn't address my initial postulation. My reasoning regarding the ridicules nature of the audit.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
My issue with that is that we don't have any sources of information to prove that statement. We aren't in the meeting rooms, we're not on the sidelines. I see a play that I've seen before in my playbooks,it's a hi/lo read. The QB is supposed to read the middle defenders high to low. Where they don't defend, that's where you go with the ball. That stuff I can see and show on the thread. Saying that the coaches are coaching him to take the shot - that's a guess in the dark. We have no way of knowing if that is or isn't true. To me, my logic tells me, they're going to look to at least make 3rd down more manageable.

We don't have source of information to prove any statement. But the actions of the coaches show more truth than anything. They dumped the guy who checked down over taking the shot. The guy they replaced him with keeps taking shots every game when he probably could dump balls. The coaches continually call deep shot primary reads on 2nd downs. None of those actions hint to me that they are looking to gain 5 or 6 yard gains down the field. If they want that then change to a short rhythm pass game based on timing. When they call that kind of game Colin has shown well.

It reminds me of something Deon Sanders said to Steve Mariucci when they were talking about the day Terrell Owens broke the record for most catches in a game. It was on "Jerry Rice" day in San Fran. Deon said to Mooch, "how could you call 20 pass plays to Terrell Owens on Jerry Rice day, of all days?!?!?" Mooch responded, "Hey, I wasn't the one making the throws, so you can't blame me for that"

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't think the issue is Kap's leadership at all...poor game planing and making adjustment have been the reason for a couple losses in my opinion. Roger's has never been known as a leader either.

Kap threw some very inaccurate balls on Sunday and play calling in the red zone (again) has been the issue....I am glad they have realized that the line is built for running the ball and when gore gets 20 touches they usually win.

Rogers is the epitome of leader. What have the WR's who have gone elsewhere ever done? Jack squat is what. I live 30 minutes south of Lambeau and trust me when I say that post couldn't be more wrong.

This whole leader garbage needs to be placed in perspective.

Kaep is 25, there are many players on offense that have been in the league longer and are older than Kaep.

Part of leadership is the team ACCEPTING the leadership. This is not always a rational process. So, before you criticize Keap's "leadership", ask yourself: would you easily follow a guy that has spent less time in you field and is 2 - 5 years younger.

Or, would you look at every potential flaw to reinforce that you don't have to follow him or her.


Just something to contemplate

25?

Edit: The same can be said of Luck and Wilson regarding age. They seem to lead pretty well.

Ck's 27.......

Indeed. When a poster misstates a fact that is so central to his or her point, it makes me question his or her objectivity.

Sorry about that, thought he was 25. K, he's 27. I still stand by my point.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Indeed. When a poster misstates a fact that is so central to his or her point, it makes me question his or her objectivity.

Ok respond to my post then.

It seems the opposite can be said of Wilson.