Denver Broncos and Bye week coaches film analysis

Originally posted by T-9ers:

Originally posted by SFFanSince72:
One thing that I really like about this throw as said before is that Kap used his eyes to hold the safety in the middle of the field. This is definite improvement from even just a couple of weeks ago.

This play also shows a couple of things that I think Kap could improve. Using a stop watch I timed it and because Looney blew his block, Kap had 1.5 seconds from the time he got the snap to the time he threw the ball. I think if Kap kinda used the principal "the quicker the throw, the shorter the throw" he would make less mistakes like this. The downside being maybe we dont convert as many 3rd downs, but I see this from other QB's.

Overall though, I think opposing defenses are noticing that Kap gets far more comfortable with SOME of his recievers than all of this targets. This can explain why they left Ellington wide open on this play in order to double SJ. If Kap proves to teams at the beginning of the game that he can complete high percentage passes to ALL of his recievers, it keeps the defense honest and makes them play against ALL of the players on the field, not just the known Kap favorites.

But don't you think the depth of the safety was a give away that Ellington was going to have one on one coverage with a lot of space on the under route even before Talib broke off early?

If Talib isn't watching Kap and is playing press/jam press, this pass doesn't get picked off. It may not be completed, but it's not picked off. Talib is clearly in man coverage on Ellington, but decides to cheat back a bit, likely because he was guessing Kap would toss it to SJ if under pressure.

If Kap isn't pressured and gets a cleaner read, I think Talib blows this play and Ellington gets an easy first. Or had Talib played press man and stayed with Ellington, SJ easily beats him man's jam and Kap has a big gain there.

Good play by Denver and Talib. Give them credit.

Originally posted by JoeBart324:

Originally posted by T-9ers:

Originally posted by SFFanSince72:
One thing that I really like about this throw as said before is that Kap used his eyes to hold the safety in the middle of the field. This is definite improvement from even just a couple of weeks ago.

This play also shows a couple of things that I think Kap could improve. Using a stop watch I timed it and because Looney blew his block, Kap had 1.5 seconds from the time he got the snap to the time he threw the ball. I think if Kap kinda used the principal "the quicker the throw, the shorter the throw" he would make less mistakes like this. The downside being maybe we dont convert as many 3rd downs, but I see this from other QB's.

Overall though, I think opposing defenses are noticing that Kap gets far more comfortable with SOME of his recievers than all of this targets. This can explain why they left Ellington wide open on this play in order to double SJ. If Kap proves to teams at the beginning of the game that he can complete high percentage passes to ALL of his recievers, it keeps the defense honest and makes them play against ALL of the players on the field, not just the known Kap favorites.

But don't you think the depth of the safety was a give away that Ellington was going to have one on one coverage with a lot of space on the under route even before Talib broke off early?

If Talib isn't watching Kap and is playing press/jam press, this pass doesn't get picked off. It may not be completed, but it's not picked off. Talib is clearly in man coverage on Ellington, but decides to cheat back a bit, likely because he was guessing Kap would toss it to SJ if under pressure.

If Kap isn't pressured and gets a cleaner read, I think Talib blows this play and Ellington gets an easy first.

Good play by Denver and Talib. Give them credit.

Yeah, thl can probably recognize the whole scheme better but it looked like Talib was playing off like you mentioned while their other corner jammed Stevie at the LOS. We were probably running a go-route there with Johnson to either clear it out underneath for Ellington who crossed under or Stevie was the primary target. Either way, IMHO, the jam forced Stevie off the mark about 2-3 yards wide right at the LOS before he was able to get back online while Talib sat back in center field waiting to break towards Stevie or Ellington. That's just a damn fine veteran play (it's like he's playing S back there). And up 21-10, it's still a little close of a game to take a bit of a risk there...but it worked!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by JoeBart324:

Originally posted by T-9ers:

Originally posted by SFFanSince72:
One thing that I really like about this throw as said before is that Kap used his eyes to hold the safety in the middle of the field. This is definite improvement from even just a couple of weeks ago.

This play also shows a couple of things that I think Kap could improve. Using a stop watch I timed it and because Looney blew his block, Kap had 1.5 seconds from the time he got the snap to the time he threw the ball. I think if Kap kinda used the principal "the quicker the throw, the shorter the throw" he would make less mistakes like this. The downside being maybe we dont convert as many 3rd downs, but I see this from other QB's.

Overall though, I think opposing defenses are noticing that Kap gets far more comfortable with SOME of his recievers than all of this targets. This can explain why they left Ellington wide open on this play in order to double SJ. If Kap proves to teams at the beginning of the game that he can complete high percentage passes to ALL of his recievers, it keeps the defense honest and makes them play against ALL of the players on the field, not just the known Kap favorites.

But don't you think the depth of the safety was a give away that Ellington was going to have one on one coverage with a lot of space on the under route even before Talib broke off early?

If Talib isn't watching Kap and is playing press/jam press, this pass doesn't get picked off. It may not be completed, but it's not picked off. Talib is clearly in man coverage on Ellington, but decides to cheat back a bit, likely because he was guessing Kap would toss it to SJ if under pressure.

If Kap isn't pressured and gets a cleaner read, I think Talib blows this play and Ellington gets an easy first.

Good play by Denver and Talib. Give them credit.

Yeah, thl can probably recognize the whole scheme better but it looked like Talib was playing off like you mentioned while their other corner jammed Stevie at the LOS. We were probably running a go-route there with Johnson to either clear it out underneath for Ellington who crossed under or Stevie was the primary target. Either way, IMHO, the jam forced Stevie off the mark about 2-3 yards wide right at the LOS before he was able to get back online while Talib sat back in center field waiting to break towards Stevie or Ellington. That's just a damn fine veteran play (it's like he's playing S back there). And up 21-10, it's still a little close of a game to take a bit of a risk there...but it worked!

sooo.... what you're saying is, the off coverage by Talib helped him read the route and the QB's eyes so that he could break on the ball, neutralizing both the short and deep throw on 3rd and short at the same time..... JK!!!! just bustin' your balls dude.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by JoeBart324:

Originally posted by T-9ers:

Originally posted by SFFanSince72:
One thing that I really like about this throw as said before is that Kap used his eyes to hold the safety in the middle of the field. This is definite improvement from even just a couple of weeks ago.

This play also shows a couple of things that I think Kap could improve. Using a stop watch I timed it and because Looney blew his block, Kap had 1.5 seconds from the time he got the snap to the time he threw the ball. I think if Kap kinda used the principal "the quicker the throw, the shorter the throw" he would make less mistakes like this. The downside being maybe we dont convert as many 3rd downs, but I see this from other QB's.

Overall though, I think opposing defenses are noticing that Kap gets far more comfortable with SOME of his recievers than all of this targets. This can explain why they left Ellington wide open on this play in order to double SJ. If Kap proves to teams at the beginning of the game that he can complete high percentage passes to ALL of his recievers, it keeps the defense honest and makes them play against ALL of the players on the field, not just the known Kap favorites.

But don't you think the depth of the safety was a give away that Ellington was going to have one on one coverage with a lot of space on the under route even before Talib broke off early?

If Talib isn't watching Kap and is playing press/jam press, this pass doesn't get picked off. It may not be completed, but it's not picked off. Talib is clearly in man coverage on Ellington, but decides to cheat back a bit, likely because he was guessing Kap would toss it to SJ if under pressure.

If Kap isn't pressured and gets a cleaner read, I think Talib blows this play and Ellington gets an easy first.

Good play by Denver and Talib. Give them credit.

Yeah, thl can probably recognize the whole scheme better but it looked like Talib was playing off like you mentioned while their other corner jammed Stevie at the LOS. We were probably running a go-route there with Johnson to either clear it out underneath for Ellington who crossed under or Stevie was the primary target. Either way, IMHO, the jam forced Stevie off the mark about 2-3 yards wide right at the LOS before he was able to get back online while Talib sat back in center field waiting to break towards Stevie or Ellington. That's just a damn fine veteran play (it's like he's playing S back there). And up 21-10, it's still a little close of a game to take a bit of a risk there...but it worked!

sooo.... what you're saying is, the off coverage by Talib helped him read the route and the QB's eyes so that he could break on the ball, neutralizing both the short and deep throw on 3rd and short at the same time..... JK!!!! just bustin' your balls dude.

Absolutely! I appreciate the dig. Thl can speak to this as well but I "am" a big fan of Fangio's exotic off coverage schemes esp. against the Eagles! That's how the pick-at-the-stick happened. But there are times when running this defensive philosophy exclusively can work against you. And this was a nice gif example of how mixing it up can be very effective...one CB jams at the LOS (fairly effectively) while another is playing off waiting for the pressure to force a mistake. Sometimes just being an obstacle and challenging the WR at the LOS is enough to throw off the route and timing and allow the rush an extra .5 a second to get there...also, when CK looks up here, he sees blanket coverage which, for a more experienced QB like Manning, will force him to pull it down and look elsewhere. So good things can happen when you mix it up and challenge the WRs physically. That's my only real point. I am not an extreme guy...I certainly didn't think we should have played in jam-press every single snap nor was I am proponent of bringing heat non-stop. But I was against dropping 7-8 back and only "rushing" 3-4 most of the night. You just can't do that against Manning.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It's never fun to watch your team get completely dominated in every phase of the game. But, that's what happened last Sunday night.

Our starters were missing - and it showed.
I'm really only going to look at the first 3 quarters, because, nothing mattered after the end of the 3rd Qtr.

We'll first start with the positives on offense and work to the negatives and the same with the defense.

Offense:
Positives: Most of Ck's struggles weren't necessarily in reading coverage. When I saw the game live, I thought he had a worse game than he did. Looking at the film, he was in a tough spot most of the night. He did miss a couple throws, but, because of the problems on defense, Denver decided that they were going to try and take away our passing game. Something we haven't seen from many teams. early on in the first half, they played a lot of 2-man coverage, they played a lot of man coverage in general. I think this caught us fairly off guard because hardly anyone tries this defense with us. I'm not sure VD is 100% yet, because, usually when a team plays this defense against us, VD will eat them up all day long. But, he struggled with some of his routes gaining separation because his hips were a little high in/out of his breaks. His routes weren't as sharp as I'm used to seeing them. This gave Denver an advantage early on. Ck did make some good throws to receiver's in 1-1 coverage. But, he was under pressure all night.

Denver's D-line overwhelmed out line most of the night. We couldn't run the ball at all, even against 7 man fronts - which really hurt our passing game. When Denver knew we were going to pass, they were blitzing often while allowed their talented corners to play sticky man coverage. Ck and the receivers still made some great throws and catches, but, you just can't hope for those all night. We weren't able to run the ball, or get CK out in space to take advantage of Denver's aggressiveness. Staley, in particular, played rather poorly. One of the worst games I've seen from him. He got beat in the run game and passing game. I think the loss of Iupati had something to do with it. It seemed like he and Looney weren't in sync throughout the night. There were times, in the run game, where it looked like Staley thought he was gonna get more help on some combo blocks and other things.

In reality, there aren't many teams who are going to be able to take on Denver when the defense is so overwhelmed. This was a game where everything that could go bad leading up to the game went bad and anything that could've got right for us, didn't.

I think we got down so much in the first half that, we were forced out of our element and couldn't keep pace. So, by the 2nd half, Denver put their guys in man coverage with a single safety and brought pressure on almost every down. When I was counting off time to pressure - which is the time Ck had before defenders started to flash towards him uncovered, it was under 2.5 seconds. So, there were some plays where, if he had had at least 3 seconds, he could've made them. But, Denver's pressure was relentless. When you're on the road, in a loud stadium hyped up over Manning's record and a Sunday night game, losing the pieces we did, we didn't stand a chance.

So, I won't spend too much time in this game overall, because I don't think it's very indicative of who we are as a football team or what we can do. That was really a positives and negatives section.... but, since it was kind of a little bit of both game.....

Defense:
Positives: We didn't allow 49 points......

I have a hard time putting much of this at Fangio's feet. I saw us mix up our coverage a lot and none of it worked to fool Manning - he's just that good. We tried quarters, cover 2 zone, cover 2 man, cover 1 man, cover 1 lurk, cover 3 zone, cover 6 zone. None of it worked. There were breakdowns in communication, guys were over-matched, and we couldn't get pressure of any kind on Manning. We did alright against the run game - for the most part. We did give up a huge run, but, our starting front 7 weren't even in on that play. Our defense had gotten so wore down by that point, we were trying to sub guys in. It was like watching a pre-season game where one team has their starters in and the other is playing their backups.....

The defense was playing against a master QB who's craft of the position might be the best there has ever been. When you look at how far ahead Peyton Manning is than even the best TD throwers in the league, it shows you how far above everyone else he is at playing the position. Rodgers, Brees, Brady - not even close in TD's thrown. His ability to move the zone defense with his head is textbook and incredible to watch. His ability to identify the leverage for his receivers in man-coverage is amazing.

Negatives: There were a lot! Our LB's were a huge liability in coverage. Not just on their individual guys, but, in their middle zones when the rest of the team was in man-coverage. Brock really struggled in this game. He got turned around several times, got bullied by D. Thomas when he tried to get physical and gave up the TD to Welker. Our pass rush was non-existent and was pretty much a non-factor.

Overall - it was a sucky game. So, I won't be spending a ton of time on this game as I don't think there's really that much to glean from it. It was a game and a situation I don't think we'll see again for a very long time so, not much good information. I'll touch of some of the missed opportunities and some of the defensive breakdowns and some of the things that went well, but, for the most part, I won't spend as much time as I normally do on a game. Instead, when I move on, I'll be trying to do what our team is doing this week - self scouting and review of the first 7 weeks.

This is a very good general overview and I agree with about 95% of it (you already know the other 5%...LOL). But the bold is very important to note here. I went back to rewatch the abbreviated version of the game (NFLN) which covered about 17 of Mannings 26 passes before he walked off the field for the showers after 3 quarters of play. And I think it's important to note that every single pass was out between 2 and 3 seconds. There was ONE pass that was at 4 seconds and that is b/c Manning faked a handoff and did a full 360-degree spin before throwing to Thomas on a crossing route for 40-50 yards. Feel free to time it yourself. Our two sacks were Lynch at 2.5 seconds (blew by the RT) and Borland at 3 seconds after Manning got tripped up by his own OL and fell down on the ground. So in short, I don't think it's fair to put this game on the pass rush esp. when the majority of the game we wer dropping Brooks and our ILB's (8 in coverage) and only rushing 3. I think perhaps, Fangio said, "There is no way we're going to get there consistently under 3 seconds" so he dropped back and hoped Manning would pull a Romo for us. There IS a way to combat this but...um...we won't go there anymore.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

That's what we're talking about ^. Peyton wears his helmet so tight that the inner padding leaves red marks on his ginormous forehead.

OH lol

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:
But SJ beat the CB cleanly off the line of scrimmage and immediately had a step on the CB. The INT occurred because the pass was overthrown due to Kap throwing off his back foot, like you mentioned. The main reason, though, is because Talib was in perfect position to see the throw the whole way as well as play it. The moment Talib bailed on Ellington, this throw had no chance because SJ was basically double teamed. The INT did not happen because SJ was pressed.

I get that you want to so badly find an example where press coverage can throw off timing, and there are many examples of it every Sunday. This is not one of them.

do you think we play "prevent-a-win" defense giving receivers a clean release?

Every type of CB technique has its strengths and weaknesses so no, the 49ers don't play a "prevent a win" defense by giving WRs a clean release. The only prevent a win defense is playing a style that doesn't suit the skill set of the players. Or trying to teach players a style of play that coaches don't believe in and aren't good at teaching. If the 49er CBs lacked football IQ and didn't understand what Fangio/Donatell are trying to do, then putting them in situations where they have to use their brains, communicate with team mates before and during the play, study opponent tendencies to know what to expect in certain game situations, then that would be the 49ers playing prevent a win defense.

Just for example, and I'm just making this up, but if Daryl Morris (who has been cut from the team) was a dumb CB, and the 49ers tried to fit him into their scheme, that's prevent a win defense. If IND (they play press man a lot) acquired Alterraun Verner (excellent off coverage CB), and tried to play press bump and run with him, that's prevent a win defense. When TB acquired Revis and put him in zone coverage, that's prevent a win defense.

When both styles of man coverage (off coverage vs press) are done correctly, with the correct players, there is no style that's clearly better than the other. It's up to defensive philosophy and the skill set of the defensive players as a unit (front 7 included). Perhaps with the bye week coming, we can look into the pros and cons of each style.

Thank you for the clarification th. It's refreshing to read explanation and analysis where the person actually knows what they're talking about when describing "prevent-a-win" defense.

There is no mystery to beating Payton - PRESSURE with press coverage to take away his quick throw to beat pressure. SEA does it perfectly, NE did it to him for years. Rodney Harrison lays out how to beat him very well.

The question becomes, do you have the horses for getting pressure? Right now, our defense does not! Why would 1 person (Aldon) make all the difference, because then the offensive protection has to bias to Aldon's rush and other guys can get free occassionally. We need him to come roaring back after the suspension.

We also need the defense to reinvigorate pressure from everyone - Brooks, Lynch, JSmith, and even Tank.

Originally posted by HearstFan:
There is no mystery to beating Payton - PRESSURE with press coverage to take away his quick throw to beat pressure. SEA does it perfectly, NE did it to him for years. Rodney Harrison lays out how to beat him very well.

The question becomes, do you have the horses for getting pressure? Right now, our defense does not! Why would 1 person (Aldon) make all the difference, because then the offensive protection has to bias to Aldon's rush and other guys can get free occassionally. We need him to come roaring back after the suspension.

We also need the defense to reinvigorate pressure from everyone - Brooks, Lynch, JSmith, and even Tank.

dont need pressure. Just press/jam them and we win.

To quickly highlight the good areas of the game, aka Stevie Johnson highlight reel. Here are a few nice throws and catches from Kap to SJ.

DEN: either cover1 man or cover3 - the throw happens too quickly for the defensive coverage to fully develop.
Orange are LBs. The LB directly across from Kap is most likely a spy on Kap. Blue is the SS (TJ Ward) covering SJ. Kap should take this matchup any day.


SJ does his patented stutter step and gets TJ Ward leaning to the outside.


SJ cuts back to the inside on the slant.


Perfectly placed pass hits SJ in stride and gives him ability for RAC.


+31 yards

49ers: Triangle stretch (over the middle of the field). Boldin and SJ run a two man all curls. Boldin + VD give Kap a hi-low. Boldin's route is designed to sit in front of the LB level, VD's rout is designed to sit behind the LB level.
DEN: cover3 (I think, based on how the CB covering Boldin reacts. Although the defender on Lloyd is playing man)


Kap takes the snap and immediately looks to SJ who had no one lined up directly in front of him at the snap.


Kap pulls the trigger to SJ who found a quiet area. The two defenders converging on SJ take very odd angles to play the ball.


Both the defenders converging on SJ miss him.


+16 yards.

49ers: double Smash
DEN: Cover 3 pattern match (I think). When an offense spreads the field 5 wide, zone defenders don't have to worry about any underneath routes from RBs leaking out. If the WR they line up across from goes vertical, they can match that WR with no worry about a late release from a RB. This is what happens to the two defenders defending SJ/Boldin on their Corner routes. This is why I think it's cover3 pattern match. The actions of the CBs lined up over Crabs/Lloyd tell me it's cover3 and not cover1 man.



Kap takes the snap and looks to his left. Looney just got spin moved by the DT across from him.


Same moment in time as pic above. SJ is stemming his route to the outside and will end up breaking to the outside. His defender is playing with an inside shade (leverage). This should be a win for SJ. Kap sees the pressure coming at his face and will step up in the pocket between Looney and Staley.


Stepping up while keeping his eyes downfield.


Because Kap steps up and partially rolls to his left, it gives him a much better angle to target SJ who has broken his route towards the outside (Corner route).


+25 yards

49ers look to get a pick play to Kap's right.


Kap takes the snap and looks right. No pick (Boldin) was set as the defender sticks close to VD.


Kap then looks to his left to find SJ.


Kap has good time in the pocket and waits until SJ clears the defender.

Originally posted by thl408:

To quickly highlight the good areas of the game, aka Stevie Johnson highlight reel. Here are a few nice throws and catches from Kap to SJ.

DEN: either cover1 man or cover3 - the throw happens too quickly for the defensive coverage to fully develop.
Orange are LBs. The LB directly across from Kap is most likely a spy on Kap. Blue is the SS (TJ Ward) covering SJ. Kap should take this matchup any day.


SJ does his patented stutter step and gets TJ Ward leaning to the outside.


SJ cuts back to the inside on the slant.


Perfectly placed pass hits SJ in stride and gives him ability for RAC.


+31 yards

SJ has been an absolute steal, to think there was talk that his roster spot was up for grabs coming out of camp. We might be looking at sceniro next season where our 2 starting WRs where acquired for a 6th rounder and a couple of 4ths. Very good value in those trades.

I just love SJ's routes, he always seems to give kap a great target.

Originally posted by Niners816:

SJ has been an absolute steal, to think there was talk that his roster spot was up for grabs coming out of camp. We might be looking at sceniro next season where our 2 starting WRs where acquired for a 6th rounder and a couple of 4ths. Very good value in those trades.

I just love SJ's routes, he always seems to give kap a great target.

Stevie gives Colin a viable 3rd target and if the O Line gives him the time, Colin can spot the 3rd option easily. The problem going 4 wide isn't so much the WR's as it is the pass protection. Two TE sets can help the O linemen by chipping the DE before releasing on their patterns, whereas in a 4 wide set, the O Linemen don't get that help. Then compound that problem with a center thats a rookie and you got serious O Line problems.