Philadelphia Eagles coaches game analysis

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the WCO so unstoppable once you have good athletes (note: I know we don't run the WCO the way Walsh did it) When teams start teeing off on the QB and also zoning the offense, Walsh comes in with the Green Bay sweep, which kills a lot of stunts, dogs, and blitzes to the inside. Now, while I understand our personnel is built for the inside run game, I think a worthwile goal is to also develop the outside run game - despite our personnel's strength being inside. Just like Lemon-Yay, if all you have are speed moves and no power moves, how are you going to be a consistent pass rusher if you don't have counters?

In G-ro's case. I'd like to see our O Linemen run some sweeps. I know this won't be a staple of the offense the way our off tackle runs are a staple of this offense, but I think it can be a great counter to the inside blitzes that defenses are dialing up against the Guard Center gap because of a new player in Goodwin and a holdout player in Boone. Even better, maybe employ the counter trey. I know the HOgs under Joe Gibbs weren't a sweep team, but that Counter Trey with Riggens (Carlos Hyde) might just do the trick against those inside run blitzes. Staley is pretty fast for a left tackle that he can probably run the counter trey effectively. I'm just sick and tired of the defense shooting the Guard/Center gap and stalling our offense.

We could probably run our counter with the current scheme, but have the pulling guard execute a log blog instead of his kickout. That should tell the ISO lead and RB to go outside of him, and everything inside to backside should still be blocked up. As lonn as Miller hits on his iso block and the WR doesn't get tossed around by a CB, we have a good play that is already familiar to 8 of the 11 offensive players.

I hope I have this correct. If the DE pinches in, what you are saying is have the pulling guard execute a block to knock the DE's feet away from him? DE, if he sees that, can just jump over the block though? That will gumm up that run play right there? The Green Bay sweep, on the other hand, the DE is being crack back blocked by the TE, and both guards are vacating the inside to go outside. So if the defense blitzes inside they will be very hard pressed to go outside just by position after they have passed the LOS and it's going to be a big gain for Frank or Carlos. I think the sweep, even if it gains just a couple of yards, should slow down and or stop a defense from blitzing the Guard Center gap that this offense seems to have trouble diagnosing and stopping.

I like your idea of counter runs to the other side (left side) also. That will really screw up a defense dead set in stopping an off tackle play to the right.

I apologize for being vague. LOG doesn't mean a log roll, though it would make complete sense to think that. Usually, if the EMOL pinches on a counter play, that gives the pulling guard a "LOG" read (I don't know what that stands for). That means that he will probably not open a significant running lane with a kickout block, so he alters his course slightly to target the outside shoulder, converting the off-tackle counter to an outside run. The ISO blocker (usually Miller) and RB read the Pulling G's block and either go inside the Kick out or outside the LOG. We run a LOT of counter, and every counter is potentially a sweep play, we just get the kick out >90% of the time. Intentionally log blocking it could give us a sweep play.

We had a RB who LOVED bouncing runs outside, so we were told to LOG block whatever we could (doesn't work when the EMOL gets too far upfield).

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
I really like when the 49ers run any variation of the triangle stretch. I think it allows Kap to get a good look at all three targets in a small area of the field. No clue why the 49ers don't do this more often as it nearly always results in a solid gain to the curl or the flat route since teams always make it a point to cover VD on the corner route.

The other concept I see them have a lot of success with, especially this season, is any variation of All Curls. In the DAL and ARI game, he was hitting these with precision. Just run two curl routes at a specific zone defender and Kap's rocket arm can get the ball there before any defender can react. Very easy 7 yard gain to a target over the middle, in between the numbers on the field.

I had mention this above. I really wish we would "wear out" certain concepts. Even if it was running each of the concepts you mentioned above 2-3 more times a game. We do vary our formations quite a bit so I think we could have great success running something like "spot" 4-5 times a game out of 4 or so different formations. In my mind this is one of the staple tenets of a WCO.

They do use all-Curls often. They've ran Spot along with variations of it before, but not lately, and never enough imo.

Anquan was open, and I think that was a decent route he ran, just an overthrow. I'm wondering if all these non-throws and overthrows are a result of a lack of confidence in his O Line? Like on the other GIF you posted, he did have a great pocket to climb through, but didn't. I'm thinking he's unsure about the middle of the line and he's getting too much pressure up the middle to be comfortable stepping up into the pocket and decides to scramble left or right because of that up the gut pressure the O Line kept letting through - throughout the whole game.

If it's a 3-step drop you don't climb the pocket. The point of the drop is to get the ball out quick. (Referring to this specific breakdown) As for when he scrambles, it could be that about the O-line, OR, he's just that uncomfortable with the pocket due to the fact he has legs to run with. And it collapsing around him.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
I really like when the 49ers run any variation of the triangle stretch. I think it allows Kap to get a good look at all three targets in a small area of the field. No clue why the 49ers don't do this more often as it nearly always results in a solid gain to the curl or the flat route since teams always make it a point to cover VD on the corner route.

The other concept I see them have a lot of success with, especially this season, is any variation of All Curls. In the DAL and ARI game, he was hitting these with precision. Just run two curl routes at a specific zone defender and Kap's rocket arm can get the ball there before any defender can react. Very easy 7 yard gain to a target over the middle, in between the numbers on the field.

I had mention this above. I really wish we would "wear out" certain concepts. Even if it was running each of the concepts you mentioned above 2-3 more times a game. We do vary our formations quite a bit so I think we could have great success running something like "spot" 4-5 times a game out of 4 or so different formations. In my mind this is one of the staple tenets of a WCO.

They do use all-Curls often. They've ran Spot along with variations of it before, but not lately, and never enough imo.

Anquan was open, and I think that was a decent route he ran, just an overthrow. I'm wondering if all these non-throws and overthrows are a result of a lack of confidence in his O Line? Like on the other GIF you posted, he did have a great pocket to climb through, but didn't. I'm thinking he's unsure about the middle of the line and he's getting too much pressure up the middle to be comfortable stepping up into the pocket and decides to scramble left or right because of that up the gut pressure the O Line kept letting through - throughout the whole game.

If it's a 3-step drop you don't climb the pocket. The point of the drop is to get the ball out quick. (Referring to this specific breakdown) As for when he scrambles, it could be that about the O-line, OR, he's just that uncomfortable with the pocket due to the fact he has legs to run with. And it collapsing around him.

I thought he should of hit Crabs, #27 was back pedaling and throwing it over him and underneath the top safety was a harder throw. Crabs was wide open and probably shakes for the first.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
I really like when the 49ers run any variation of the triangle stretch. I think it allows Kap to get a good look at all three targets in a small area of the field. No clue why the 49ers don't do this more often as it nearly always results in a solid gain to the curl or the flat route since teams always make it a point to cover VD on the corner route.

The other concept I see them have a lot of success with, especially this season, is any variation of All Curls. In the DAL and ARI game, he was hitting these with precision. Just run two curl routes at a specific zone defender and Kap's rocket arm can get the ball there before any defender can react. Very easy 7 yard gain to a target over the middle, in between the numbers on the field.

I had mention this above. I really wish we would "wear out" certain concepts. Even if it was running each of the concepts you mentioned above 2-3 more times a game. We do vary our formations quite a bit so I think we could have great success running something like "spot" 4-5 times a game out of 4 or so different formations. In my mind this is one of the staple tenets of a WCO.

They do use all-Curls often. They've ran Spot along with variations of it before, but not lately, and never enough imo.

Anquan was open, and I think that was a decent route he ran, just an overthrow. I'm wondering if all these non-throws and overthrows are a result of a lack of confidence in his O Line? Like on the other GIF you posted, he did have a great pocket to climb through, but didn't. I'm thinking he's unsure about the middle of the line and he's getting too much pressure up the middle to be comfortable stepping up into the pocket and decides to scramble left or right because of that up the gut pressure the O Line kept letting through - throughout the whole game.

If it's a 3-step drop you don't climb the pocket. The point of the drop is to get the ball out quick. (Referring to this specific breakdown) As for when he scrambles, it could be that about the O-line, OR, he's just that uncomfortable with the pocket due to the fact he has legs to run with. And it collapsing around him.

I thought he should of hit Crabs, #27 was back pedaling and throwing it over him and underneath the top safety was a harder throw. Crabs was wide open and probably shakes for the first.

Well I don't think he is "wide" open. Definitely open, but the linebackers are like right on the 1st down yellow line or just a little passed it. Crabs was definitely an option though no question

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
I really like when the 49ers run any variation of the triangle stretch. I think it allows Kap to get a good look at all three targets in a small area of the field. No clue why the 49ers don't do this more often as it nearly always results in a solid gain to the curl or the flat route since teams always make it a point to cover VD on the corner route.

The other concept I see them have a lot of success with, especially this season, is any variation of All Curls. In the DAL and ARI game, he was hitting these with precision. Just run two curl routes at a specific zone defender and Kap's rocket arm can get the ball there before any defender can react. Very easy 7 yard gain to a target over the middle, in between the numbers on the field.

I had mention this above. I really wish we would "wear out" certain concepts. Even if it was running each of the concepts you mentioned above 2-3 more times a game. We do vary our formations quite a bit so I think we could have great success running something like "spot" 4-5 times a game out of 4 or so different formations. In my mind this is one of the staple tenets of a WCO.

They do use all-Curls often. They've ran Spot along with variations of it before, but not lately, and never enough imo.

Anquan was open, and I think that was a decent route he ran, just an overthrow. I'm wondering if all these non-throws and overthrows are a result of a lack of confidence in his O Line? Like on the other GIF you posted, he did have a great pocket to climb through, but didn't. I'm thinking he's unsure about the middle of the line and he's getting too much pressure up the middle to be comfortable stepping up into the pocket and decides to scramble left or right because of that up the gut pressure the O Line kept letting through - throughout the whole game.

If it's a 3-step drop you don't climb the pocket. The point of the drop is to get the ball out quick. (Referring to this specific breakdown) As for when he scrambles, it could be that about the O-line, OR, he's just that uncomfortable with the pocket due to the fact he has legs to run with. And it collapsing around him.

I thought he should of hit Crabs, #27 was back pedaling and throwing it over him and underneath the top safety was a harder throw. Crabs was wide open and probably shakes for the first.

Well I don't think he is "wide" open. Definitely open, but the linebackers are like right on the 1st down yellow line or just a little passed it. Crabs was definitely an option though no question

True. Wrong choice of words. He was open.

He was open for the catch and would have to make one guy miss to get the first.

Originally posted by thl408:
Throw the Ball! #7

Kap drops back and looks to his right. Then rolls right. Thrown away out of bounds.


49ers: All curls (zone buster) to the left and over the middle. Boldin on a Go route. Most likely a back shoulder throw because when was the last time Boldin was targeted for a Go route?
PHI: Some hybrid coverage. They man up on Boldin and zone everywhere else on the field.


The three Curls break on their route. The underneath zone defenders are stretched horizontally with Miller being the optimal target, but we know Kap never looked left, he was looking to Boldin.


Kap rolls right and creates the pressure for himself.

1 read quarterback......

Originally posted by thl408:
A gutsy playcall here gets the 49ers a big 3rd down conversion. This is on the drive that results in the last FG to push the lead from 2 to 5.

3rd & 13
PHI looks to blitz up the middle.


They put a LB and a safety right over the A gaps. The best place to attack is the edge of the formation. 49ers call a QB Sweep.


Kap gets the ball and immediately runs to his left. Boldin targets his crack back block as Iupati pulls and Hyde leads.


Iupati is unable to get to the edge because the LB gets penetration and pushes Iupati, disrupting his path to the edge. Boldin just completed his block.


Gain of 16.

Same play Alex scored on vs. the Saints. Gutsy play call, but a great one.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

A gutsy playcall here gets the 49ers a big 3rd down conversion. This is on the drive that results in the last FG to push the lead from 2 to 5.

3rd & 13
PHI looks to blitz up the middle.


They put a LB and a safety right over the A gaps. The best place to attack is the edge of the formation. 49ers call a QB Sweep.


Kap gets the ball and immediately runs to his left. Boldin targets his crack back block as Iupati pulls and Hyde leads.


Iupati is unable to get to the edge because the LB gets penetration and pushes Iupati, disrupting his path to the edge. Boldin just completed his block.


Gain of 16.

Same play Alex scored on vs. the Saints. Gutsy play call, but a great one.

To my recollection, everytime we've called this sweep it always goes to the left. I would kinda like to see us maybe run it to the right and offif that have some sort of throwback to the backside. Might be an opportunity to catch the defense off guard and kinda get a pseudo-screen type pass.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:


Kap rolls right and creates the pressure for himself.

1 read quarterback......

This is why I gave up on Alex Smith. It was like this all the time.

Kap has definitely fallen off a cliff. He is completely nervy, and doesn't trust his O-line whatsoever.

The nerves are showing in his passes which are off for the first time I have ever seen him play, and creating his own pressure, which I have not seen either prior to this season. He is a completely different player. Oddly enough, the stats show him with the same QB rating and roughly the same TD INT ratio as last year. But his QBR is way down.

This proves more than anything else, how much more valid the QBR system is, compared with traditional QB rating.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

These are seriously some of the best threads I've seen on the zone. Thanks

Easily.

Agree

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
These are seriously some of the best threads I've seen on the zone. Thanks

Easily.

Agree

what about the photoshop thread

It was briefly discussed in Marvins postgame thread about how the 49ers like to wait till the last second on the playclock before snapping the ball, with one of the reasons being that the 49ers want the opposing defense to declare their alignment in an effort to get a better pre-snap read of the coverage. Snapping the ball with near :01 second left can force the defense to put their safeties in whatever coverage they are about to play.

The strategy of waiting till :00 to snap the ball is not as effective near the end zone. Safeties don't have to play as deep so it's easier to disguise coverage. Here, PHI baits the 49ers into a play that PHI will easily defeat with coverage. Since the safeties don't have a far distance to run, they can stay in a presnap look (disguise) much later into the playclock.

However, here is where Kap shows his dynamic abilities to make something out of nothing.

3Q 3rd & 10
This is the look PHI gives when Kap approaches the LoS. Kap sees the WRs singled up on the outside with no safety help.



Kap gets to the line with about 15-16 seconds left on the playclock. This GIF starts when he yells his loud "HUT!". This happens at :08 on playclock (top left). PHI stays in their Cover0 look (pic above). Kap then puts Gore to the right side because that's where Kap thinks the blitz is coming from since there are more defenders on that side of the formation. Watch the defenders back up as the playclock approaches :00.


The ball was just snapped. This is the now the look of the defense. Quite different.
49ers: back shoulder fades to SJ and Crabs. These are routes to defeat single man coverage on the outside with no safety help.
PHI: cover3 shell with 5 underneath defenders.


Kap sees this looking to his left. 3 pass rushers, 8 in coverage. The blue defender defeats SJ's back shoulder fade.


Nothing doing on the right side with Boldin's Out and Crab's back shoulder fade covered.


Kap looks left, then right, then rolls left.

Originally posted by thl408:

It was briefly discussed in Marvins postgame thread about how the 49ers like to wait till the last second on the playclock before snapping the ball, with one of the reasons being that the 49ers want the opposing defense to declare their alignment in an effort to get a better pre-snap read of the coverage. Snapping the ball with near :01 second left can force the defense to put their safeties in whatever coverage they are about to play.

The strategy of waiting till :00 to snap the ball is not as effective near the end zone. Safeties don't have to play as deep so it's easier to disguise coverage. Here, PHI baits the 49ers into a play that PHI will easily defeat with coverage. Since the safeties don't have a far distance to run, they can stay in a presnap look (disguise) much later into the playclock.

However, here is where Kap shows his dynamic abilities to make something out of nothing.

3Q 3rd & 10
This is the look PHI gives when Kap approaches the LoS. Kap sees the WRs singled up on the outside with no safety help.



Kap gets to the line with about 15-16 seconds left on the playclock. This GIF starts when he yells his loud "HUT!". This happens at :08 on playclock (top left). PHI stays in their Cover0 look (pic above). Kap then puts Gore to the right side because that's where Kap thinks the blitz is coming from since there are more defenders on that side of the formation. Watch the defenders back up as the playclock approaches :00.


The ball was just snapped. This is the now the look of the defense. Quite different.
49ers: back shoulder fades to SJ and Crabs. These are routes to defeat single man coverage on the outside with no safety help.
PHI: cover3 shell with 5 underneath defenders.


Kap sees this looking to his left. 3 pass rushers, 8 in coverage. The blue defender defeats SJ's back shoulder fade.


Nothing doing on the right side with Boldin's Out and Crab's back shoulder fade covered.


Kap looks left, then right, then rolls left.

Greg Cossell was on cowherd talking about this play. He said it was his favorite play of the week. He stated Philly won the battle of schemes by changing at the last minute and kap already adjusted to what the defense presented earlier. He said that kap's skill is the ultimate eraser and despite losing the schematic battle on this play, his skill and arm won the down.

Originally posted by hroberts:
First, CK can't throw this away because Gore is blocking five yards downfield when CK gets to the sideline. If he throws it away, he gets an OPI and knocks us out of easy field goal range.

Watching this in the context of the other "why didn't he throw the ball" plays, it seems clear that this and the other plays were designed runs for CK. Thus the all go routes and the fact that Gore is running to his man instead of to open space. The idea is to clear out that space for a CK run. CK would have likely gotten the first down if he had had a clean running lane out of the pocket. Unfortunately, Kilgore's guy beats him with an inside move, which makes CK have to do the spin back to the outside move and have to go back around the right end. If you look at the field right when he plants his foot, there's just one un-covered defender anywhere close, and that guy's on the 9 yard line. If there had been a direct lane up through the rushers, he would have had a better than even chance at a first down.

I was wondering about this because then it would make sense why Kap didn't throw it away if Gore started blocking downfield (albeit it looks like he took a fraction of a second to peek back).

Goal Line Stand

1st & 10
49ers: some form of Quarters to Foles' right as they rush 3 and drop 8 into coverage. They are definitely doing some pattern matching.


Foles looks to the Corner route by the TE. Cox is over the top and watching the QB. Foles red lights it.


Can't tell if Foles is looking to the RB circle route or the Post from the slot WR. The circle route might be open, but Wilhoite can attack downhill on it if targeted.


By rushing just 3, Justin and RayMac are doubled. It's up to Ian Williams to bust through, and he does.


Some effective passing off of coverage. Skuta doesn't cover the WR he's lined up across from. Willis covers the Post, then shifts focus to the RB circle route as Bethea takes over for the Post route. Brooks covers the RB then passes him over to WIllis. Foles throws it away through the back of the end zone.