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Denver Broncos and Bye week coaches film analysis

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Originally posted by Giedi:
On the - I think - 2nd Donkey TD, lynch had him dead to rights but if your coverage doesn't hold up a little bit, even a good pass rush won't get there soon enough for the rush to get to Manning. In that 2nd TD He basically took three steps and hit the TE on wr screen -I think- and TD. Even Aldon rushing from the strong side could not have done better than lynch. Pass rush and coverage work together. Having one without the other (in our case both were out) means a big day for the QB.

Good point! My problem was with the defensive game plan, but I'm not sure it could have been better given the injuries. If they jammed those big receivers but didn't get to Manning...it would have been the same result. Willis and Bowman are fast enough to cover most receivers, but not forever.

If the Super Bowl is a rematch, which I wouldn't mind, and the 9ers have all their players healthy it could be a great game! Still don't know what the result would be but I know it wouldn't be as sad as this past game!
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Originally posted by braap49er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You both just got banned.

Im a Dodgers fan!!!!

GO NINERS!!!!

If I didn't feel sorry for you (not), I'd ban you too! LOL
  • thl408
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Originally posted by cciowa:
when are you guys going to stop with this,, the game means nothing anymore. it was over to me as soon as the game was over, this game means nothing to us moving foward. my god we have paralysis by analysis here. in ten days our team will look no where near to the team that left the field sunday night,, therefore this is not valuable in my opinion

Some of us want to evaluate the "why" part of the game. If you don't like it, don't click on the thread. You sound like a grumpy old man.
Originally posted by WilliamDonovan:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by WilliamDonovan:
Of course losing Aldon means no pass rush. That was the one thing missing from our defense for years. We draft Aldon and there it is, a pass rush and a elite defense. We have great players all around but Aldons pass rush is what put the D over the top. As much as i love guys like Willis and Justin, Aldon is the key to this defense and has been since he stepped on the field.

Sad you lack confidence in the players and coaches to the point of believing it impossible to create pressure without Aldon Smith. Seems J Smith and Lynch have brought pressure in past games so I'm not sure where your vision comes from, but I'll disagree and say they could hadve they planned correctly.

Does Aldon make a huge difference? Yes, but the fact that Borland and Lynch applied pressure would also seem to refute your assumption. Hmm...

Hate to say it, but the proof is in the pudding. When Aldon isn't in the game, we struggle at consistently getting to most QBs. We have been lucky so far that most of the time our coverage has held up, or the opposing QB missed some opportunities. When Manning has that much time, he rarely misses an opportunity. He is almost robotic when it comes to recognizing where he needs to go with the ball. When Smith comes back, he is going to bring so much attention to the blind side, that Lynch and Brooks will benefit on the opposite end.

Reread the posts: "Of course losing Aldon means no pass rush" is hyperbolic nonsense. Is A Smith a great player? Yes. Does losing a great player mean reduced production? Most of the time. Does it mean NO PRODUCTION? Not unless the team forfeits.

You definitely took my comment way too literal. Of course we can create a pass rush without Aldon, it's just no where near consistent enough against a guy like P. Manning. Against the elite teams, our defense really needs Aldon for a CONSISTENT pass rush. You're not going to make Manning uncomfortable by creating a pass rush once every few series, you have to consistently pressure him, and the only guy that does that on this team is Aldon.

Yeah, I think you guys may be thinking backwards here a bit based on our defensive philosophy here. Aldon will certainly help make big plays (he's clutch like Brooks) but there were stretches Aldon wouldn't get a sack last year and we b***hed about our pass rush. We play a defense that relies on the backend more than anything (which often times leads to "coverage sacks"). Look at the Broncos game...Brooks dropping back in coverage, we have 8 back in pass defense and only 3 "rushers" which can hardly be called that. So getting better coverage guys back like Willis, Bowman, a healthy Brock, Culliver, Ward, Cook, etc. is where we'll see the biggest difference in this defense IMHO. That's how we play...that's our defensive philosophy. Aldon is a great player and a great play maker but he's not going to single handidly mean we'll magically get there under 3 seconds on a consistent basis. But give him an extra second or two b/c of great coverage and he WILL get there...along with Brooks/Lynch and Justin (McDonald and Williams, you can forget about d/t their responsibilities).
I'm not worried about our defense against their offense. Don't think Borland and Skuta together could cover anyone. Even on that drag route against Brock, the underneath LB was completely out of position to make that throw a little tougher for Manning so that Brock could get there to make it a tougher catch for the WR.

Our LB's got destroyed this game from their positioning against the pass to their recognition and reaction against the run. Personally felt that the FS's began trying to compensate for that and were also caught trying to do too much.

I'm more concerned about our OL vs any playoff caliber defensive line. Our OL has got to get their s**t together.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by cciowa:
when are you guys going to stop with this,, the game means nothing anymore. it was over to me as soon as the game was over, this game means nothing to us moving foward. my god we have paralysis by analysis here. in ten days our team will look no where near to the team that left the field sunday night,, therefore this is not valuable in my opinion

Some of us want to evaluate the "why" part of the game. If you don't like it, don't click on the thread. You sound like a grumpy old man.
uh yes, i am,, i fail to see how some of you can nitpick a game to death where we had a jv team esp on defense going up against varsity. when you account for those circumstance like the injuries and no aldon, its pretty easy to see why we lost. there is no need to rehash over and over something that is no longer valuable. if the same team we saw sunday is the same team we will see for the rest of the season, ok knock yourself out,, but its not. and yes i am grumpy because i am sick and tired of people who act like sunday is who we are. we got our butt kicked, it happens, if we were full strength it probably would not have occurred but we were not and it did.. you people act like if you talk the damn game to death you can somehow change the outcome. the game means nothing moving forward and maybe you should spend your time not worrying so much about the past but figuring out how to proceed in the future. listening and seeing all of the people jumping off the ledge this week would make anyone grumpy. some of you also may just like to torture yourself
NC...agree with your post. What I saw in the Bronco game is a team, niners, who couldn't figure out how to replace the coverage of the MLBs and the rush of the OLB who were missing. It's one thing to lose one great player, but losing three of your four all pro LBs...come on now folks, it just isn't reasonable to blame the back ups for not being the starters. If they had been able to make up for the loss of these players it would have taken a huge jump by the DBs...one of whom was returning for his first game after injury.

To use this game to label a player or coach is just sad! Throw this game out and look at the season as a whole...then draw conclusions if you must.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by cciowa:
when are you guys going to stop with this,, the game means nothing anymore. it was over to me as soon as the game was over, this game means nothing to us moving foward. my god we have paralysis by analysis here. in ten days our team will look no where near to the team that left the field sunday night,, therefore this is not valuable in my opinion

Some of us want to evaluate the "why" part of the game. If you don't like it, don't click on the thread. You sound like a grumpy old man.
uh yes, i am,, i fail to see how some of you can nitpick a game to death where we had a jv team esp on defense going up against varsity. when you account for those circumstance like the injuries and no aldon, its pretty easy to see why we lost. there is no need to rehash over and over something that is no longer valuable. if the same team we saw sunday is the same team we will see for the rest of the season, ok knock yourself out,, but its not. and yes i am grumpy because i am sick and tired of people who act like sunday is who we are. we got our butt kicked, it happens, if we were full strength it probably would not have occurred but we were not and it did.. you people act like if you talk the damn game to death you can somehow change the outcome. the game means nothing moving forward and maybe you should spend your time not worrying so much about the past but figuring out how to proceed in the future. listening and seeing all of the people jumping off the ledge this week would make anyone grumpy. some of you also may just like to torture yourself

Or maybe some of us just want to look at the game that way for our own fun and educational purposes
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by BKpower:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by cciowa:
when are you guys going to stop with this,, the game means nothing anymore. it was over to me as soon as the game was over, this game means nothing to us moving foward. my god we have paralysis by analysis here. in ten days our team will look no where near to the team that left the field sunday night,, therefore this is not valuable in my opinion

Some of us want to evaluate the "why" part of the game. If you don't like it, don't click on the thread. You sound like a grumpy old man.
uh yes, i am,, i fail to see how some of you can nitpick a game to death where we had a jv team esp on defense going up against varsity. when you account for those circumstance like the injuries and no aldon, its pretty easy to see why we lost. there is no need to rehash over and over something that is no longer valuable. if the same team we saw sunday is the same team we will see for the rest of the season, ok knock yourself out,, but its not. and yes i am grumpy because i am sick and tired of people who act like sunday is who we are. we got our butt kicked, it happens, if we were full strength it probably would not have occurred but we were not and it did.. you people act like if you talk the damn game to death you can somehow change the outcome. the game means nothing moving forward and maybe you should spend your time not worrying so much about the past but figuring out how to proceed in the future. listening and seeing all of the people jumping off the ledge this week would make anyone grumpy. some of you also may just like to torture yourself

Or maybe some of us just want to look at the game that way for our own fun and educational purposes
understandable. you have a queer way of having fun . i really hope you do not have M and M's in that box of popcorn. how can people do that?
Originally posted by cciowa:
uh yes, i am,, i fail to see how some of you can nitpick a game to death where we had a jv team esp on defense going up against varsity. when you account for those circumstance like the injuries and no aldon, its pretty easy to see why we lost. there is no need to rehash over and over something that is no longer valuable. if the same team we saw sunday is the same team we will see for the rest of the season, ok knock yourself out,, but its not. and yes i am grumpy because i am sick and tired of people who act like sunday is who we are. we got our butt kicked, it happens, if we were full strength it probably would not have occurred but we were not and it did.. you people act like if you talk the damn game to death you can somehow change the outcome. the game means nothing moving forward and maybe you should spend your time not worrying so much about the past but figuring out how to proceed in the future. listening and seeing all of the people jumping off the ledge this week would make anyone grumpy. some of you also may just like to torture yourself

not torcher to me. devastating loss or not I can't wait for this thread. I need logic and film to ease my mind. I need answers
[ Edited by defenderDX on Oct 22, 2014 at 10:51 AM ]
Please continue these analyses of plays.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
NC...agree with your post. What I saw in the Bronco game is a team, niners, who couldn't figure out how to replace the coverage of the MLBs and the rush of the OLB who were missing. It's one thing to lose one great player, but losing three of your four all pro LBs...come on now folks, it just isn't reasonable to blame the back ups for not being the starters. If they had been able to make up for the loss of these players it would have taken a huge jump by the DBs...one of whom was returning for his first game after injury.

To use this game to label a player or coach is just sad! Throw this game out and look at the season as a whole...then draw conclusions if you must.

It was just a game plan, that's all. Fangio thought with the personnel we had for that game, we'd be better off with 8 in coverage (Brooks and ILB's dropping back a lot in zone) with only Aaron Lynch & Justin Smith rushing (you can't really count McDonald or Williams as a "rushers" here). We were forced into having Wilhoite call the defensive alignments b/c Willis was out. Overall, against the run, they played fairly well racking up 15 tackles. But naturally, the Broncos game plan very well and targeted the ILB's in coverage laterally and Brock, who was cold off an injury (b/c why would they target Cox?). But to be fair to Wilhoite, I don't think even Bowman or Willis would be able to keep up with Thomas across the field at full sprint on a clean release at the LOS. Maybe...just maybe, if someone jammed or bumped-and-released him to slow him down but he's a damn good player. We're not Seattle. They run a 4-3 with rotating fresh edge and inside pass rushers while playing real jam press (with good technique) at the LOS on the outside disrupting the timing of the Broncos play designs (adding more time for the rushers to get there). We are a 3-4 which relies on the discipline of the backend coverage to confuse the QB and force INT's and buy time for coverage sacks with the rushers who's main responsibility is to stop the run. In short, our defensive philosophy is the perfect storm for success for Manning and the type of offense they run and I'm not fully convinced even Aldon would have made that much of a difference in this game. It would be closer with a healthy Bowman, Willis in coverage as well as Brock, Ward, Culliver, etc. Fangio also made some curious personnel moves an choices.

But, IMHO, this is just one team our defensive philosophy doesn't match up well against at all. Manning was damn near perfect (22 of 26 with 3 dropped passes) sitting back there watching his 3 receivers run free and clean and win against 8 defenders, often times open several times at different points of their routes. They set us up well for one TD, went for the throat after the INT (no secret there), used the short passing game to control the game AND tempo/speed, scored inside the RZ and that lead to a worn out defense that started to give up chunks and big TD runs in the 4Q.

It was textbook old-school 49er offensive football. And getting up 21 early allowed the defense to continue to play man, physical, jump routes and bring the pass rush all night long. Tough night for all and hopefully Fangio and the players learn a ton from it.

On offense, well, the only real TD we scored was against a prevent defense late in the first half. They still have a lot to work on even with all those weapons. I know some may chalk this up to just personnel/injuries and that we're fine but to me, we still have a lot of issues esp. on offense.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 22, 2014 at 11:19 AM ]
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by cciowa:
uh yes, i am,, i fail to see how some of you can nitpick a game to death where we had a jv team esp on defense going up against varsity. when you account for those circumstance like the injuries and no aldon, its pretty easy to see why we lost. there is no need to rehash over and over something that is no longer valuable. if the same team we saw sunday is the same team we will see for the rest of the season, ok knock yourself out,, but its not. and yes i am grumpy because i am sick and tired of people who act like sunday is who we are. we got our butt kicked, it happens, if we were full strength it probably would not have occurred but we were not and it did.. you people act like if you talk the damn game to death you can somehow change the outcome. the game means nothing moving forward and maybe you should spend your time not worrying so much about the past but figuring out how to proceed in the future. listening and seeing all of the people jumping off the ledge this week would make anyone grumpy. some of you also may just like to torture yourself

not torcher to me. devastating loss or not I can't wait for this thread. I need logic and film to ease my mind. I need answers
i am simple and stupid,, i just think it was a perfect storm of things that combined and it will not happen again. our team will look different and be alot healthier the next time they see the field than what we were sunday in my opinion. when are we going to have two road games on a short week with all those injuries on both sides of the ball again while running into a team that is peaking right now and whose fan base was not only sky high on pot but the chance of making history with their quarterback who has a stupid neck and a dumb red mark in the middle of his forehead?
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
NC...agree with your post. What I saw in the Bronco game is a team, niners, who couldn't figure out how to replace the coverage of the MLBs and the rush of the OLB who were missing. It's one thing to lose one great player, but losing three of your four all pro LBs...come on now folks, it just isn't reasonable to blame the back ups for not being the starters. If they had been able to make up for the loss of these players it would have taken a huge jump by the DBs...one of whom was returning for his first game after injury.

To use this game to label a player or coach is just sad! Throw this game out and look at the season as a whole...then draw conclusions if you must.

Yep. Can't put this one on the coaches. Coaches 30% Player personnel available 70%.
Originally posted by cciowa:
i am simple and stupid,, i just think it was a perfect storm of things that combined and it will not happen again. our team will look different and be alot healthier the next time they see the field than what we were sunday in my opinion. when are we going to have two road games on a short week with all those injuries on both sides of the ball again while running into a team that is peaking right now and whose fan base was not only sky high on pot but the chance of making history with their quarterback who has a stupid neck and a dumb red mark in the middle of his forehead?

don't care, I still enjoy the breakdowns. This loss doesnt even hurt. nevertheless, I still want to know what went wrong and see how we got beat. Just for this week.
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