Denver Broncos and Bye week coaches film analysis

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Defensive philosophy, game plan, personnel or player execution (for and against us)...take your pick...it was a fail from top to bottom. Live and learn and grow!

Disagree...live long and prosper!

LOL. You sound like a Kaiser Permanente commercial!

Wrong Kaiser!

Three things.

First thanks jd and thl for your work and observaitons.

Second, yes, Stevie needs to start.

Third, Why was the pass rush an epic fail against Denver, and what can we scheme better?

Thanks.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by cciowa:
understand . i was just venting. i told myself i was going to take a week break like the players are doing but i am not mentally tough enough .. you do have to meet me half way and admit, the red mark in the middle of his forehead looks stupid

idk what you're talking about

don't forget about about the two on the side of his head too!

what are you guys talking about

Here's the INT. After the four throws shown above where Kap pulled the trigger when he saw 1v1 man coverage with the CB in a trailing position, DEN opens the second half with this.

3Q 3rd & 3 (first possession of 2nd half)

DEN shows press alignment. Based on how we know this play ends, we can assume Kap has made his pre-snap based on the defensive alignment he sees and how he knows SJ is going vertical. Talib is #21


The ball was just snapped by Kilgore. Notice Talib getting out of his press alignment.


Kap looks straight ahead to hold the deep safety. Talib starts to bail on Ellington. In doing so, Talib is basically giving up any sort of short inside breaking route to Ellington. In this case, a short In.


After holding the deep safety, Kap sees that the CB on SJ has his back turned to Kap. That confirms his pre-snap read of man coverage, trail position. Kap (mid windup) throws to SJ without checking what Talib has done. I say this because had Kap glanced at Talib, there's no way this pass is thrown with Talib watching Kap and bailing while in such close proximity to where the throw is headed.


It happens really fast, but right before the GIF starts, Kap looks to his left (away from where he will throw). Once he gets the snap, he looks straight to hold the middle safety. I don't think he bothered to check what Talib was doing. He assumed Talib was also playing press man based off the pre-snap alignment. Looney gets owned and the pass is off the back foot.

^^^ I guess the good thing here is that Kap is using his eyes to move people away from the throw. Had he had more time, he may have seen Talib and hit Bruce.

This is a part of his game that I think still needs improvement. When he has blitzers in his face, a lot of his INTs come because he throws to a receiver rather than throwing it away. A lot of young guys have this problem, and it has gotten better for Kap, but he still makes these types of mistakes from time to time. Unfortunately, we were already in a position where we couldn't afford to give Denver any more chances.

but if you watch closely, Kaep coulda hold on to that ball another second or two and woulda found Ellington wide opennnnnnnnnnnnn!!!

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
^^^ I guess the good thing here is that Kap is using his eyes to move people away from the throw. Had he had more time, he may have seen Talib and hit Bruce.

This is a part of his game that I think still needs improvement. When he has blitzers in his face, a lot of his INTs come because he throws to a receiver rather than throwing it away. A lot of young guys have this problem, and it has gotten better for Kap, but he still makes these types of mistakes from time to time. Unfortunately, we were already in a position where we couldn't afford to give Denver any more chances.

Yeah, b/c Stevie was facing jam/press (obstacle) he had to defeat the DB first to try and get to his spot and even though he was enroute to get there, the DB was still in position and on his hip leaving a VERY small window to throw into. B/c of the obstacle in front of him, I don't think Stevie was able to fully get to the spot cleanly/timely. You can see CK his his second step, plant to throw and Stevie wasn't there yet. CK also had to rush the throw a bit as well d/t the inside pressure not to mention those were some piss poor QB mechanics as well. Watch his feet on the drop back and arm-sling pass (falling back throw...maybe trying to buy an extra .5 a second for Stevie to get there). It may have just sailed on him and/or Johnson couldn't get to the spot on time or a combination of both (with added pressure). That's what jam/press does though...makes a QB hesitate if played properly and makes it hard for the WR to get to his spot timely.

Like most QBs I think Kaepernick decides who will get the ball before the snap and is a bit too slow to divert for another option. Ellington was an obvious option but Johnson had been so clutch...hard to go away from him to a rookie.

But that was about the only throw that was really suspect. I thought this was one of CK's better games...just had too many drops and too little time in the pocket.

Originally posted by thl408:

This reminds me of our interception against Matt Shaub last year. We gave Matt a man look and it was zone and Reid? stepped in and got an INT. Colin will learn from this and he'll make defenses pay next time. He'll hit that underneath route and get a score.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
^^^ I guess the good thing here is that Kap is using his eyes to move people away from the throw. Had he had more time, he may have seen Talib and hit Bruce.

This is a part of his game that I think still needs improvement. When he has blitzers in his face, a lot of his INTs come because he throws to a receiver rather than throwing it away. A lot of young guys have this problem, and it has gotten better for Kap, but he still makes these types of mistakes from time to time. Unfortunately, we were already in a position where we couldn't afford to give Denver any more chances.

Yeah, b/c Stevie was facing jam/press (obstacle) he had to defeat the DB first to try and get to his spot and even though he was enroute to get there, the DB was still in position and on his hip leaving a VERY small window to throw into. B/c of the obstacle in front of him, I don't think Stevie was able to fully get to the spot cleanly/timely. You can see CK his his second step, plant to throw and Stevie wasn't there yet. CK also had to rush the throw a bit as well d/t the inside pressure not to mention those were some piss poor QB mechanics as well. Watch his feet on the drop back and arm-sling pass (falling back throw...maybe trying to buy an extra .5 a second for Stevie to get there). It may have just sailed on him and/or Johnson couldn't get to the spot on time or a combination of both (with added pressure). That's what jam/press does though...makes a QB hesitate if played properly and makes it hard for the WR to get to his spot timely.

But SJ beat the CB cleanly off the line of scrimmage and immediately had a step on the CB. The INT occurred because the pass was overthrown due to Kap throwing off his back foot, like you mentioned. The main reason, though, is because Talib was in perfect position to see the throw the whole way as well as play it. The moment Talib bailed on Ellington, this throw had no chance because SJ was basically double teamed. The INT did not happen because SJ was pressed.

I get that you want to so badly find an example where press coverage can throw off timing, and there are many examples of it every Sunday. This is not one of them.

Originally posted by thl408:
But SJ beat the CB cleanly off the line of scrimmage and immediately had a step on the CB. The INT occurred because the pass was overthrown due to Kap throwing off his back foot, like you mentioned. The main reason, though, is because Talib was in perfect position to see the throw the whole way as well as play it. The moment Talib bailed on Ellington, this throw had no chance because SJ was basically double teamed. The INT did not happen because SJ was pressed.

I get that you want to so badly find an example where press coverage can throw off timing, and there are many examples of it every Sunday. This is not one of them.

do you think we play "prevent-a-win" defense giving receivers a clean release?

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:
But SJ beat the CB cleanly off the line of scrimmage and immediately had a step on the CB. The INT occurred because the pass was overthrown due to Kap throwing off his back foot, like you mentioned. The main reason, though, is because Talib was in perfect position to see the throw the whole way as well as play it. The moment Talib bailed on Ellington, this throw had no chance because SJ was basically double teamed. The INT did not happen because SJ was pressed.

I get that you want to so badly find an example where press coverage can throw off timing, and there are many examples of it every Sunday. This is not one of them.

do you think we play "prevent-a-win" defense giving receivers a clean release?

Every type of CB technique has its strengths and weaknesses so no, the 49ers don't play a "prevent a win" defense by giving WRs a clean release. The only prevent a win defense is playing a style that doesn't suit the skill set of the players. Or trying to teach players a style of play that coaches don't believe in and aren't good at teaching. If the 49er CBs lacked football IQ and didn't understand what Fangio/Donatell are trying to do, then putting them in situations where they have to use their brains, communicate with team mates before and during the play, study opponent tendencies to know what to expect in certain game situations, then that would be the 49ers playing prevent a win defense.

Just for example, and I'm just making this up, but if Daryl Morris (who has been cut from the team) was a dumb CB, and the 49ers tried to fit him into their scheme, that's prevent a win defense. If IND (they play press man a lot) acquired Alterraun Verner (excellent off coverage CB), and tried to play press bump and run with him, that's prevent a win defense. When TB acquired Revis and put him in zone coverage, that's prevent a win defense.

When both styles of man coverage (off coverage vs press) are done correctly, with the correct players, there is no style that's clearly better than the other. It's up to defensive philosophy and the skill set of the defensive players as a unit (front 7 included). Perhaps with the bye week coming, we can look into the pros and cons of each style.

Originally posted by thl408:
But SJ beat the CB cleanly off the line of scrimmage and immediately had a step on the CB. The INT occurred because the pass was overthrown due to Kap throwing off his back foot, like you mentioned. The main reason, though, is because Talib was in perfect position to see the throw the whole way as well as play it. The moment Talib bailed on Ellington, this throw had no chance because SJ was basically double teamed. The INT did not happen because SJ was pressed.

I get that you want to so badly find an example where press coverage can throw off timing, and there are many examples of it every Sunday. This is not one of them.

The pass was intercepted because Johnson was running into triple coverage that Kaepernick did not recognize or that he caused by staring at Johnson. The video clip shows that it would have been a very difficult pass to complete and having two additional DBs breaking on the ball made it very dangerous. There was a defender right up the middle who hurried the pass and it may have been a sack if it hadn't been released at that moment, so I don't blame Kaepernick other than not being accurate...and that happens with every QB from time to time.

I believe, and hope, that CK will develop better vision and anticipation with these types of throws, trusting Ellington to make a play on a shorter pass. Right now he really trusts Johnson...for good reason.

Originally posted by thl408:

Every type of CB technique has its strengths and weaknesses so no, the 49ers don't play a "prevent a win" defense by giving WRs a clean release. The only prevent a win defense is playing a style that doesn't suit the skill set of the players. Or trying to teach players a style of play that coaches don't believe in and aren't good at teaching. If the 49er CBs lacked football IQ and didn't understand what Fangio/Donatell are trying to do, then putting them in situations where they have to use their brains, communicate with team mates before and during the play, study opponent tendencies to know what to expect in certain game situations, then that would be the 49ers playing prevent a win defense.

Just for example, and I'm just making this up, but if Daryl Morris (who has been cut from the team) was a dumb CB, and the 49ers tried to fit him into their scheme, that's prevent a win defense. If IND (they play press man a lot) acquired Alterraun Verner (excellent off coverage CB), and tried to play press bump and run with him, that's prevent a win defense. When TB acquired Revis and put him in zone coverage, that's prevent a win defense.

When both styles of man coverage (off coverage vs press) are done correctly, with the correct players, there is no style that's clearly better than the other. It's up to defensive philosophy and the skill set of the defensive players as a unit (front 7 included). Perhaps with the bye week coming, we can look into the pros and cons of each style.

It was like when nnamdi ashowah went to Philly. He was at least a top 5 corner in Oakland and was forced into a system that didn't fit his talents. He basically wasted away the last games of his prime in a defense that didn't work for him. By the the time we got him, Father Time caught up to him. It's the balancing act gm/coaches have to do, you either get the guys to fit ur system or you change ur system to fit ur guys.

Lack of pass rush killed us in this game and this is why I expected this game to get ugly before it even started. Peyton is only human when he is pressured. If he's not pressured, he will kill you and our secondary is mediocre. No Bowman or Willis means teams can eat all day on short/intermediate pass game. We desperately need our guys back.