NY Giants coaches film analysis

Originally posted by genus49:
IMO this is one of the few threads on here which is legit because you can't really argue what happens on the field. I enjoy these breakdowns because of the gifs at the end...can't stand play breakdowns using still shots only as there is way too much room for hypotheticals - oh that guy was open, he should've done this and that. Meanwhile you watch the play in real time and it becomes much clearer why the play went the way it did.

What I find kind of crazy is that it took to page 4 to actually see the first play broken down. Before that it was the same crap we see in the Kap thread.

My take on the situation is simple. Kaepernick isn't where I thought he'd be given how he started in 2012. However he's a lot better than what some of you give him credit for.

I don't buy the fact that the guy isn't a good leader. I don't approve of how he acts off the field(i'm not a fan of the sneaker head mentality or him acting like haters are constantly out to get him or him putting on a tough guy act in front of the media) I do wish he was more humble, more appreciative of the opportunity he has and less flashy.

Having said that all of that has nothing to do with how he plays on the field. He's far from perfect but he's progressing despite an offense which I still believe restricts him as a QB. There's just too many similarities between Colin's deficiencies and what we saw with Alex Smith while he was here - outside the obvious in terms of throwing deep or throwing into tight windows.

Colin is still young and there is room to improve. He's already doing it but needs to get more consistent. I pray we're able to bring in an offensive coordinator who can really work with Colin and bring out the best in him. It's there and by all accounts Colin is not afraid of hard work. And simply put I don't think we can accurately assess what Colin is as a finished NFL QB without seeing him play with a different coordinator.

How much of his hesitancy on the field in some situations are due to him and how much is due to scheme? The anti Kap crew will say it's all him and Roman is just playcalling based on what Colin can do. The pro Kap crew will say Roman is holding Kap back. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Either way we will not know until there's a different coordinator in place. The scary thing is change brings uncertainty. You could bring in someone much better, someone about the same or someone worse.

But IMO at this point the best thing for this franchise is to move forward from Roman and take the gamble. Just have to be smart about it. Can't wait til last minute to hire someone just to get a body in there.

I'm just hopeful that Harbaugh wakes up and finally changes his mind of what he wants out of this offense. The talent is there and despite what OP says I believe we have plenty of leadership. Colin may not be Joe Montana but the guys around him know how hard he works. I don't believe for a second that they don't trust him as a leader. Crabtree certainly isn't helping things with his facial expressions but he's also not helping things with his hands.

Not every throw will be perfect. And not every game film breakdown will be kind to Colin. If you break down film from the Pats vs the Colts Tom Brady would look pretty terrible. If you break down his film from the Chiefs game earlier in the year he'd look even worse. Sometimes the QB just doesn't play well. It's up to the rest of the team to pick up the slack.

Hopefully Colin is able to rebound and the rest of his offensive teammates help him out. A QB needs to be confident in the scheme and the guys around him. This year hasn't led to too much confidence unfortunately. It needs to change if we want to make the playoffs and make a push to the Superbowl.

Great post!

BTW: If you are seeing the same exact results and patterns after 4 years under 2 different QB's and 2 very different stages of NFL experience, that's the system. Period. So in that, I agree with you.

Marvin asked me last year if I felt we could win a Superbowl with this offensive system and I answered, "Hell no. Not even a chance." That probably sounds crazy given we made 3 NFCCG's and 1 Superbowl but at some point, your OC (HaRoman) is going to have to make their mark...they WILL be tested...they WILL have to make that critical call fully knowing the strengths ad weakness of our personnel and many of the playoff teams we'll face, and for that, I do not have confidence in them. In fact, I have just the opposite feeling. That said, I'd be stoked to be wrong there. We have SO much talent on offense, it's scary so perhaps, we can will our way to the trophy!

Originally posted by Giedi:
jonnydel for his future film breakdowns

thl408 for all his hard work.

Thanks for being patient with us webzoners who feel very strongly about the team. I think everybody here respects and appreciates all the hard work you do to post these film breakdowns up. At least I do.

We feel just as strongly about our team too. That's always the struggle when you're breaking down film and why we'll get, maybe even too much, defensive about things. Because we've taken a lot of time to try and be as objective as possible and, because we feel so strongly about our team, can get very frustrated when you see your guys blow things that are there for the taking.

Originally posted by genus49:
IMO this is one of the few threads on here which is legit because you can't really argue what happens on the field.

obviously not, there are multiple posters who cant even agree on whether kaep should have adjusted to the 4 deep play, then some dont even agree that he made the incorrect read, then there was even one who complained that the play was too simple.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great post!

BTW: If you are seeing the same exact results and patterns after 4 years under 2 different QB's and 2 very different stages of NFL experience, that's the system. Period.

Originally posted by jrice80

YEAR - RANK - Yards per play (run/pass/overall)
2014 - 30th - 4.89 5.33 5.08
2013 - 4th - 6.46 6.81 6.60
2012 - 2nd - 6.57 7.97 7.22
2011 - 9th - 6.50 7.11 6.76

Originally posted by thl408:
There's a reason jonnydel and I do this every week. It's not so we can show off our mspaint skills, it's not so we can show off what we know about football, it's not so we can push an agenda onto other forum members. I don't respond to the positive feedback posts that say "thanks". I appreciate it, but I don't want to clutter the thread with 'you're welcome'. That's not why we do this.

It's so we, as 49er fans, have a better understanding of what our team is doing - at low level detail. That's it. Nothing more. How many members would think the 49ers ran a one read passing attack, were a zone dominant defense, that Kap is a one read QB? Those are all myths that have been stated by various members of the media. We do this so Zone members understand our team. Its strengths and its weaknesses. When the family sleeps, I cut plays up so we have items to discuss that is below the level of "our offense sucks", and "our defense kicks ass". That's all the "Whats". But Why? How?

When it was stated that I had a bias and an agenda by a fellow poster, that hit a nerve because I'd like to think I have no pro-coach, pro-player, anti-coach, or anti-player bias. The only bias I have is pro-49ers. The main reason I don't point out the coaches as much as the players is because it's easier to see when the players fail to execute their assignment. That's plain to see on film. So why do the players continue to fail in certain areas? That's where you, as an independent thinker, can point to the proper coach.

I have never ever stated that the sole reason for offensive failure is all on the players. I have repeatedly stated that there are always various reasons for failure on different plays. This includes players and coaches. I'm sure I also speak for jonnydel when I say that we welcome content from anyone that would like to share. This isn't his thread. This isn't my thread. This is a 49er fan's thread and anyone with a computer can post pictures to share their thoughts on the team. As always, if anyone has a certain play they'd like to see, feel free to mention it.

TLDR version: My only "agenda" is to discuss football in low level detail. On with the film breakdowns.

completely agree on every level - well done!

Originally posted by nannite:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great post!

BTW: If you are seeing the same exact results and patterns after 4 years under 2 different QB's and 2 very different stages of NFL experience, that's the system. Period.

Originally posted by jrice80

YEAR - RANK - Yards per play (run/pass/overall)
2014 - 30th - 4.89 5.33 5.08
2013 - 4th - 6.46 6.81 6.60
2012 - 2nd - 6.57 7.97 7.22
2011 - 9th - 6.50 7.11 6.76

See post #147.

Originally posted by thl408:
3rd Down Failure #4

1st Down: Gore for -1
2nd Down: Incomplete deep to Lloyd

49ers: No idea what Crabs and Boldin are trying to do and why they are so close to one another running down the field. Then stopping near one another.
NYG: cover4


Kap hits the top of his dropback and looks to his left. If he is going to throw Crab's Deep Out, it needs to be now, before Crabs starts his break as this is a far throw. But with the CB watching Kap, it's a risky throw. Boldin's route is not helping since it brings another defender into the area.


Kap starts his windup to target Crabs and the CB on Crabs sees it the whole way. The CB drives on the throw.


Lucky this pass was not INTed as the CB got his fingers on the ball. Would not have been a first down anyway.


I will continue the rest of this series tomorrow. Enough 'fail' for one night, especially in a 49er victory.

My problem with Kaep is that he tends to lock onto only one side of the field or only one player. If he looks right then he would see that Lloyd was open, Kaep had plenty of time in the pocket.

Originally posted by NCommand:


Again, let's not ignore these stats and just focus on 3rd downs as that is the end result of poor play calling on 1st downs (coupled with some poor execution as well). You fix that and we're a playoff team. You then fix the RZ problems and we're a Superbowl winning team. Ironically, 1st down production and the RZ are very similar and it's where an OC earn their money: HaRoman.

Saints Game:
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 8
2nd and 10
2nd and 17
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 9
2nd and 19
2nd and 7
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 10

Of the 25 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
17 times 25 times of >7 to go averaging 10.6 yards left to go

Giant's Game:
2nd and 18
2nd and 17
2nd and 11
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 11
2nd and 10
2nd and 9
2nd and 10
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 9

Only 19 2nd down opportunities this game:
12 of the 19 times of >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go

This post needs to be seen by all. Thats just freaking absurd that these past 2 games weve been dealing with 2nd and long 66% of the time. I wonder what the rest of the season looks like. Would be nice to also see what yardage we were facing on 3rd downs. Seems like Kap is always having to play from like 3rd and 8 which is pretty damn difficult to do since the D can pin their ears back.

Lloyd is open if Kap is throwing a timing route to him sure. But if Kap would have to take a real quick look left and decide to go right to get the ball to an open Lloyd. The schematic issue with having all routes at the same depth around the field is you can't just go from one progression to the other because Lloyd is no longer open by the time you get to him. If Kap looks to Lloyd after more than 1.5 seconds the db will have a chance to plant and break on the ball.

As thl408 stated the throw needs to be anticipation throw or nothing. Every single route in the play would require one. There really is no progression to go to.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
You mean take the first down to Lloyd? That would have been the right throw to make. Perfect pass protection, but he didn't give the play long enough to develop or even really look at the right side of the field. That's on Kap...

You can't expect a QB to see everything on the field and you said it yourself he didn't look right. There is blame on him there for not looking there or looking off the DB to give himself a split second extra to get the ball to Crabtree. But at the same time why does the play design have two guys right next to each other? That makes the looks a lot more congested and allows the defender on Boldin to pass him off to the safety and force Kap to make a tougher throw to Crab.

IMO that's part Kap and part Roman. Kap for not reading that the cluster on the left leaves a good matchup on the right but Roman for the poor design to make the first read on the cluttered left side.

Originally posted by Loco49er:
My problem with Kaep is that he tends to lock onto only one side of the field or only one player. If he looks right then he would see that Lloyd was open, Kaep had plenty of time in the pocket.

Its easy to cherry pick a single play and say he had plenty of time in the pocket but what about the rest of the game? What about the rest of the season? As the most sacked QB in the league I'm gonna go out on a limb and say his internal clock may be a bit shorter than others.

I actually feel hes been pretty good at playing with a short memory. Hes made plays where hes stayed in or stepped up into the pocket despite there not being one most of the time.

When youre being hit or pressured constantly its hard to take the time to scan the entire field.

Originally posted by Loco49er:
My problem with Kaep is that he tends to lock onto only one side of the field or only one player. If he looks right then he would see that Lloyd was open, Kaep had plenty of time in the pocket.

I have a problem with this logic. You make it sound like all the good QBs never throw to their first read and always look around the whole field prior to selecting their best option.

The play calls come in. The QB has to make a choice if he feels his first read is open enough to make the throw, if not he moves on to his other reads.

Your expectation is basically on a play where we have 5 receiving options is that he should go through all 5 to check which guy is most open then throw to that guy.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Loco49er:
My problem with Kaep is that he tends to lock onto only one side of the field or only one player. If he looks right then he would see that Lloyd was open, Kaep had plenty of time in the pocket.

I have a problem with this logic. You make it sound like all the good QBs never throw to their first read and always look around the whole field prior to selecting their best option.

The play calls come in. The QB has to make a choice if he feels his first read is open enough to make the throw, if not he moves on to his other reads.

Your expectation is basically on a play where we have 5 receiving options is that he should go through all 5 to check which guy is most open then throw to that guy.

I'm not saying he shouldn't throw to his primary read but the best QBs take a quick look at the other side of the field to keep the DBs guessing. It's easy to defend routes when the QB cuts the playing field in half.

One more thing, the play design on the left is horrible. When they run this play again I hope the primary read is Lloyd on the right.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by NCommand:


Again, let's not ignore these stats and just focus on 3rd downs as that is the end result of poor play calling on 1st downs (coupled with some poor execution as well). You fix that and we're a playoff team. You then fix the RZ problems and we're a Superbowl winning team. Ironically, 1st down production and the RZ are very similar and it's where an OC earn their money: HaRoman.

Saints Game:
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 8
2nd and 10
2nd and 17
2nd and 10
2nd and 12
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 9
2nd and 19
2nd and 7
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 10
2nd and 8
2nd and 10

Of the 25 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
17 times 25 times of >7 to go averaging 10.6 yards left to go

Giant's Game:
2nd and 18
2nd and 17
2nd and 11
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 11
2nd and 10
2nd and 9
2nd and 10
2nd and 7
2nd and 8
2nd and 9

Only 19 2nd down opportunities this game:
12 of the 19 times of >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go

This post needs to be seen by all. Thats just freaking absurd that these past 2 games weve been dealing with 2nd and long 66% of the time. I wonder what the rest of the season looks like. Would be nice to also see what yardage we were facing on 3rd downs. Seems like Kap is always having to play from like 3rd and 8 which is pretty damn difficult to do since the D can pin their ears back.

Yeah, let's cut these 1st downs up. There are only 12 in the Giants game. I'm sure we'd see a combination of predictable play calling, OL outnumbered, penalties, sacks, TFL, short gains from swimming upstream, inaccurate short-quick passes, unimaginative routes, "cute" plays, etc.

PS: I haven't even looked up the rest of the season but I'm willing to bet it looks exactly the same. It's not a hard trend to notice at all.

Originally posted by Loco49er:
I'm not saying he shouldn't throw to his primary read but the best QBs take a quick look at the other side of the field to keep the DBs guessing. It's easy to defend routes when the QB cuts the playing field in half.

One more thing, the play design on the left is horrible. When they run this play again I hope the primary read is Lloyd on the right.

Looking a DB off is not the same thing as totally looking at the other side of the field. If you think your first read is open looking at the other side of the field can close that window quickly and you're not guaranteed that the guy on the other side is open.