KC Chiefs coaches film analysis

Originally posted by thl408:


Nice change up as the 49ers could have easily secured a new set of downs with a run, but instead go playaction for a chunk play.

The key. we have enough different things in this offense that we should remain unpredictable. Aggressive and unpredictable = monster offense.

NOW
let's get ellington deep or fake the jet sweep and send him on a wheel route, that would put him on a lb more than likely, i like those odds.

Do you see the 49ers going to a different scheme in the redzone as opposed to back at their own 20? Are they just predictable,undisciplined or is it just sloppy play that telegraphs their playcall? Moving the ball up and down the field is nice but all these field goals instead of TD's are going to cost them down the road at some point. Is their something you see that causes defenses to successfully shut them down when they get close? The Stevie Johnson TD was great but that and Lloyds catch and maybe one or two more are about it for wow plays in the passing game.

Originally posted by Sourball:
Do you see the 49ers going to a different scheme in the redzone as opposed to back at their own 20? Are they just predictable,undisciplined or is it just sloppy play that telegraphs their playcall? Moving the ball up and down the field is nice but all these field goals instead of TD's are going to cost them down the road at some point. Is their something you see that causes defenses to successfully shut them down when they get close? The Stevie Johnson TD was great but that and Lloyds catch and maybe one or two more are about it for wow plays in the passing game.

i feel its a combination of lack of execution on certain plays and roman going cute when he shouldn't do it. we have bread and butter players from about 7 yards in. i think from the 13 to the 20 yard line is the tough part of the red zone for us.

inside the 10 those bunch formations, 1 on 1's and draws usually work wonders

inside the 5 power running as well as play action to vernon works damn near automatic

it's just those tween yards where we have to get it together.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I can see where you have a problem with the design, but, I have seen several teams run this play out of the same formation we did and have success. With KC, Charles' movement only affects P Willis, not Wilhoite on the play side. With ours, CK's head movement moves the LB on the play side whereas AS holds the LB on the play side.

To say it's all around bad play design you'd have to call Mike McCarthy and Bevell up in Seattle as well. They both run this play out of the shotgun with the Receiver next to the QB as well. Cobb in GB and Harvin in Seattle. To me, the biggest factor is CK's eyes as you see the LB watching CK more than anything.

love your analysis. not trying to knock Kaep, its obvious he's still a work in progress. But its good to notice things like this so we can point to instances when you can see him progressing. Sometimes I notice something just doesnt look right, so its nice when you break it down. just like pressing the LOS to make the defender commit.

its been pointed out plenty of times that he's not as polished on the finer points of QBing. these are things he can improve upon tho.

another point about how his eyes can hold defenders and get guys open is evident on this same play. Crabs was open on the short out from the slot. Because he never looked over there...if Kaep had looked left then returned to crabs, or looks right then returned to Bruce, we'd be discussing a great play.

and again on the swing pass to gore. if he looks to gore, then over to Vance...Vance would have been crossing a stationary LB...he was wide open. or vice versa, gore would have had more room, with a convoy in front.

srsly, thx both of you for these threads. love em!

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Sourball:
Do you see the 49ers going to a different scheme in the redzone as opposed to back at their own 20? Are they just predictable,undisciplined or is it just sloppy play that telegraphs their playcall? Moving the ball up and down the field is nice but all these field goals instead of TD's are going to cost them down the road at some point. Is their something you see that causes defenses to successfully shut them down when they get close? The Stevie Johnson TD was great but that and Lloyds catch and maybe one or two more are about it for wow plays in the passing game.

i feel its a combination of lack of execution on certain plays and roman going cute when he shouldn't do it. we have bread and butter players from about 7 yards in. i think from the 13 to the 20 yard line is the tough part of the red zone for us.

inside the 10 those bunch formations, 1 on 1's and draws usually work wonders

inside the 5 power running as well as play action to vernon works damn near automatic

it's just those tween yards where we have to get it together.

I would agree that execution and play calling have their part for sure. One thing to keep in mind too is, with our power run game, the way we find the best success through the passing game are on a lot of our vertical stretch passing plays. We'll use the vertical routes to stretch and clear the defense because the defense is usually committing so many guys near the LOS. When in the red zone, the field is compressed, so you don't have the ability to vertically stretch the defense like you normally would. This means, our biggest advantage and the way we're best tooled to attack a defense is situationally mitigated. From there, when facing zone defenses, it's going to put a lot on CK's shoulders to read defenses and move defenders around horizontally with his eyes to manipulate the passing lanes. Right now, to combat this, we're trying to do a lot of things in the passing game to either get guys the ball with a blocker in front - think of all the Boldin passes over the middle with a TE right in front of him, or isolating a receiver in 1-1 situation(Johnson for the TD).

But, you are only going to win so many of those battles. Until he's more able to manipulate defenders, I don't see Roman trying to take too many risks in the red zone more. I think we'll continue what we've been doing because the risk/reward isn't there.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Sourball:
Do you see the 49ers going to a different scheme in the redzone as opposed to back at their own 20? Are they just predictable,undisciplined or is it just sloppy play that telegraphs their playcall? Moving the ball up and down the field is nice but all these field goals instead of TD's are going to cost them down the road at some point. Is their something you see that causes defenses to successfully shut them down when they get close? The Stevie Johnson TD was great but that and Lloyds catch and maybe one or two more are about it for wow plays in the passing game.

i feel its a combination of lack of execution on certain plays and roman going cute when he shouldn't do it. we have bread and butter players from about 7 yards in. i think from the 13 to the 20 yard line is the tough part of the red zone for us.

inside the 10 those bunch formations, 1 on 1's and draws usually work wonders

inside the 5 power running as well as play action to vernon works damn near automatic

it's just those tween yards where we have to get it together.

I would agree that execution and play calling have their part for sure. One thing to keep in mind too is, with our power run game, the way we find the best success through the passing game are on a lot of our vertical stretch passing plays. We'll use the vertical routes to stretch and clear the defense because the defense is usually committing so many guys near the LOS. When in the red zone, the field is compressed, so you don't have the ability to vertically stretch the defense like you normally would. This means, our biggest advantage and the way we're best tooled to attack a defense is situationally mitigated. From there, when facing zone defenses, it's going to put a lot on CK's shoulders to read defenses and move defenders around horizontally with his eyes to manipulate the passing lanes. Right now, to combat this, we're trying to do a lot of things in the passing game to either get guys the ball with a blocker in front - think of all the Boldin passes over the middle with a TE right in front of him, or isolating a receiver in 1-1 situation(Johnson for the TD).

But, you are only going to win so many of those battles. Until he's more able to manipulate defenders, I don't see Roman trying to take too many risks in the red zone more. I think we'll continue what we've been doing because the risk/reward isn't there.

I think he's ready to handle the load in the red zone I just think the only way to get better at them is to do them. I like that 3rd down play last game on our final drive because it was a winning play. We didn't execute it correctly BUT it was there and it was almost a done deal. Next time we probably complete that pass. I think the coaches have to coach to win, we'll never know what Kap can and can't do consistently unless we ask him to do things consistently.

Originally posted by Sinsation:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I can see where you have a problem with the design, but, I have seen several teams run this play out of the same formation we did and have success. With KC, Charles' movement only affects P Willis, not Wilhoite on the play side. With ours, CK's head movement moves the LB on the play side whereas AS holds the LB on the play side.

To say it's all around bad play design you'd have to call Mike McCarthy and Bevell up in Seattle as well. They both run this play out of the shotgun with the Receiver next to the QB as well. Cobb in GB and Harvin in Seattle. To me, the biggest factor is CK's eyes as you see the LB watching CK more than anything.

love your analysis. not trying to knock Kaep, its obvious he's still a work in progress. But its good to notice things like this so we can point to instances when you can see him progressing. Sometimes I notice something just doesnt look right, so its nice when you break it down. just like pressing the LOS to make the defender commit.

its been pointed out plenty of times that he's not as polished on the finer points of QBing. these are things he can improve upon tho.

another point about how his eyes can hold defenders and get guys open is evident on this same play. Crabs was open on the short out from the slot. Because he never looked over there...if Kaep had looked left then returned to crabs, or looks right then returned to Bruce, we'd be discussing a great play.

and again on the swing pass to gore. if he looks to gore, then over to Vance...Vance would have been crossing a stationary LB...he was wide open. or vice versa, gore would have had more room, with a convoy in front.

srsly, thx both of you for these threads. love em!

For sure, I'm not saying the guy can't do this or that he sucks because he didn't. My point was, that it's all those "little things" to being a QB that makes a huge difference when you're playing high caliber teams. It's the difference between an NFCCG and a super bowl berth. It's what separates the good from the great and all the attention to detail is what's going to make him a dynamic, truly terrifying player.

He's got all the tools in the world and he's really, really close. It's just putting it all together and doing it consistently. When you look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers, it's his consistently high level of play that makes him so great. Guys like Stafford can put up Rodgers like numbers for a stretch, but, aren't guys I'd rely on to consistently play at a high level. Rodgers is great game in and game out. He does all the little things well. Now, he's done a lot of those little things well ever since he became a starter - his 4th year in the league.

For me, the issue is, we're in a championship window, so the grace period for a guy like CK is going to be shorter - much like it was for Steve Young. Steve Young won the MVP award and a lot of fans still wanted him benched - why? Because he wasn't Joe and didn't win the SB on a team that had all the tools in place to win one.

here's an example of how Bethea has really made an impact

Ignore the zones on the first slide - after checking it again, I realized we were playing man-coverage, not zone. It's a Pattern match man-coverage.


KC comes out in a bunch formation. We're going to try and overload blitz that side of the formation. KC gets a win on this play, they have an athlete in space, but Bethea makes a great open field tackle. Bear in mind, this is 3rd and 5:


You can see Bethea signal to Culliver who he's taking in coverage.

From there, he reads the route and drives on the ball.

KC won by the design of this play, they have the TE in the field with a lot of space. If Bethea doesn't make this tackle, it's a huge gain.

He stops the TE for no gain. If I could make a GIF of this play I would. It's 13;03 to go in the 2nd Qtr. But, great defensive play to force a FG.

here's an example of how Bethea has really made an impact

Ignore the zones on the first slide - after checking it again, I realized we were playing man-coverage, not zone. It's a Pattern match man-coverage.


KC comes out in a bunch formation. We're going to try and overload blitz that side of the formation. KC gets a win on this play, they have an athlete in space, but Bethea makes a great open field tackle. Bear in mind, this is 3rd and 5:


You can see Bethea signal to Culliver who he's taking in coverage.

From there, he reads the route and drives on the ball.

KC won by the design of this play, they have the TE in the field with a lot of space. If Bethea doesn't make this tackle, it's a huge gain.

He stops the TE for no gain. If I could make a GIF of this play I would. It's 13;03 to go in the 2nd Qtr. But, great defensive play to force a FG.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'll try and answer these the best I can:

1. I do see Lynch developing. He's getting better at knowing when to use his speed rush and shows a little more nastiness to his rush than Lemonier did. If you notice, you're seeing less Lemonier and more Lynch on the field. I think that's because Lynch is showing an ability to use more than one trick. I don't see him supplanting Skuta because Skuta is so sound against the run. If anything, I see Brooks being gone and a SkutaLynch replacement of Brooks.
2. A. Brooks continues to play well against the run, continues to not be a huge factor in the pass rush. He's doing better, but, still, not up to the kind of cap figure he's going to be - which is a huge factor. He's going to be a 9 mil cap figure for the next several years - which is up there with Ryan Kerrigan of the Redskins, who leads the league in sacks, and almost as much as Brian Arakpo at 10 mil. Aldon Smith will be a 9 mil figure next year. So, to me, he's not meeting his pay grade.
3. Dial is playing well, he's continuing to get better and play good assignment football. I don't see him replacing anyone on our D-line as a starter anytime soon though. Not because he's not a good player, but, because our D-line(Smith, Williams, McDonald) are all playing at a very, very high level. So, it'd really surprise me if he's supplanting any of those guys for any reason football related. That being said, I think we'll continue to see him involved in the rotation to keep guys fresh.
4. Not sure why Williams is playing better, he just is.
5. Kilgore has gotten better with more time and experience in the season atmosphere. He started out fairly shaky the first couple games. I think he's settling in. Dontarie Poe - who he was lined up against, is one of the better NT's in the league, and he handled his assignments against him pretty well.
6. I think Lloyd might be our best shot at a deep threat this year, simply because he does a lot of things well in his route running and his ability to go get the ball. He's a very savvy route runner to help get himself behind coverage - a lot like Isaac Bruce when Bruce was with us. Not the blazing speed, but craftiness to get open downfield. Plus, he's a guy you can trust to go get the ball. A lot of people want Ellington as our deep threat, but remember, Ellington is a rookie and he wasn't polished at all coming out of College. In the pre-season, his route running didn't look that sharp or developed. So, for me, for Ellington to be our "deep threat' he's got to develop more as a receiver in the entire route tree.
7. See part of the answer to #6. Also, You have 3 1000 yard receivers who also should be on the field and a guy in Lloyd who can make the catches he did. How are you gonna get all those guys involved and still maintain a power run game?? You can't..... More Ellington means less Gore/Hyde/Boldin/Crabs - plain and simple.
8. I think Carrier is showing that he is a quality player and has a better knack for blocking assignments and route running. I'll be surprised if McDonald stays infront of Carrier on the depth chart for long.
9. not sure what you mean by SD?? Are you talking about San Diego??

ON number 9, my mistake, should have been 49ers, must have had a brain freeze in mid-sentence.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Sourball:
Do you see the 49ers going to a different scheme in the redzone as opposed to back at their own 20? Are they just predictable,undisciplined or is it just sloppy play that telegraphs their playcall? Moving the ball up and down the field is nice but all these field goals instead of TD's are going to cost them down the road at some point. Is their something you see that causes defenses to successfully shut them down when they get close? The Stevie Johnson TD was great but that and Lloyds catch and maybe one or two more are about it for wow plays in the passing game.

i feel its a combination of lack of execution on certain plays and roman going cute when he shouldn't do it. we have bread and butter players from about 7 yards in. i think from the 13 to the 20 yard line is the tough part of the red zone for us.

inside the 10 those bunch formations, 1 on 1's and draws usually work wonders

inside the 5 power running as well as play action to vernon works damn near automatic

it's just those tween yards where we have to get it together.

I would agree that execution and play calling have their part for sure. One thing to keep in mind too is, with our power run game, the way we find the best success through the passing game are on a lot of our vertical stretch passing plays. We'll use the vertical routes to stretch and clear the defense because the defense is usually committing so many guys near the LOS. When in the red zone, the field is compressed, so you don't have the ability to vertically stretch the defense like you normally would. This means, our biggest advantage and the way we're best tooled to attack a defense is situationally mitigated. From there, when facing zone defenses, it's going to put a lot on CK's shoulders to read defenses and move defenders around horizontally with his eyes to manipulate the passing lanes. Right now, to combat this, we're trying to do a lot of things in the passing game to either get guys the ball with a blocker in front - think of all the Boldin passes over the middle with a TE right in front of him, or isolating a receiver in 1-1 situation(Johnson for the TD).

But, you are only going to win so many of those battles. Until he's more able to manipulate defenders, I don't see Roman trying to take too many risks in the red zone more. I think we'll continue what we've been doing because the risk/reward isn't there.

I think he's ready to handle the load in the red zone I just think the only way to get better at them is to do them. I like that 3rd down play last game on our final drive because it was a winning play. We didn't execute it correctly BUT it was there and it was almost a done deal. Next time we probably complete that pass. I think the coaches have to coach to win, we'll never know what Kap can and can't do consistently unless we ask him to do things consistently.

My response to that the is: we as fans better be patient with him and the coaches when he goes through growing pains to get better at that. Because, make no mistake, if they tried to do that a lot, his INT's per game will go up.

Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

Brandon Lloyd had his most productive day to date in his return stint wearing Red and Gold. Although not known for blazing speed, he was used as a vertical weapon in this game.

B.Lloyd Targets
#1
1Q 3rd & 4

49ers run a triangle stretch to Kap's right. Lloyd runs a short In route on the backside.
KC: Some form of pattern match


The orange LB will take away Crabs' Curl. Purple has his eyes on Kap and would quickly come up to tackle Boldin if targted. Vance is bracketed on his Post route.


Kap red lights all routes on his right. He feels the pressure from his right and shuffles left. He spots Lloyd sitting down in a quiet area due to a blown coverage as Lloyd's CB releases Lloyd from coverage, but no one is in the middle of the field to pick up Lloyd.




Kap cycles through multiple reads. Most importantly, shuffles to his left while maintaining his eyes downfield. Lloyd with a gain of +9 and a 3rd down conversion.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Regarding the RZ, what about a design like what KC ran for an easy TD...triangle bunch formation on the left (basically, an AR2) and Alex just quickly throws to the back TE while the two in front block out just enough to get into the EZ?

We do do that(haha doodoo...) But, like you've mentioned before, if we did it a lot, it'd be predictable. We do it about every other game or so.

Originally posted by thl408:
Brandon Lloyd had his most productive day to date in his return stint wearing Red and Gold. Although not known for blazing speed, he was used as a vertical weapon in this game.

B.Lloyd Targets
#1
1Q 3rd & 4

49ers run a triangle stretch to Kap's right. Lloyd runs a short In route on the backside.
KC: Some form of pattern match


The orange LB will take away Crabs' Curl. Purple has his eyes on Kap and would quickly come up to tackle Boldin if targted. Vance is bracketed on his Post route.


Kap red lights all routes on his right. He feels the pressure from his right and shuffles left. He spots Lloyd sitting down in a quiet area due to a blown coverage as Lloyd's CB releases Lloyd from coverage, but no one is in the middle of the field to pick up Lloyd.




Kap cycles through multiple reads. Most importantly, shuffles to his left while maintaining his eyes downfield. Lloyd with a gain of +9 and a 3rd down conversion.

I was really hoping you'd touch on this play - meant to message you about that. I really liked seeing Ck go through his progressions(this was one play I had in mind when I wrote the OP). He's got the ability, just has to do it consistently.