SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS. CHICAGO BEARS GAMEDAY THREAD (Week 2)

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Wait, Gore had a 50 yard TD negated??!

Yup. Kap threw a pick a few plays later.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by villain71:

We will bounce back and destroy AZ.

And they plan to cover floyd and fitz how?

They'll be covered.

Trust that the coaching staff and team always bounces back after a bad loss.

And while the score wasn't bad, allowing 21 unanswered and losing makes it a bad loss, worse than what Seattle suffered today.

The niners lost back to back games twice last year so no there is no faith in a coaching staff that just threw away a perfectly good chance at being a game ahead of the Seahawks

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
I just don't understand how the 2012 Kaepernick could have been so damn good and the present day one could have so many issues?

Were teams really playing us that differently back then? Or was a backup taking over the starter position one that negated real world pressure?

That Chicago defense was better than the current one by a good amount. Remember, it was a battle of who the better defense was going into that game....

O-line was playing at a much higher level in 2012, and we had better team speed with Moss and Walker.

The NFL wasn't prepared for the read-option in 2012. Kap had played the read-option in college and wasn't an NFL caliber pocket QB. Now he has to become one. This process/transformation will be frustrating especially if he, the fans and coaching staff dont admit this transition needs to take place. Kap needs to be doing non stop constant work on becoming a better pocket passer. That's it. At the end of the day that's what needs to happen.

Jonathan "i was bullied" Martin gave up two sacks on the Niners last drive.

Originally posted by Phil:

The NFL wasn't prepared for the read-option in 2012. Kap had played the read-option in college and wasn't an NFL caliber pocket QB. Now he has to become one. This process/transformation will be frustrating especially if he, the fans and coaching staff dont admit this transition needs to take place. Kap needs to be doing non stop constant work on becoming a better pocket passer. That's it. At the end of the day that's what needs to happen.

Bingo.

Originally posted by Phil:
The NFL wasn't prepared for the read-option in 2012. Kap had played the read-option in college and wasn't an NFL caliber pocket QB. Now he has to become one. This process/transformation will be frustrating especially if he, the fans and coaching staff dont admit this transition needs to take place. Kap needs to be doing non stop constant work on becoming a better pocket passer. That's it. At the end of the day that's what needs to happen.

He doesn't need the read-option to be successful. Our scheme is power-run, play-action and he executes it well.

You're right, grooming him into a complete pocket passer will take time, and there's no guarantee he'll even get to that point. In the meantime he needs to operate within the confines of the offense and not force things. That's when the turnovers pile up for him.

Generally speaking he's been very good at protecting the ball, but when the turnovers happen, they come in waves. He can't lose his cool like he did tonight. Inexcusable.

it is killing us with bowman and.aldon out...... it really sucks..... the whole team has to get it going or we arent gonna do anything this season... when davis went out it made us one dimensional... i really dont understand, line up 4-5 wrs every down, and let it roll... oline has to protect kaep better.. kaep has to make the right decisions too, smfh....

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:
The NFL wasn't prepared for the read-option in 2012. Kap had played the read-option in college and wasn't an NFL caliber pocket QB. Now he has to become one. This process/transformation will be frustrating especially if he, the fans and coaching staff dont admit this transition needs to take place. Kap needs to be doing non stop constant work on becoming a better pocket passer. That's it. At the end of the day that's what needs to happen.

He doesn't need the read-option to be successful. Our scheme is power-run, play-action and he executes it well.

You're right, grooming him into a complete pocket passer will take time, and there's no guarantee he'll even get to that point. In the meantime he needs to operate within the confines of the offense and not force things. That's when the turnovers pile up for him.

Generally speaking he's been very good at protecting the ball, but when the turnovers happen, they come in waves. He can't lose his cool like he did tonight. Inexcusable.

Well, here's the thing, our defense is weakened with our 2 best players (probably the two best at their positions in the NFL) missing. We wont have a pass rush till Bowman/Aldon get back and our secondary needs time to fuse as a unit. This means our offense needs to score more points. Our running game is solid, we score more by improving the passing game. We can't improve the passing game until Kap progresses as a pocket passer. We needed/need him to do so early this season while Bowman/Smith are out. Dallas was basically a gimme with their weak defense. Tonight's game was very troubling seeing Chicago had so many defensive injuries. We absolutely can't run the same offense we did in 2012 or 2013 and win this season. We NEED Kap to improve the passing game. We cant rely on scoring a couple TD's and FG's then having our D shut people down while we run out the clock. Not without a pass rush and not while our secondary is in the gelling process.

Kap needed to step up early in the season and thus far, after tonight, I'm not feeling good about it. Next week he'll face a very good secondary and an explosive offense. We should be able to run against Arizona but if they dont respect the passing game they'll stack the box on just about every play and dare us to throw. The O-line doesn't seem to be blocking as well as they did in 2011/12/13 either. Frank doesn't seem to be able to get as many gains hitting a stacked box as he did in the past. It's absolutely crucial that Kap doesnt have games like this early in teh season whilst Bowman/Smith are out. Like you said, it's inexcusable and our playoff hopes will slip away as our schedule isn't getting any easier.

I expected Ward to struggle, he's a rookie safety playing/learning the slot in the NFL. I expected our pas rush to suffer, our run D to suffer, our secondary to struggle a bit as a result of the lack of a pass rush and as they fuse as a unit. This is why Kaps offseason was so important. This is why our passing game HAS to improve now. Next week. The week after and after that. Playing like this we could easily lose 5 games before we hit Seattle. If that happens our season is over, forget about the playoffs. We need to go into the second half of the season with max 2 losses. The Arizona, Phili and Denver game are looking scary now. And the Rams D is good. And Alex knows how to beat us. KC will be well prepared for our game.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:
The NFL wasn't prepared for the read-option in 2012. Kap had played the read-option in college and wasn't an NFL caliber pocket QB. Now he has to become one. This process/transformation will be frustrating especially if he, the fans and coaching staff dont admit this transition needs to take place. Kap needs to be doing non stop constant work on becoming a better pocket passer. That's it. At the end of the day that's what needs to happen.

He doesn't need the read-option to be successful. Our scheme is power-run, play-action and he executes it well.

You're right, grooming him into a complete pocket passer will take time, and there's no guarantee he'll even get to that point. In the meantime he needs to operate within the confines of the offense and not force things. That's when the turnovers pile up for him.

Generally speaking he's been very good at protecting the ball, but when the turnovers happen, they come in waves. He can't lose his cool like he did tonight. Inexcusable.

This is an interesting discussion and I have a slightly different way of looking at it.

Every QB is different and has his own strengths and weaknesses. Agree ? If our ultimate goal in drafting Kap is for him to become an elite pocket passer, then I would argue perhaps Kap shouldn't have been our pick in the first place. Let me give you an example to illustrate my point, take Jimmy Garappolo from this year's draft, arguably he could become a fantastic pocket passer, but at the same time is highly unlikely he can become a dynamic mobile QB who can run the read option. I am not saying Kap definitely cannot become an elite pocket passer per se, but at least innately he is not one. So, the question is why pick a guy who is not naturally strong in this particular area when deep down that is what we want out of him ?

Obviously, only time could tell. But, I would argue common sense tells us it would and should be easier to develop a QB who is already potentially strong in the area of pocket passing as opposed to trying to groom a guy who has instead a mobile improvisational game. In all likelihood, with more coaching Kap will probably be able to become more proficient as a pocket passer, but whether he will be an elite pocket passer or not that is another question.

Originally posted by Rascal:
This is an interesting discussion and I have a slightly different way of looking at it.

Every QB is different and has his own strengths and weaknesses. Agree ? If our ultimate goal in drafting Kap is for him to become an elite pocket passer, then I would argue perhaps Kap shouldn't have been our pick in the first place. Let me give you an example to illustrate my point, take Jimmy Garappolo from this year's draft, arguably he could become a fantastic pocket passer, but at the same time is highly unlikely he can become a dynamic mobile QB who can run the read option. I am not saying Kap definitely cannot become an elite pocket passer per se, but at least innately he is not one. So, the question is why pick a guy who is not naturally strong in this particular area when deep down that is what we want out of him ?

Obviously, only time could tell. But, I would argue common sense tells us it would and should be easier to develop a QB who is already potentially strong in the area of pocket passing as opposed to trying to groom a guy who has instead a mobile improvisational game. In all likelihood, with more coaching Kap will probably be able to become more proficient as a pocket passer, but whether he will be an elite pocket passer or not that is another question.

It's a fair point. The Redskins are going through something similar right now. Do they stick with the uber-athletic RGIII, or go with the more refined pocket passer in Kirk Cousins?

Truth is, the 49ers already made that decision in 2012 when they first gave Kap the keys to the car. He's got all the tools and dedication to make it work, and that's what the team is betting on.

I don't think either approach is right or wrong. There are examples of both succeeding and failing. For every Peyton Manning there is a Tim Couch. For every Steve Young there is a Vince Young.

34 pass play to 19 run plays ( exculding Kaep's runs). Every time we get away from our game we lose.

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
34 pass play to 19 run plays ( exculding Kaep's runs). Every time we get away from our game we lose.

We should never abandon the running game, but there are times when you need to take what the defense gives you. When the defense is loading the box and giving you pass, you have to be able to hit them with the pass. It keeps defenses honest, and keeps the offense going at max efficiency if you can execute properly. The Bears defense tightened up, started to shut down the run, and we failed to back them off. Why would they when the QB is throwing the game away?

The 49ers know they need to improve the passing game to win a SB, and that starts by putting Colin in situations where he has to take advantage of teams loading the box and giving them opportunities down field.. We had some good things going tonight, but Kap unraveled as the game went on. That's the next step in his progression. If he doesn't, we'll never see the offensive consistency that everyone is dying for. It won't happen running the 2011-2013 ground and pound offense. Our QB has to take the next step.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's a fair point. The Redskins are going through something similar right now. Do they stick with the uber-athletic RGIII, or go with the more refined pocket passer in Kirk Cousins?

Truth is, the 49ers already made that decision in 2012 when they first gave Kap the keys to the car. He's got all the tools and dedication to make it work, and that's what the team is betting on.

I don't think either approach is right or wrong. There are examples of both succeeding and failing. For every Peyton Manning there is a Tim Couch. For every Steve Young there is a Vince Young.

Yes, that's true. But, the problem being is we are all harping on Kap that so far he hasn't been able to become that proficient pocket passer.

I am not even saying it is an "either or" type situation as in pocket passer vs mobile QB from a mutually exclusive standpoint, but may be our coaches could think about whether we should just focus on building on his strengths in being a mobile read-option type QB ? I don't know the answer to that. In reality, I believe Kap will probably become someone in between, a guy who can do all the mobile read option stuff as well as being a relatively proficient pocket passer. The only question then becomes whether "relatively proficient" will be good enough to win us our 6th Super Bowl ?

Like the Redskins, I guess at some point we will have to decide what we actually want out of our QB. I have a feeling that will most likely be dictated by results and with that I am sure there will be a subconscious time frame attached to it. Say if Kap can't win us a Super Bowl this year, will next year be OK or the year after... ? Naturally, the longer our Quest For 6 lingers on, the sooner we will need to raise the question whether may be we should just switch tact and go the elite pocket passer route instead ?

Personally speaking, yes I did fall in love with Kap's athletic ability, but to me proper pocket passing is by far the more important attribute in the role of a great QB. But, that's just me.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
34 pass play to 19 run plays ( exculding Kaep's runs). Every time we get away from our game we lose.

We should never abandon the running game, but there are times when you need to take what the defense gives you. When the defense is loading the box and giving you pass, you have to be able to hit them with the pass. It keeps defenses honest, and keeps the offense going at max efficiency if you can execute properly. The Bears defense tightened up, started to shut down the run, and we failed to back them off. Why would they when the QB is throwing the game away?

The 49ers know they need to improve the passing game to win a SB, and that starts by putting Colin in situations where he has to take advantage of teams loading the box and giving them opportunities down field.. We had some good things going tonight, but Kap unraveled as the game went on. That's the next step in his progression. If he doesn't, we'll never see the offensive consistency that everyone is dying for. It won't happen running the 2011-2013 ground and pound offense. Our QB has to take the next step.

Yes. Thank you. And we as fans need to admit this. The coaching staff needs to admit this. Kap needs to admit this and work on his pocket game DAILY. Everyday. Day in day out. He should be working on it right now till 2 AM. Wake up at 8AM and start in again. Non stop. Like an obsessed maniac. Swallow your pride Kap and work with Whitfield daily, in public, at practice, in private....everywhere. Just f**king do it. If you're reading this, which is highly unlikely.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Yes, that's true. But, the problem being is we are all harping on Kap that so far he hasn't been able to become that proficient pocket passer.

I am not even saying it is an "either or" type situation as in pocket passer vs mobile QB from a mutually exclusive standpoint, but may be our coaches could think about whether we should just focus on building on his strengths in being a mobile read-option type QB ? I don't know the answer to that. In reality, I believe Kap will probably become someone in between, a guy who can do all the mobile read option stuff as well as being a relatively proficient pocket passer. The only question then becomes whether "relatively proficient" will be good enough to win us our 6th Super Bowl ?

Like the Redskins, I guess at some point we will have to decide what we actually want out of our QB. I have a feeling that will most likely be dictated by results and with that I am sure there will be a subconscious time frame attached to it. Say if Kap can't win us a Super Bowl this year, will next year be OK or the year after... ? Naturally, the longer our Quest For 6 lingers on, the sooner we will need to raise the question whether may be we should just switch tact and go the elite pocket passer route instead ?

Personally speaking, yes I did fall in love with Kap's athletic ability, but to me proper pocket passing is by far the more important attribute in the role of a great QB. But, that's just me.

Agree. Pocket passing will always reign supreme. I think Kap is capable of getting the job done just the way he is, but this team could be so much better if he develops into a more consistent pocket passer. We don't need to throw more, just throw better.