2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by crabman82:

just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

This is true but RG3 is struggling too and realistically, Russell Wilson is not fairing much better than Kap is, statistically. The difference is that Wilson is better at running around in the pocket and it allows his guys time to get open. When he's been contained he has been pretty average.

Not to mention, a lot of these 2nd year QBs have come from pro-style offenses. Kap did not, and from the time he was drafted, people knew that would be an adjustment. The difference now is that he had success his first year so it made people impatient.

Originally posted by reasonable1:
Marvin....let me clarify my position on Kaep.

Young QBs all go through a period of confusion where they need to find their feet throughout a game. However, when you have two straight weeks where 3 points wins a game, you expect that this young QB would then bring out what is and should be an innate trait and that is to just move the sticks. Find the checkdown, find the short man, move the ball. Kaepernick has not shown the ability to do that in late game situations this season passing the ball and, to a greater extent , he has not shown it when the pressure is on. That is something that you at least have to hang your hat on when other aspects are failing. I am simply not seeing it...whether its his play in Seattle, or his inability to read pre snap d falter after the first read is covered.

I ride with this team no matter and i fully support the kid, but he is simply not playing well at all and two or three throws are not enough for me to maintain that particular level of optimism. He has a long way to go.

And for the record...it is completely legitimate to point out that Kaepernick is a 3rd year QB, who was afforded the rare oportunity to sit and watch his ENTIRE rookie season. Since that is something that this board universally regards as the proper way to develop a QB, I think it is only fair for people to expect that he would be farther along in that development than he is now.

That rare opportunity was afforded to Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers.

I'm not saying its required. I'm just sayin that a year on the bench isn't the same as a year of playing...especially what are as raw Kap was coming in.

He has played poorly. I'm not trying to sell here that nothing is wrong with him. He needs to improve several aspects of his game. What I AM saying is that he still has an astronomical ceiling, he's far from a finished product, and that the struggles on O aren't SOLELY on him.

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

This is true but RG3 is struggling too and realistically, Russell Wilson is not fairing much better than Kap is, statistically. The difference is that Wilson is better at running around in the pocket and it allows his guys time to get open. When he's been contained he has been pretty average.

Not to mention, a lot of these 2nd year QBs have come from pro-style offenses. Kap did not, and from the time he was drafted, people knew that would be an adjustment. The difference now is that he had success his first year so it made people impatient.

Wilson has also had very good play from his WRs.

I'm not saying Kap and Wilson have had the same season. WIlson has played better without question...especially with 3 linemen out. He has struggled a bit tho compared to expections coming out of last year.

It was a painful lost but seeing Drew's neck stretched out like a turtle, priceless.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

This is true but RG3 is struggling too and realistically, Russell Wilson is not fairing much better than Kap is, statistically. The difference is that Wilson is better at running around in the pocket and it allows his guys time to get open. When he's been contained he has been pretty average.

Not to mention, a lot of these 2nd year QBs have come from pro-style offenses. Kap did not, and from the time he was drafted, people knew that would be an adjustment. The difference now is that he had success his first year so it made people impatient.

Wilson has also had very good play from his WRs.

I'm not saying Kap and Wilson have had the same season. WIlson has played better without question...especially with 3 linemen out. He has struggled a bit tho compared to expections coming out of last year.

Wilson can escape bad situations and make plays. Kap hasn't done that this year. Kap escapes bad situations and gets sacked or makes mistakes. He needs to get his head on straight and lead these men. A good leader doesn't forget how many timeouts his team has left. Even I knew that in my drunken state.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

This is true but RG3 is struggling too and realistically, Russell Wilson is not fairing much better than Kap is, statistically. The difference is that Wilson is better at running around in the pocket and it allows his guys time to get open. When he's been contained he has been pretty average.

Not to mention, a lot of these 2nd year QBs have come from pro-style offenses. Kap did not, and from the time he was drafted, people knew that would be an adjustment. The difference now is that he had success his first year so it made people impatient.

Wilson has also had very good play from his WRs.

I'm not saying Kap and Wilson have had the same season. WIlson has played better without question...especially with 3 linemen out. He has struggled a bit tho compared to expections coming out of last year.

the difference i notice is that when wilson has a bad game he still throws an 80 yard TD or has 70-100 yards rushing and his team still wins. he has a strong team around him like kaep does too. for all of wilsons struggles hes still sitting at 19 tds with 6 picks and a 105 rating. i'd love to have that and still be able to call it meh.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

This is true but RG3 is struggling too and realistically, Russell Wilson is not fairing much better than Kap is, statistically. The difference is that Wilson is better at running around in the pocket and it allows his guys time to get open. When he's been contained he has been pretty average.

Not to mention, a lot of these 2nd year QBs have come from pro-style offenses. Kap did not, and from the time he was drafted, people knew that would be an adjustment. The difference now is that he had success his first year so it made people impatient.

Wilson has also had very good play from his WRs.

I'm not saying Kap and Wilson have had the same season. WIlson has played better without question...especially with 3 linemen out. He has struggled a bit tho compared to expections coming out of last year.

the difference i notice is that when wilson has a bad game he still throws an 80 yard TD or has 70-100 yards rushing and his team still wins. he has a strong team around him like kaep does too. for all of wilsons struggles hes still sitting at 19 tds with 6 picks and a 105 rating. i'd love to have that and still be able to call it meh.

Thats what I'm sayin....Wilson has had a better year. These receivers are helping him far more than they are helping Kap and he's responded better to pressure.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

This is true but RG3 is struggling too and realistically, Russell Wilson is not fairing much better than Kap is, statistically. The difference is that Wilson is better at running around in the pocket and it allows his guys time to get open. When he's been contained he has been pretty average.

Not to mention, a lot of these 2nd year QBs have come from pro-style offenses. Kap did not, and from the time he was drafted, people knew that would be an adjustment. The difference now is that he had success his first year so it made people impatient.

Wilson has also had very good play from his WRs.

I'm not saying Kap and Wilson have had the same season. WIlson has played better without question...especially with 3 linemen out. He has struggled a bit tho compared to expections coming out of last year.

the difference i notice is that when wilson has a bad game he still throws an 80 yard TD or has 70-100 yards rushing and his team still wins. he has a strong team around him like kaep does too. for all of wilsons struggles hes still sitting at 19 tds with 6 picks and a 105 rating. i'd love to have that and still be able to call it meh.

Thats what I'm sayin....Wilson has had a better year. These receivers are helping him far more than they are helping Kap and he's responded better to pressure.

i just see many saying wilson while better right now hasnt been great this season or whatever, or that he has had his bad moments. when i look at his stats and his tape, its not all world or all pro but its pretty damn good. if some of us are saying he isnt playing that great, then i'm scared for when the light finally goes on for that guy.

Originally posted by sixbricks:
It was a painful lost but seeing Drew's neck stretched out like a turtle, priceless.

Marvin...again thanks for posting! Ninertalk is complete crap right now and your post seems like the only one worth reading. Everything else is filled with over-reactions. Threads to get rid of Baalke? Harbs? Kaep? Do people remember until 3 years ago the 49ers were always a below average team that finished 6-10 or 7-9. Now we have a team that's one of the best in the NFL and people freak out because we don't have a QB that throws for 300, etc...

To your points... (F) is spot on. If Gore catches the pass or McDonald or Baldwin, etc... Kaep stats would have been like 220, with 3 td's and the Niners would have went into New Orleans and won. Kaep shares some blame as well but the Zone always has to have a scapegoat and I can't believe that they have picked Kaep???

To your point about the playoffs... I think we are ok for the 5th or 6th seed. I never thought we would win the division. Seattle is a good team with an easy record. In fact, any if we lose to them, I think we will win the other games and finish at 11-5. We really only need to worry about winning our games. I look at the NFC teams and if we just get in, I feel good about our chances. We know we can beat teams like Chicago, Green Bay, Saints, etc... Carolina I think was more our stagnant O than them being great. Seattle is the only team that gives us major concern. We just don't matchup well.

I've made this comparision many times and I'll say it again...This team reminds me of the 05-06 Steelers. Big Ben's 2nd year as the QB. His stats that year were medicore. 2,385 yards, 17 tds and 9 Ints. He was still learning on the go but the team road a dominant D and strong run game with Bettis. Our team is built the same. Our backs will be against the wall and everyone will be doubting us because we didn't win the division. If crabtree can come back it will help Kaep and the run game even more. I can't wait till the playoffs. We just need to win our games and get there.

One of your best posts, Marvin. Thanks for the perspective.

Wanted to talk about another issue of late. Is it just me or does it seem as if the opposing teams have been gouging us right up the middle on runs? Sure seems like we are giving up 3-4 yards a pop with our defensive line being pushed backwards most of the time. I know that Dorsey is undersized but where are Bowman and Willis with the support (especially Willis)?

Yesterday both RBs averaged over 4 yards a run.

Jeez, so many things to work on...

Originally posted by pete98146:
Wanted to talk about another issue of late. Is it just me or does it seem as if the opposing teams have been gouging us right up the middle on runs? Sure seems like we are giving up 3-4 yards a pop with our defensive line being pushed backwards most of the time. I know that Dorsey is undersized but where are Bowman and Willis with the support (especially Willis)?

Yesterday both RBs averaged over 4 yards a run.

Jeez, so many things to work on...

I think its because they are trying to stop the run with only the front 7...IE they never put a safety up there. The result is that they are good against the run but not stupendous. The other result is that we are FAR better in pass defense because there are always 2 safeties back there.

Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

How often do rookie QB's like Wilson and Luck come along? Really, just take a few moments and look back at the first few years of the starting QB's in the league right now. Brees and Young have been mentioned here as an example. Montana's first few years weren't so hot and he wasn't just thrown in there like Kap was. It seems like a dark time, but let us not forget about how bright it was last year. Neither are the absolute truth of Kap. He does have the upside to play, in a few years, like he did last year. Let's remember what we saw last year. Why are so many of so impatient,so willing to go from one extreme of over optimism to over pessimism? Why are we so quick to become so critical and negative of the players on a team that went to the NFC playoffs and Superbowl the last few years. There are so many here that act like bunch of mean, spoiled kids.

Originally posted by barrymartin:

Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

How often do rookie QB's like Wilson and Luck come along? Really, just take a few moments and look back at the first few years of the starting QB's in the league right now. Brees and Young have been mentioned here as an example. Montana's first few years weren't so hot and he wasn't just thrown in there like Kap was. It seems like a dark time, but let us not forget about how bright it was last year. Neither are the absolute truth of Kap. He does have the upside to play, in a few years, like he did last year. Let's remember what we saw last year. Why are so many of so impatient,so willing to go from one extreme of over optimism to over pessimism? Why are we so quick to become so critical and negative of the players on a team that went to the NFC playoffs and Superbowl the last few years. There are so many here that act like bunch of mean, spoiled kids.

the game changed when flacco and ryan led teams to playoffs as rookies. then a few years later wilson, luck and rg3 come along. you used to groom guys, that doesnt happen anymore. using examples from 10 or 20 years ago doesnt really fit for today IMO