St. Louis Rams week 6 coaches film analysis

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Native49erFan:

As I watched the replay, this is where you can tell Kaep isn't a running back lol. Gore or Hyde would have slowed down a sec to allow Boone to take out one of the defenders, cut inside, and perhaps get the Touchdown.

I'm not sure. By the time Boone was at the 15, there were already 4 defenders in pursuit. I would rather Kap never cut back into the grain unless it is a playoff game.

Ya, I agree. He already picked up the 1st. And he avoided the hit. That's all I want there. If it was a must-win game, my mind would change.

Originally posted by znk916:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's a play I consider wide outside the tackle box. Not good.


Here's a play that is off tackle, but not wide outside the tackle box. The 49ers do this quite often. The site where you saw that statistic should make the distinction. They kind of look the same, but you can tell the RB is looking to cut upfield at different areas regarding the tackle box. Kilgore gets caught up and can't cleanly get to the second level. Otherwise this run is designed to go directly off tackle. Hyde bounces it out wider because of this.

Thanks, too bad I can't find the stat. I just remember seeing it either last year or during the offseason that alot of Gore's yds if not the majority were classified as off tackle (not wide). The 2nd play is a perfect example of what should be our bread and butter but I don't feel like we ran it enough this past week. Maybe we didn't feel a need to.

It looks like an outside zone right with a "wrap" call. It helps the Guard with an inside shade, especially if they think a slant right might be called (looks like it was). The slant from the DE gives Boone an easy hook, and Miller does a good job of reading Boone's block to get to the outside. It looks like Kilgore is zoning the LDT with Iupati, but Iupati falls down and Kilgore can't leave in time to reach the LB.

The use of Miller as a lead blocker really speeds up the flow of the LBs and gives Gore additional help at the point of attack. I like this play. If Kilgore reaches his LB, that could've hit big.

Originally posted by znk916:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's a play I consider wide outside the tackle box. Not good.


Here's a play that is off tackle, but not wide outside the tackle box. The 49ers do this quite often. The site where you saw that statistic should make the distinction. They kind of look the same, but you can tell the RB is looking to cut upfield at different areas regarding the tackle box. Kilgore gets caught up and can't cleanly get to the second level. Otherwise this run is designed to go directly off tackle. Hyde bounces it out wider because of this.

Thanks, too bad I can't find the stat. I just remember seeing it either last year or during the offseason that alot of Gore's yds if not the majority were classified as off tackle (not wide). The 2nd play is a perfect example of what should be our bread and butter but I don't feel like we ran it enough this past week. Maybe we didn't feel a need to.

It looks like an outside zone right with a "wrap" call. It helps the Guard with an inside shade, especially if they think a slant right might be called (looks like it was). The slant from the DE gives Boone an easy hook, and Miller does a good job of reading Boone's block to get to the outside. It looks like Kilgore is zoning the LDT with Iupati, but Iupati falls down and Kilgore can't leave in time to reach the LB.

The use of Miller as a lead blocker really speeds up the flow of the LBs and gives Gore additional help at the point of attack. I like this play. If Kilgore reaches his LB, that could've hit big.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:

No problem about more run game analysis. It's odd that on a night where Kap played so well, I was a little more interested in the run game. It's just that I don't think the 49ers had run the ball so often out of that personnel grouping before in any one game. Couple this with how they seemed to run quite a number of zone blocking plays versus KC and we might be seeing some sort of shift to more zone blocking runs. Not more as in the ratio of zone blocking plays compared to power blocking plays, but as in more zone blocking plays compared to the past.

I believe the Rams did make an emphasis of stopping the run game and forcing Kap to beat them, which many here have mentioned. I think there's execution as well as opponent's possibly being tipped off when the 49ers are about to run the ball. That's why the 11 personnel was so effective because any combination of three WRs that the 49ers can field demand respect as route runners. We don't need all22 view to see the run game so I am really interested in what others have to say as well.

As to Roman throwing away plays, that's a tough way to put it, but I think it's true. A running team has to continue to show it is willing to run in order for the opponent to continue thinking they have to devote attention towards stopping it. We all know the 49ers love using play action and that won't be as effective unless the 49ers show in every game that they are willing to pound the rock.

DO you think the diversity of our run game is occasionally a weakness? I wonder occasionally if the diversity of our ground game limits specific mastery. I don't see many teams run the power runs out of as many sets, AND the zone scheme in as many different ways, AND the Man/Iso scheme from multiple sets. Maybe the diversity results in too much hesitation?

I don't think our run game is as diversified as it would seem. G-ro adds a wrinkle here and there to make the defenses think instead of pursue because so much of this offense is misdirection. But all in all to me the runs are pretty basic. Walsh liked to run the 22-z in (a pass play) from a variety of formations and alignments and so it would *look* like many different kinds pass plays, but it was always in substance - the 22-z in. So once the players master the 22-z in, they've essentially mastered many plays instead of just one.

With thl408's GIF's of the all 22 I'm beginning to understand why the absence of Vernon Davis hurts the run game so much. I didn't know he could execute trap blocks all the way across the formations like that.

I think the 49ers run game is extremely diversified. Traps (whams), counters, power play, Iso, outside/inside zone, read-option (inside zone), QB bootlegs, plays that look like a pass play but is a designed QB run, jet sweeps. They do it all. The only thing they don't do is toss sweeps. Is there anything you'd like to see them do that you feel is missing?

It's diversified as an NFL level team that is a run heavy team. The point I was trying to make is that the formations and different alignments and motions can make a simple basic inside trap play look like several different kinds of plays.

This offense relies on misdirection. If there is a pass deficiency - it's that the outside WR's simply don't have the speed I'd like them to have to operate a vertical passing game.

On the run side, I still say our inside run game would be much more dominating if we had a more powerful center. As for a particular run play, if a defending team is loading up against the inside power run, I'd like the 49ers to attack outside the tackles either with the counter trey or the green bay sweep. I know our O linemen are more lumbering than the agile and speedy linemen that are needed to the the sweep, but I think it's a great way to out flank a defense geared to stop any inside runs.

Originally posted by thl408:
Here is the big Kap scramble on the opening drive of the second half (Boldin TD). Going back to the KC game and what jonnydel mentioned in post#10

jonnydel wrote:
"The safety over Miller see's Miller stay in to block so he comes on a blitz - some teams with play it that way. If you're man stays in to block - you blitz. We tend to drop our guys into zone if their man stays in to block."

There are three things a defender could be asked to do when he sees that his man coverage assignment stays in to give additional pass protection. Usually a LB with a man coverage assignment on a RB/TE. This was also touched on in the KC thread with a play example.
1. Blitz
2. Play Zone coverage in the middle of the field - 49er defenders do this a lot.
3. Crowd the line of scrimmage (fake blitz but stay disciplined with man coverage) - this was seen versus KC as KC crowded the line of scrimmage to discourage Kap from scrambling. I think this is what we see in the play below. Or the defender could be blitzing, not sure.

49ers: Drive concept over the middle + (I think) a high-low read to Kap's right, but SJ (orange) will slip and fall down on his route.
STL: Man coverage. When a defense plays man coverage, they have 2 spare defenders to use (assuming 4 man pass rush). The Rams choose to spy Kap with one of the spare defenders, and double team SJ with the other spare defender.


Kap drops back and looks to his right. The blue line indicates that the LB has man coverage on Hyde. He sees that Hyde does not immediately release into a route, so that defender starts creeping up to the line of scrimmage. I think he is executing option #3 from the list above on what a defender can do if his man assignment stays in to pass block. Orange is the spy.


Kap red lights the routes on the right side and looks to the Drive concept (VD's In route + Crab's shallow crosser). Both are covered. Hyde has released into a route and the LB assigned to Hyde must honor his man coverage assignment. He has turned to run with Hyde.


Kap tucks to scramble just as Crab's crosser coincidentally sets a pick on the orange spy.


Crab's "accidental" pick puts the orange spy a few steps behind Kap. The defender assigned to Hyde has yet to turn around to see that Kap is scrambling.


Even when a spy is assigned to Kap, he rips off a chunk gain with his legs. This is why I think teams will need to play more zone in the middle of the field. The coverage here - man coverage all around, with a spy assigned on Kap - is still a mismatch. Gain of +23

I love that you touched on this play. I saw the same thing. When I looked at it I thought, "wow, they even had a "spy" on Kap and he still ripped em for 23 yards lol!" I remember that happening in the Green Bay game where he gashed em for 181 yards. They had a "spy" on him and were trying to play man coverage and he set an nfl record..... That's why we tend to see so much zone.

This is SJ's biggest catch of the game - on the 49ers third drive of the second half (result in Crabs TD catch). This play shows just how paranoid opponents are of Kap's scrambling. Kap had already gashed them for a 23 yard scramble earlier in the half.

49ers: mirroring slant-flat combination to each side of the field. Basic man coverage buster. Notice the 6 yard cushion given to SJ.
STL: cover 1


Kap takes the snap and looks to his left. He sees that the CB on SJ is back peddling. The only thing stopping the slant to SJ is if an underneath defender can play the passing lane. The orange arrow indicates how far that defender has moved since the snap of the ball. He is the spy on Kap and needs to be more head up (directly in front of) on Kap to be in a better position in case Kap scrambles. The blue lines denote the man coverage responsibilities of each defender. Spread formation leads to predictable coverage: 4 pass rushing, 5 in coverage, 1 deep safety, 1 spy.


Because of the spread formation (11 personnel as Gore is a slot WR), there is no way that the orange spy can play both as a spy and the passing lane. Because he honors his spy assignment, he makes the passing lane to the slant available. Kap is mid windup. SJ is about to become open as soon as he clears Gore's defender, who is following Gore to the flat.


SJ just caught the ball. Orange can't do anything but look.


Gain of +20


Notice the two LBs communicate who has spy duty. It has to be the way it turned out (#55 on VD) because VD is aligned to the right of the formation.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by znk916:

Originally posted by thl408:
No problem about more run game analysis. It's odd that on a night where Kap played so well, I was a little more interested in the run game. It's just that I don't think the 49ers had run the ball so often out of that personnel grouping before in any one game. Couple this with how they seemed to run quite a number of zone blocking plays versus KC and we might be seeing some sort of shift to more zone blocking runs. Not more as in the ratio of zone blocking plays compared to power blocking plays, but as in more zone blocking plays compared to the past.

I believe the Rams did make an emphasis of stopping the run game and forcing Kap to beat them, which many here have mentioned. I think there's execution as well as opponent's possibly being tipped off when the 49ers are about to run the ball. That's why the 11 personnel was so effective because any combination of three WRs that the 49ers can field demand respect as route runners. We don't need all22 view to see the run game so I am really interested in what others have to say as well.

As to Roman throwing away plays, that's a tough way to put it, but I think it's true. A running team has to continue to show it is willing to run in order for the opponent to continue thinking they have to devote attention towards stopping it. We all know the 49ers love using play action and that won't be as effective unless the 49ers show in every game that they are willing to pound the rock.

Out of the 27 carries that Gore/Hyde got, how many were designed to go outside of the tackles? Just offhand I feel like we didn't even bother to threaten the edges, which is mind boggling considering that a huge chunk of our run yards come off tackle, as per PFF or FO, I can't recall which.

Directly off tackle, for this game, I would give a ballpark estimate of 10 or more. Wide outside of the tackles were very few - I can remember 1 off the top of my head as I type this. There were two times that the 49ers faked the stretch run and it resulted in having Vance/VD being wide open (one was Vance fumble). So teams are respecting the outside run even if it's not warranted.

About runs wide outside the tackles, I think the days of offensive guards leading the sweep are over. DLs and LBs are too fast for that now. Most runs wide to the outside are going to be zone blocking runs. So unless the 49ers call more of these outside zone plays and the edge is available to be taken, we may not see it much with this 49er team. Their OL is more lumbering and powerful than they are agile. The PFF/OF stat that says the 49ers had chunk plays on outside runs, was that just for RBs or did it include QB runs? Also, it needs to make the distinction of directly off tackle, or wide outside the tackle box. Directly off tackle, the 49ers run that quite often. Wide outside the tackle box, not so much.

Agree on the same level too. We tend to run a lot inside-out. We'll look to pound the inside and our backs do have the option to bounce it outside if the inside lanes are stacked. You'll see our edge blockers, if they have completely lost leverage inside on their block will try and drive their guy as far inside as they can - to allow for the outside bounce. Our backs have to be very decisive in what they do, because, when you run this way, you have to hit your holes hard and run through them. So, generally, our backs will take the few yards or even a yard and be decisive, but, every once in a while, you'll see a big gash run when they bounce it outside.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:
No problem about more run game analysis. It's odd that on a night where Kap played so well, I was a little more interested in the run game. It's just that I don't think the 49ers had run the ball so often out of that personnel grouping before in any one game. Couple this with how they seemed to run quite a number of zone blocking plays versus KC and we might be seeing some sort of shift to more zone blocking runs. Not more as in the ratio of zone blocking plays compared to power blocking plays, but as in more zone blocking plays compared to the past.

I believe the Rams did make an emphasis of stopping the run game and forcing Kap to beat them, which many here have mentioned. I think there's execution as well as opponent's possibly being tipped off when the 49ers are about to run the ball. That's why the 11 personnel was so effective because any combination of three WRs that the 49ers can field demand respect as route runners. We don't need all22 view to see the run game so I am really interested in what others have to say as well.

As to Roman throwing away plays, that's a tough way to put it, but I think it's true. A running team has to continue to show it is willing to run in order for the opponent to continue thinking they have to devote attention towards stopping it. We all know the 49ers love using play action and that won't be as effective unless the 49ers show in every game that they are willing to pound the rock.

DO you think the diversity of our run game is occasionally a weakness? I wonder occasionally if the diversity of our ground game limits specific mastery. I don't see many teams run the power runs out of as many sets, AND the zone scheme in as many different ways, AND the Man/Iso scheme from multiple sets. Maybe the diversity results in too much hesitation?

I don't think our run game is as diversified as it would seem. G-ro adds a wrinkle here and there to make the defenses think instead of pursue because so much of this offense is misdirection. But all in all to me the runs are pretty basic. Walsh liked to run the 22-z in (a pass play) from a variety of formations and alignments and so it would *look* like many different kinds pass plays, but it was always in substance - the 22-z in. So once the players master the 22-z in, they've essentially mastered many plays instead of just one.

With thl408's GIF's of the all 22 I'm beginning to understand why the absence of Vernon Davis hurts the run game so much. I didn't know he could execute trap blocks all the way across the formations like that.

I think the 49ers run game is extremely diversified. Traps (whams), counters, power play, Iso, outside/inside zone, read-option (inside zone), QB bootlegs, plays that look like a pass play but is a designed QB run, jet sweeps. They do it all. The only thing they don't do is toss sweeps. Is there anything you'd like to see them do that you feel is missing?

It's diversified as an NFL level team that is a run heavy team. The point I was trying to make is that the formations and different alignments and motions can make a simple basic inside trap play look like several different kinds of plays.

This offense relies on misdirection. If there is a pass deficiency - it's that the outside WR's simply don't have the speed I'd like them to have to operate a vertical passing game.

On the run side, I still say our inside run game would be much more dominating if we had a more powerful center. As for a particular run play, if a defending team is loading up against the inside power run, I'd like the 49ers to attack outside the tackles either with the counter trey or the green bay sweep. I know our O linemen are more lumbering than the agile and speedy linemen that are needed to the the sweep, but I think it's a great way to out flank a defense geared to stop any inside runs.

I agree that the same run blocking concept is run from many different formations and the 49ers do this well. That's just how the run game is though. There are only so many run blocking concepts. Much less than route combinations in the passing game. Agree on the center position. Kilgore is doing an admirable job, but I want a dominating presence. Good thing Marcus Martin is that guy.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by znk916:

Originally posted by thl408:
No problem about more run game analysis. It's odd that on a night where Kap played so well, I was a little more interested in the run game. It's just that I don't think the 49ers had run the ball so often out of that personnel grouping before in any one game. Couple this with how they seemed to run quite a number of zone blocking plays versus KC and we might be seeing some sort of shift to more zone blocking runs. Not more as in the ratio of zone blocking plays compared to power blocking plays, but as in more zone blocking plays compared to the past.

I believe the Rams did make an emphasis of stopping the run game and forcing Kap to beat them, which many here have mentioned. I think there's execution as well as opponent's possibly being tipped off when the 49ers are about to run the ball. That's why the 11 personnel was so effective because any combination of three WRs that the 49ers can field demand respect as route runners. We don't need all22 view to see the run game so I am really interested in what others have to say as well.

As to Roman throwing away plays, that's a tough way to put it, but I think it's true. A running team has to continue to show it is willing to run in order for the opponent to continue thinking they have to devote attention towards stopping it. We all know the 49ers love using play action and that won't be as effective unless the 49ers show in every game that they are willing to pound the rock.

Out of the 27 carries that Gore/Hyde got, how many were designed to go outside of the tackles? Just offhand I feel like we didn't even bother to threaten the edges, which is mind boggling considering that a huge chunk of our run yards come off tackle, as per PFF or FO, I can't recall which.

Directly off tackle, for this game, I would give a ballpark estimate of 10 or more. Wide outside of the tackles were very few - I can remember 1 off the top of my head as I type this. There were two times that the 49ers faked the stretch run and it resulted in having Vance/VD being wide open (one was Vance fumble). So teams are respecting the outside run even if it's not warranted.

About runs wide outside the tackles, I think the days of offensive guards leading the sweep are over. DLs and LBs are too fast for that now. Most runs wide to the outside are going to be zone blocking runs. So unless the 49ers call more of these outside zone plays and the edge is available to be taken, we may not see it much with this 49er team. Their OL is more lumbering and powerful than they are agile. The PFF/OF stat that says the 49ers had chunk plays on outside runs, was that just for RBs or did it include QB runs? Also, it needs to make the distinction of directly off tackle, or wide outside the tackle box. Directly off tackle, the 49ers run that quite often. Wide outside the tackle box, not so much.

Agree on the same level too. We tend to run a lot inside-out. We'll look to pound the inside and our backs do have the option to bounce it outside if the inside lanes are stacked. You'll see our edge blockers, if they have completely lost leverage inside on their block will try and drive their guy as far inside as they can - to allow for the outside bounce. Our backs have to be very decisive in what they do, because, when you run this way, you have to hit your holes hard and run through them. So, generally, our backs will take the few yards or even a yard and be decisive, but, every once in a while, you'll see a big gash run when they bounce it outside.

Inside out. Good term to use. Many times I see Gore get behind a pulling guard and place one hand on the guards butt. Get low, follow, read that block and then burst off of that block. The OL is doing what you described.

Originally posted by thl408:
Post #42 showed a good example of a well timed blitz backed up by good coverage. This is Brooks' other sack and it again came on a very well timed blitz. Well timed as in he disguised his blitz and didn't show that he was coming till the very last second.

This is on STL's second drive of the game. The sack ends up resulting in an STL punt on this set of downs.
1Q 1st & 10

STL does some pre-snap motion all the while Brooks lines up with outside leverage on the slot WR - nothing to suggest he is about to blitz. #88 is the TE Kendricks. SF shows cover 6 (notice different alignment of safeties), but will reveal cover1 as soon as the ball is snapped.


Brooks finally shows that he is coming right before the snap. The picture below is right after the snap.


Since Brooks timed his blitz so well, it gives him momentum leaning forward. He continues that momentum with a good old fashioned bull rush.


He simply overpowers the TE and gets the sack for -7 yards.




The TE had no chance.

This sack remined me SO much of how SD used to use Shawn Merriman back in the day. They'd line him up off the LOS and allow him to get a running start at the OT/TE. B/c of his momentum he's either in position to bull rush OR slide right by him with speed/quickness. This method caused a lot of false starts as well. Then they switched it up and made him the free rusher where he'd walk back and forth behind the DL pre-snap and out wide from SAM to WILL and look to shoot a gap/weakness. Momentum and deception is the key!

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
thl + jd :

Some requests:

1) What are your thoughts on the fourth down calls this game? I hated both of them and felt like we were giving the opponents a chance to feel good about themselves when we didn't have to.

2) On the fourth down calls what did you think of the actual play calls?

3) Also, there was one play in the second half -- I can't recall exactly which play -- where kap got blitzed heavy and not a single receiver cut their route short. I think the play ended adversely for us. Maybe it was a third down not sure. It struck me as weird because all the routes were downfield and we didn't need that much for a first down. The call in that situation was a good example of our home run mentality but I was surprised that no one one went hot. Do we have that kind of communication in our offense? I would have thought it would be built in to any pro offense. Maybe I'm reading too much into one play.

Thx.

1,2. If I have time today I'll show the 1st 4th down play that was stuffed - I think it was a "check with me" run play. Where the QB will call the hole the play will go to at the LOS based off alignment.

3. One thing about the WCO is there are no "hot routes" in that the receiver will sight adjust their route to a different route based off a defensive blitz. That's like the Mike Martz "Air Coryell" offense. Where, for example, the "X" Receiver will immediately turn whatever route he's running into a short curl against a corner blitz off his side. What we have are defense adjusted routes - meaning, the route will remain the same, but change it's depth and timing just a bit to what the defense is doing. Here's an example from Bill Walsh:


You see how the route is all a slant patter - but, there's 6 ways to run it based off of coverage.

So, what we'll generally have is, instead of a "hot route" we'll have a "hot receiver". The difference is, instead of the a route changing, there's usually one receiver that's a designated, "hot" receiver on the play. That's the route that the QB has to be alert as the route he's to throw to in case of an unexpected blitz. The receiver himself has to understand that too and turn and look for the ball sooner. Sometimes, when they're all deep routes, it's to go to the outside receiver on a deep ball - like in the S. Johnson play I showed earlier. The play was almost there for a big gain. Sometimes, with mobile QB's, it's the QB's legs that are the hot checkdown. Depends on the particular play and unfortunately, without the playbook or being in the meetings, we can't know for certain on some given plays.

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's Skuta's strip sack. It was also a drive killer as STL had to punt at the end of this set of downs.

2Q 1st & 10
Fumble recovered by STL. Loss of -8.


Anyone feel free to breakdown Skuta's technique here versus the left tackle Jake Long. I know there are posters here that really know the intricacies of pass rushing.

This is just textbook. Notice how he swings out wide a bit before he dips into the OT? This is to give him extra momentum. He dips his left shoulder square into the chest of the OT and uses his right (free) arm to rip through any arm contact to easily slide by him and like any good pass rusher, he goes for the strip first/contact second!

Originally posted by thl408:
I agree that the same run blocking concept is run from many different formations and the 49ers do this well. That's just how the run game is though. There are only so many run blocking concepts. Much less than route combinations in the passing game. Agree on the center position. Kilgore is doing an admirable job, but I want a dominating presence. Good thing Marcus Martin is that guy.

I agree. Where I think this proves your diversity statement (and mine) is that the same run from different sets often assigns different responsibilities to different players. If we call a counter from a set where Miller is in a play side FB offset, he will ISO lead in a straight path. If he is in a back side wing, he will iso pull like the back side guard would on a power play. If he us aligned as a frontside wing or TE, he becomes part of the down-blocking phase on the front side. Same guy, same play, but different technique based upon alignment, so it's essentially an additional play for him to know.

What I loved about this game was we seen each WR have a pretty big play from a traditional WCO concept/route.

Boldin had a big pick up on flanker drive, where kap climbed the pocket nicely and boldin popped wide open. Crabs had the long td on the good ole "Dino" route. And SJ had a nice catch on dragon (slant-flat). It's always nice to see the tried and true concepts still work yards later.

Here's the Crabs TD catch using the 'Dino' route described as a post-corner-post triple move.

STL: cover 0


Kap drops back and confirms no deep safety. Crabs makes his first move - a cut to the post (slant since it's still short range). The CB is comfortable with Crabs breaking to the slant because he knows he has help underneath with his team mate playing the passing lane to the slant. The CB remains over the top with outside leverage.


Crabs breaks towards the Corner. This pushes the CB outwards, towards the sideline. STL rushes 6.


With the CB leaning towards the sidelines, Crabs breaks towards the inside on the Post.


With no deep safety, Kap can comfortably lead Crabs to the middle of the field.


32 yard TD.


Very nice blitz pickup. I rag on Boone a lot so I have to point out here that he somehow gets his man to the ground.