KC Chiefs coaches film analysis

jonnydel and thl408

What is your take on our Red Zone offense ?

Is it bad execution (players), bad play calling (Roman / Harbaugh), bad play design (Roman / Morton / Chryst) or most definitely a combination of things ?

I just can´t wrap my head around our Red Zone failures. Despite changes at key positions over the last few years we are still average at best when it comes to red zone scoring percentage.


Red Zone Scoring Percentage

2014
44.44 percent ( 25th in the NFL )

2013
53.03 percent ( 15th in the NFL )

2012
54.69 percent ( 15th in th NFL )

2011
40.68 percent ( 30th in the NFL )



Thanks in advance and excellent work so far !

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

We do do that(haha doodoo...) But, like you've mentioned before, if we did it a lot, it'd be predictable. We do it about every other game or so.

Lol. You two are too much tonight! But we do do it? Hmmmm...will take your word on it but I don't remember ever seeing that design (memory isn't the best though).

well, our design is slightly different, but it's the same basic play. We'll do it with Boldin or Crabs out with a TE and WR to block. I mean really, Boldin is like a fast TE with the ball in his hands.

Originally posted by DeUh:
jonnydel and thl408

What is your take on our Red Zone offense ?

Is it bad execution (players), bad play calling (Roman / Harbaugh), bad play design (Roman / Morton / Chryst) or most definitely a combination of things ?

I just can´t wrap my head around our Red Zone failures. Despite changes at key positions over the last few years we are still average at best when it comes to red zone scoring percentage.


Red Zone Scoring Percentage

2014
44.44 percent ( 25th in the NFL )

2013
53.03 percent ( 15th in the NFL )

2012
54.69 percent ( 15th in th NFL )

2011
40.68 percent ( 30th in the NFL )



Thanks in advance and excellent work so far !

Combination of things: We've had an inordinate amount of negative plays in the red zone - false starts have been bad this year - which, after we lose 5 yards, we're pretty much done for, blown blocking assignments to give up a sack, bad timing on some zone read calls that come out little or negative yards, delay of game penalties..... we've had a lot of negative plays and the red zone is the hardest area to make up for a negative play.

Not sure why we're having all the negative plays in the red zone, guys might be pressing, wanting to score that TD.

one example(I'll show it later) is, we got in the red zone and then ran the read-option. The DE clearly freezes in coverage of CK. When that happens, CK is supposed to hand the ball off, instead, he kept it for a loss of 2 yards.....

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Combination of things: We've had an inordinate amount of negative plays in the red zone - false starts have been bad this year - which, after we lose 5 yards, we're pretty much done for, blown blocking assignments to give up a sack, bad timing on some zone read calls that come out little or negative yards, delay of game penalties..... we've had a lot of negative plays and the red zone is the hardest area to make up for a negative play.

Not sure why we're having all the negative plays in the red zone, guys might be pressing, wanting to score that TD.

one example(I'll show it later) is, we got in the red zone and then ran the read-option. The DE clearly freezes in coverage of CK. When that happens, CK is supposed to hand the ball off, instead, he kept it for a loss of 2 yards.....

For all of the tough talk we have centered around the run, we still struggle to produce on the ground when opponents know the run is coming (this is obviously the case for most teams, not just us). That we shrink the playbook in the Red Zone doesn't help. When Johnson was the OC, he had a completely separate Red Zone playbook, according to Alex. We rarely got into the Red Zone, lol, but when we did, we usually got TDs. Roman uses the same plays that he uses between the 20s, but eliminates several options because they don't fit the limited vertical space very well, or because he favors certain run plays in short yardage (the tighter DL gaps affect this, too). This results in an offense that is more predictable in the Red Zone, limiting any schematic advantage that our team should have. Add to that predictable play calling (hey guys, we're gonna run on first down!!!) and anything other than PA pass from our Jumbo set, and you have a recipe for frequent negative plays. We tend to succeed with 1st down PA pass, especially when we get Colin to the edge. Obviously we can't do this all the time, but doing it more frequently should also cause hesitation by the defense in flowing to the play side of any run plays. incorporating the occasional throwback to Gore/Hyde on these plays further constipates defensive flow. Any hesitation should equal points.

I liked Jim's thinking on the naked boot, but Hali is a vet, and he is capable of varying his pursuit and depth of penetration. If he stops a run with over-pursuit on one play, it's not a great idea to assume that's how he's playing his reads all game. If he did it for the whole drive, the boot makes more sense. Giving Colin a receiving option rolling with him (slam arrow?) would have put A LOT more strain on the defense.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by thl408:
Dynamite writeup jonnydel. Not much too much to add.

KC mainly played coverage much like ARI did. That is, man on the outside with zone/spies over the middle. The difference in offensive gameplan between ARI and KC is that the 49ers didn't go spread versus KC. So we didn't see all those short curl routes over the middle that we saw versus ARI. It appears teams are very careful not to let Kap's scrambling ability beat them. Whenever KC played man coverage all around, KC would bring their LBs, who are covering the RBs, close up to the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball. This gives the impression of a blitz, and it clogs up scrambling lanes for Kap, which is what a defense usually gives up when they play man coverage all around the field. So even though they aren't blitzing, the LBs are close to the line of scrimmage, with their eyes on their man assignment (RB), clogging scrambling lanes to discourage Kap's legs. A drawback of this is the LBs can't play the passing lanes because they are too shallow. The big Boldin catch and run (+27 yards) was an example of this.

I agree that 'food was left on the table'. There were two instances where I thought Kap could have hit some deep TD passes. In one instance he looked backside immediately after the snap. This was the near pick6 in the 1st quarter. The other was on one of the plays in the horrific offensive sequence where they were 1st & 10 on the KC 20 yard line, then went offside (-5 yards), sack (-2), read/option (-2), sack (-5). Dawson to the rescue with another 50+ yarder. I'll try to hit these.

If there was ever a game that illustrated why the 49ers need a deep WR threat, it's this one. The 49er ground game was rolling, they tried to use playaction to hit some deep throws and the separation just wasn't there in most instances. Lloyds's amazing catch was a great individual effort. He did make one catch down the sideline where he had good separation on a double move, but a speed threat on this team, from the WR position, would scare defenses silly.

In the second half, the 49er defense did an excellent job getting off the field on 3rd downs even though KC had very manageable distances. I'll try to hit these 3rd down stops.

This, the lack of a deep threat is brutal, simply because of what it would force teams to do defensively, putting them in an even worse spot.

Guys, I'm right there with you. Not that I think it will happen, but the next draft should be sacrificed, if need be, for one top flight, great production, fast receiver.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really match Baalke's draft strategy. If anything, I think he looks in FA.

Agreed...Lockette, Ginn, Moore, Moss, etc. This is where he gets his "speed" guys. We just never use them in that capacity...like...ever. You can probably add Ellington into the mix now as well but we haven't seen an attempt yet so...?

I would love to see a film breakdown comparing the offense now to the offense in 2012 after Kap came in and was setting the world on fire. One of the theories floated here is that the presence of multiple vertical threats in Moss, Ginn, VD, and Delanie opened things up for all those underneath throws to Crabtree and made the whole offense work. Does that show up in the film? Is it the OLine that was performing better and giving Kap more time for all of those downfield routes to come open? Or have defenses just adjusted to Kap and our offense in some way that we have yet to fully account for?

We lack the precision in our passing game it takes to consistently score in the red zone. I'm not sure why we would expect more rz production from a team in the bottom half of most passing statistical categories, this is probably the average for most teams who don't excel in passing.

Originally posted by DeUh:
jonnydel and thl408

What is your take on our Red Zone offense ?

Is it bad execution (players), bad play calling (Roman / Harbaugh), bad play design (Roman / Morton / Chryst) or most definitely a combination of things ?

I just can´t wrap my head around our Red Zone failures. Despite changes at key positions over the last few years we are still average at best when it comes to red zone scoring percentage.


Red Zone Scoring Percentage

2014
44.44 percent ( 25th in the NFL )

2013
53.03 percent ( 15th in the NFL )

2012
54.69 percent ( 15th in th NFL )

2011
40.68 percent ( 30th in the NFL )



Thanks in advance and excellent work so far !

There is a study on the red zone issues of the 13-14 team in this thread, in case it was missed: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/178822-all22-analysis-red-zone-issues. Anyone can formulate their own take from that.

To me, it is indeed a combination of things and to single any one point of failure out would not be seeing the entire picture. If I had a gun to my head and had to assign "blame" based on percentage, my personal observation would be this, in regards to scoring FGs instead of TDs in the red zone (20 yard line and in):

Kap: 50%
playcalling/design: 30%
Other player's execution/penalties: 20%

There is a reason I put Kap at 50%. I don't think he has the anticipation to throw into tight windows just yet. 'Tight windows' might be the wrong term. It's more like closed windows that are about to become open. This is a must, imo, to have an offense that consistently scores TDs in the red zone passing the ball. Taking a look at the touchdown thread (http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/178322-all22-look-all-touchdowns) you'll see that there was a grand total of 2 TD throws that came from Kap reading the concept side and making a throw on rhythm. It was touchdown #6 and touchdown #8 (even #6 is a maybe). Every other red zone TD throw came in the following forms:

1. backside WR isolation (pre-snap read is 1v1 with no safety help, give the WR a chance with a back shoulder throw)
2. Scramble drill (play did not succeed the way it was drawn up)
3. Playaction with one route being ran (VD in back of end zone is the main example)

None of these type of throws require much post-snap read and react where Kap needs to read how the defense is reacting to a certain route combination, then make the correct throw. Compare these throws with touchdown #6 and #8 where Kap reads the defense/leverage of defenders and makes a nice throw. Most times we see Kap dropback, not pull the trigger, then it's scramble drill time. Sometimes no one is open, sometimes Kap is slow to see the window open. Just talking about red zone TD throws as Kap threw a number of TDs from outside the 20 yard line.

I agree with WRATH that the coaches do seem to shrink the playbook when inside the red zone. Is it because they go potato or is it because they see Kap's limitations at this stage in his development? My take above answers that question.

As far as the running game in the red zone, it's known that running is harder because the safeties can run support so much easier when they don't have to worry about getting beat deep. The 49ers are good inside the 5 running the ball because of how their Oline is built - advantage of power run scheme.

And another reason the 49er's may be ranked low is because they play good defenses in their division. That doesn't explain this year's woes, more last year. DeUh, please feel free to take a look at the "red zone issues" thread and reply with your conclusion. I'd like to hear what you think, as well as others. Sure, last year is last year, but it might give us a clue as to anything that has carried over into this year.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

We do do that(haha doodoo...) But, like you've mentioned before, if we did it a lot, it'd be predictable. We do it about every other game or so.

Lol. You two are too much tonight! But we do do it? Hmmmm...will take your word on it but I don't remember ever seeing that design (memory isn't the best though).

well, our design is slightly different, but it's the same basic play. We'll do it with Boldin or Crabs out with a TE and WR to block. I mean really, Boldin is like a fast TE with the ball in his hands.

Also, those tight ends were clearly blocking way before the pass. That's illegal and should be called most of the time.

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
Also, those tight ends were clearly blocking way before the pass. That's illegal and should be called most of the time.

Amazing how so many people, including the refs, missed that. Those guys were blocking before and during the pass. Phil Simms pointed it out right away. That first Chiefs td should have been a 10 yard penalty.

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

We do do that(haha doodoo...) But, like you've mentioned before, if we did it a lot, it'd be predictable. We do it about every other game or so.

Lol. You two are too much tonight! But we do do it? Hmmmm...will take your word on it but I don't remember ever seeing that design (memory isn't the best though).

well, our design is slightly different, but it's the same basic play. We'll do it with Boldin or Crabs out with a TE and WR to block. I mean really, Boldin is like a fast TE with the ball in his hands.

Also, those tight ends were clearly blocking way before the pass. That's illegal and should be called most of the time.

I agree...and thought the same thing (we got away with a lot as well though so I can't complain). Either way, I liked the design (quick strike) and the personnel they used to get in (we had no chance).

Originally posted by CornellU49er:
I would love to see a film breakdown comparing the offense now to the offense in 2012 after Kap came in and was setting the world on fire. One of the theories floated here is that the presence of multiple vertical threats in Moss, Ginn, VD, and Delanie opened things up for all those underneath throws to Crabtree and made the whole offense work. Does that show up in the film? Is it the OLine that was performing better and giving Kap more time for all of those downfield routes to come open? Or have defenses just adjusted to Kap and our offense in some way that we have yet to fully account for?

I would imagine most forget that CK was brand new to the NFL...NOBODY knew what to expect (even our own coaches as they admitted to). Even our running game smoke-and-mirror show was fooling everyone. Fast forward to now and DC's have figured out how to stop us and using our own tendencies and personnel packages against us (IF they do X, we do Y).

Pretty much all you have to do now is stack the box and run blitz between the tackles stuffing the run and pressuring CK putting us in 2nd and 10+ (b/c we run on first downs right up the middle), then on 2nd and 3rd downs, assign a spy to CK and move your LB's just off the DE's to help contain CK and the read-option and then cover the deep straight-line go-routes focused 80% of the time on sideline passes (i.e. if you have a pass rush, bring it but bring it with caution so as not to leave lanes for CK to run through - play disciplined gap control). Done!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

We do do that(haha doodoo...) But, like you've mentioned before, if we did it a lot, it'd be predictable. We do it about every other game or so.

Lol. You two are too much tonight! But we do do it? Hmmmm...will take your word on it but I don't remember ever seeing that design (memory isn't the best though).

well, our design is slightly different, but it's the same basic play. We'll do it with Boldin or Crabs out with a TE and WR to block. I mean really, Boldin is like a fast TE with the ball in his hands.

Also, those tight ends were clearly blocking way before the pass. That's illegal and should be called most of the time.

I agree...and thought the same thing (we got away with a lot as well though so I can't complain). Either way, I liked the design (quick strike) and the personnel they used to get in (we had no chance).

I was under the impression that the rule applied to downfield blocking, otherwise all PA passing would be PI, if the TE was involved in the run fake/pass pro. I think within 1 (disengaged) to 3(engaged) yards from the LOS, you can block through the play. Maybe it's different on the perimeter, but I don't think so.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

We do do that(haha doodoo...) But, like you've mentioned before, if we did it a lot, it'd be predictable. We do it about every other game or so.

Lol. You two are too much tonight! But we do do it? Hmmmm...will take your word on it but I don't remember ever seeing that design (memory isn't the best though).

well, our design is slightly different, but it's the same basic play. We'll do it with Boldin or Crabs out with a TE and WR to block. I mean really, Boldin is like a fast TE with the ball in his hands.

Also, those tight ends were clearly blocking way before the pass. That's illegal and should be called most of the time.

I agree...and thought the same thing (we got away with a lot as well though so I can't complain). Either way, I liked the design (quick strike) and the personnel they used to get in (we had no chance).

I was under the impression that the rule applied to downfield blocking, otherwise all PA passing would be PI, if the TE was involved in the run fake/pass pro. I think within 1 (disengaged) to 3(engaged) yards from the LOS, you can block through the play. Maybe it's different on the perimeter, but I don't think so.

You're probably right but my understanding was you can't start blocking until the pass...or is it the catch? So distance may matter here? So confusing...

Originally posted by thl408:
So let's try a swing screen to the RB.

Cue the music:

3Q: 1st & 10
This play incorporates bad design with bad blocking. Miller and JMart will lead the convoy for Gore to receive a quick swing pass to the right edge of the formation. Blue is assigned to Boldin. Orange (backside LB) is the other defender to keep an eye on on this play.


Back to jonnydel's point of Kap not looking away before eventually throwing to where he knows he will be throwing. Vance gets into his crossing to draw defenders away from where the play is going. Kap does the same thing here and doesn't allow a look off to help earn some space. He takes the snap and looks to where he will be throwing. He could have used Vance as the target to look off with.


Vance's crossing route does very little to influence defenders away from the play. Boldin's Go route does very little to influence defenders away from the direction of the play. The pass is thrown and blue sees it. He's not fooled by Boldin's vertical route as an attempt to draw the defender. Orange isn't fooled by Vance's crosser.


JMart allows his block to slide off of him. Two unblocked defenders. Gore has no chance. 1 yard gain.




LOL screen pass...
Not digging the formation which this play is ran from. Too many players on the playside. Boldin and Vance can't block because they'll risk offensive PI, so they try to run off (clear out) their defenders. Why use JMart to throw the block? Why not Staley, your best OT? Just not feeling this play design one bit.

Im no expert, but if Staley doesn't get beat on a speed rush to the outside and Boone actually gets a piece of the man he is trying to chop, then maybe Kaep can stand firm in the pocket instead of falling backwards and maybe get off his first read on the screen and could find Vance Mac on the crossing route. I mean is this just a one read play for Kaep? He has single coverage up top and if Kaep would keep his eyes downfield for a second longer he would recognize the crossing route being open. To me it seems he looks at the rush and then looks at Gore splitting out for the screen. I guess its hard to use your peripherals when Boone lets a defender run right past him without even slowing him down.

I have a question that's off topic but feel like you guys can answer it pretty easily. When a player runs out of bounds it doesn't stop the clock but at other times it stops the clock. Always been confused with that. Thanks