CB situation

Originally posted by LVJay:
Brock, Reid, Bethea and Spillman are the locks.

Other side of Brock - Cully, Cox or Cookie. We'll just have to see about Cully's status (recovery and/or league discipline?) throughout TC and preseason. I'm okay with Cox (he's solid), but if anyone (Cookie, Johnson, Acker or whomever) can unseat Cox, then that's saying a lot right there.

Morris is doing his part to play the slot... did all he was asked to do in OTAs and it seemed like he impressed the coaches. He's the fastest, not afraid to hit someone going full throttle and has serious closing speed. The rookie yr is out of the way, he's focused and determined to win that spot. Did I mention he has serious closing speed

Ward was a smart pick (put him anywhere / backs up any spot), but I don't think he'll be a full starter this year unless someone gets hurt or a couple of guys don't pan out and get cut/practice squad. Ward will be competing with Morris and (IF) he beats him out, then it will be Morris that will be the back up to Ward. IMO, we're good with either one playing the slot. Of all the rookie DBs, Ward (of course) is the lock even though he is still recovering from injury (unless coaches think otherwise).

If Johnson and Acker step up and makes it (seriously) difficult for coaches to decide which one hits the PS, then that's a plus and definitely helps solidify our secondary.

Dahl, Mc Cray Cray, Ventrone and DJ Campbell... we'll see but..............

I seriously disagree here. IMHO, there isn't anyone on the roster who's better, more tailor made, than Ward for the nickle spot - NOBODY! Granted, Ward will have to earn his way on the field, as it should be. But lets face it, he's a first rounder, so hell get EVERY chance to earn the starting nickleback job. I remember last season many Zoners were saying the same thing about one Eric Reid and doubting him, and I thought then, as I think of Ward now, that he'd be our opening day starter. Now, I like Morris and hope we find a way to keep him on the 53. He'd be a starter on most teams. But I fully expect that Ward WILL earn that nickle spot, and I may be among the few here who thinks that. So for me there isn't an "IF" about it. Jimmie Ward will be a full participant for the REAL training camp when real jobs are on the line. And the fact he was held out of the rookie & voluntary camp will have absolutely no baring whatsoever on his ability to earn the starting nickle/slot CB spot. The guy had a Jones fracture, that he didn't even know he had until he had the routine medical examination at the scouting combine. Hell, many people that get this injury don't even know they have this fracture, especially athletes. In fact, Ward said he didn't even feel it, nor did he have any symptoms from it. I think people are making WAY too much of Ward not being at camp.


IMHO

One of the news tidbits that came out of OTAs was that Brock lined up at LCB. This isn't anything new for Brock, but if this holds, that means Cully may be playing RCB, which I don't recall happening in 12-13.

Originally posted by thl408:
One of the news tidbits that came out of OTAs was that Brock lined up at LCB. This isn't anything new for Brock, but if this holds, that means Cully may be playing RCB, which I don't recall happening in 12-13.

This is true. Didn't Cully play mostly at LCB and on the left side of the field in the slot/nickle? Obviously Brock plays both sides but I wonder if that may mean something in the end. Also, isn't Brock left handed and Cully right? I wonder from a technique perspective if being a lefty/righty helps on certain sides of the field. For instance, I wonder if it's better to have your strong arm wrapped around the WR while the other arm reaches in to knock the ball away...or if the reverse is true.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Jeez, somehow I forgot our last two first rd picks were Ss, or DBs. On a team known for running, blocking, Great D, it is interesting that two yrs in a row we go safety/CB. As for Brock, he should have started the yr ,which we all saw after he replaced the injury. Bethea has his bonafides as a true pass breaker-upper(see his video), not a tackler after the catch like whitner. That leaves 4 more guys, all of whom I like to fill out our DBs, and that speaks volumes about how much better I expect our D backfield this yr. Sure Ward could be a bust, but I doubt it. Still he has to earn his spot, but I am betting he does. Cully I hope is healed with no residual problems, Cox I don't know much about but our late picks are the ones I really am interested in. The ability to play press this yr, esp against SEA, is about as exciting as it gets. Bring on the season.

A lot of that is simply need meeting the BPA. Our Nickel defense has been a weakness these past few years so obviously cap resources are going to go in that direction.

All our DB's look good on paper, but a lot of it will be how they play in the defensive scheme in pre-season. Everybody is picking Ward to be a starter, I don't disagree, but I'd wait until some pre-season games before making that determination. Instincts and feel for the game doesn't always show up in practice or drills. Football intelligence usually shows up on sundays.

Originally posted by Giedi:
A lot of that is simply need meeting the BPA. Our Nickel defense has been a weakness these past few years so obviously cap resources are going to go in that direction.

All our DB's look good on paper, but a lot of it will be how they play in the defensive scheme in pre-season. Everybody is picking Ward to be a starter, I don't disagree, but I'd wait until some pre-season games before making that determination. Instincts and feel for the game doesn't always show up in practice or drills. Football intelligence usually shows up on sundays.

Well the secondary is going to need some help from the DL this season for sure. With Bowman out and Aldon possibly missing some games at the beginning of the season, I think our passing D could suffer a little. In hindsight however, that is why the O was bolstered with the addition of Johnson, Ellington, and the depth behind Gore. I really think the O will need to control the clock and/or score points at will until we can get the defense on track, which probably won't be until mid season. There might be some games where the D might get exposed which is where the points scoring comes in to play by the O. Lets just hope the O is unstoppable like they look on paper right now.

Originally posted by matthewabbit:
Don't forget Ward in the slot.

Man if this group of no names can be a strength on this team give Donatelle a raise. He always does so good with low end draft pick CB's tho so I wouldn't be suprised

Right but wouldn't SF be putting him as backup safety on the roster, so it wouldn't affect the CB depth?

Often the ""Go to" reciever plays off the line flanker on the QB's best side, usually his right, thats why the left CB is usually your best cover/technique guy

Culli seems more suited to play against big split ends on the other side who are on the line that you can press

Of course...offense's show different looks, but you tend to see the best receiver playing on a right hand QB's right side

If ward doesnt see 200 to 400 snaps this season we will hear a lot from captain hindsight regarding our draft.

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by Giedi:

A lot of that is simply need meeting the BPA. Our Nickel defense has been a weakness these past few years so obviously cap resources are going to go in that direction.

All our DB's look good on paper, but a lot of it will be how they play in the defensive scheme in pre-season. Everybody is picking Ward to be a starter, I don't disagree, but I'd wait until some pre-season games before making that determination. Instincts and feel for the game doesn't always show up in practice or drills. Football intelligence usually shows up on sundays.

Well the secondary is going to need some help from the DL this season for sure. With Bowman out and Aldon possibly missing some games at the beginning of the season, I think our passing D could suffer a little. In hindsight however, that is why the O was bolstered with the addition of Johnson, Ellington, and the depth behind Gore. I really think the O will need to control the clock and/or score points at will until we can get the defense on track, which probably won't be until mid season. There might be some games where the D might get exposed which is where the points scoring comes in to play by the O. Lets just hope the O is unstoppable like they look on paper right now.

Justin and Raymac (mostly Justin) is getting up there in age, and I really don't expect Justin to be the monster he's been the last few years. Raymac is getting up there too, but I think he can still bring it. Defensively, I think athleticism and talent shows up faster on defense than on offense. So I actually think the opposite. **IF** Baalke has drafted well defensively with Tank, Ward, Lynch, Skov, and Borland etc.. - almost always that talent shows up right away and we may have a better defense than Carolina or Seadderall. *Maybe,* again that's if Baalke hit a grand slam out of the park. When I say talent shows up faster on defense, my example is Fred Dean and the Rookie DB's in '81, they made this defense go from dead last to number 1 just like that. We didn't lose too much with Lemon-yay in there for Aldon, last year. I think we got lucky there. Whereas offensively, even with Joe, Clark and Solomon, the offense in 1980 was anemic and took till '81 to get a bit untracked.

Cornerbacks I expect to be on the 53 man roster Week 1

Tramaine Brock - starter
Chris Culliver - starter
Jimmie Ward - nickel
Perrish Cox - dime, st, pr
Dontae Johnson - backup
Darryl Morris - backup, st


Whichever way I look at it this is the group I feel most comfortable with going into the season at this point.

- With Culliver back to 100 percent ( which I hope / expect him to be ) + the addition of Dontae Johnson through the draft I dont see a place for Cooks.
- I also dont see Acker beating either Cox or Morris for a roster spot. Hopefully he makes it to the PS.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
One of the news tidbits that came out of OTAs was that Brock lined up at LCB. This isn't anything new for Brock, but if this holds, that means Cully may be playing RCB, which I don't recall happening in 12-13.

This is true. Didn't Cully play mostly at LCB and on the left side of the field in the slot/nickle? Obviously Brock plays both sides but I wonder if that may mean something in the end. Also, isn't Brock left handed and Cully right? I wonder from a technique perspective if being a lefty/righty helps on certain sides of the field. For instance, I wonder if it's better to have your strong arm wrapped around the WR while the other arm reaches in to knock the ball away...or if the reverse is true.

That's an interesting topic. I don't know how handedness would play into a CB being better suited to play LCB or RCB. I suppose it matters whether the CB is trying to funnel the WR to the inside or outside while playing pressing, as well as what you already mentioned about reaching around to knock a pass down. I know that most people have a dominant eye. If the dominant eye is the right eye, the CB may be better suited playing RCB as he runs down the sideline (go pattern) and looks over his right shoulder to locate the ball. Vice versa for left eyed dominant LCBs.

I work with technology that grades baseball umpires and I know they had a study about why many umpires struggle with the outside pitches to left handed batters. A hypothesis was that most umpires were dominant in their right eye (most of the population is), which is the inside portion of the plate to a left handed batter. So they were good with those calls. When pitchers start trying to paint the outside edge of the plate (to left handed batters), umpire's struggled to keep a tight, consistent strikezone since the pitches were going towards the umpire's left eye, normally the non dominant eye. There is no correlation between handedness and "eye-dedness". I'm no optometrist so if anyone can add to this, or correct any false information, please do.

Sorry I flew off on a tangent there.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
If ward doesnt see 200 to 400 snaps this season we will hear a lot from captain hindsight regarding our draft.

I think it's more about who we passed on at #30...the only CBs we passed on until pick 57 was Bradley Roby and Lamarcus Joyner. I liked Joyner, but I felt he was a bit small for safety and won't be anything more than a nickle CB and Roby has the athletic ability to be a shutdown CB, but might be a little bit of a headcase....just curious, has there been any word on these guys thus far?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
One of the news tidbits that came out of OTAs was that Brock lined up at LCB. This isn't anything new for Brock, but if this holds, that means Cully may be playing RCB, which I don't recall happening in 12-13.

This is true. Didn't Cully play mostly at LCB and on the left side of the field in the slot/nickle? Obviously Brock plays both sides but I wonder if that may mean something in the end. Also, isn't Brock left handed and Cully right? I wonder from a technique perspective if being a lefty/righty helps on certain sides of the field. For instance, I wonder if it's better to have your strong arm wrapped around the WR while the other arm reaches in to knock the ball away...or if the reverse is true.

That's an interesting topic. I don't know how handedness would play into a CB being better suited to play LCB or RCB. I suppose it matters whether the CB is trying to funnel the WR to the inside or outside while playing pressing, as well as what you already mentioned about reaching around to knock a pass down. I know that most people have a dominant eye. If the dominant eye is the right eye, the CB may be better suited playing RCB as he runs down the sideline (go pattern) and looks over his right shoulder to locate the ball. Vice versa for left eyed dominant LCBs.

I work with technology that grades baseball umpires and I know they had a study about why many umpires struggle with the outside pitches to left handed batters. A hypothesis was that most umpires were dominant in their right eye (most of the population is), which is the inside portion of the plate to a left handed batter. So they were good with those calls. When pitchers start trying to paint the outside edge of the plate (to left handed batters), umpire's struggled to keep a tight, consistent strikezone since the pitches were going towards the umpire's left eye, normally the non dominant eye. There is no correlation between handedness and "eye-dedness". I'm no optometrist so if anyone can add to this, or correct any false information, please do.

Sorry I flew off on a tangent there.

Facsinating. The strikezone makes a ton of sense actually. Yeah, I'd love to hear from some ex CB's in here as to which side they preferred to play on the outside when they were dominant right-handed, left and why. I would imagine scheme is going to play into this as well. Some defenses just put their best CB on a teams best WR. Period. Other's mix it up, some play more zone and "team defense" back there, etc.

I'm a little surprised no one is giving Cook much of a chance. I could see him playing the nickel with all the good things we've heard from OTAs. I think Jimmie is gonna sit most of year 1, barring an injury.

Originally posted by JLowd:
I'm a little surprised no one is giving Cook much of a chance. I could see him playing the nickel with all the good things we've heard from OTAs. I think Jimmie is gonna sit most of year 1, barring an injury.

I have Cook making the 53.