SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS SEATTLE SEAHAWKS GAMEDAY THREAD (WEEK 14)

Originally posted by verb1der:
Ronnie Lott was on KNBR this morning and he said Kaep MUST go after Seattle's secondary in order for them to win. Instead of staying away from them which is exactly what Seattle wants you to do.

I agree!

Cant do that if the OL doesn't give kaep some time

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Ronnie Lott was on KNBR this morning and he said Kaep MUST go after Seattle's secondary in order for them to win. Instead of staying away from them which is exactly what Seattle wants you to do.

I agree!

Cant do that if the OL doesn't give kaep some time

Then the oline must give him time.


All units will have to bring their top game this Sunday.

Originally posted by NCommand:
These are very valid points JC. Naturally, we aren't too fond of our OC to say these least (esp. the run game as of late and our passing game overall that relies on 1 or 2 receivers only). Seattle is excellent of playing jam-defense; stuffing the WR's at the LOS and being physical with them througout (and after) the play. As a result, they can also stack the box and run blitz - stop the run en route to pressuring the QB. It's THAT simple. Dick and their S allow them to do this and it works great. I don't see many glaring holes in their defense or their scheme.

Where JC is coming from is that we "may" see a different game plan this time around b/c week 2, despite all the prep-time, was about as counter-productive as you can get and despite that, it was still a fairly close game until the very end. If Roman wants to win this game, it will come down to one down: First down production. He has GOT to use his full arsenal and the ENTIRE field against Seattle to loosen them up. Basically we should prepare for a lot of this: . 3 yard run, 4 yard swing pass, 7 yard soft zone catch by Miller/McDonald/Gore, etc. Basically, slowly body-blow them, spread them out with 3 and 4 WR's to create short easy passes and bigger running lanes. When they blitz the edge, hit a quick pass to that spot with Gore/James/Hunter. Then in the second half, the DL should be more tired and worn down from being on the field so much and then start taking some more intermediate and deeper shots. Dick and company are terrific on the edges and deep coverage but where they do have a weakness is on outside, inside (quickness) moves esp. against bigger bodies with Boldin/Crabtree who can use their bodies. Manningham can be electric off the LOS to create space but he has to be clean. Running him from the slot could be a big mismatch in our favor. McDonald could be the X-factor in this game. If Roman ever decides to use him in the more traditional WCO manner, dropping down in those soft zones as an outlet for CK "when" he gets pressure, he is not only a guy who can instantly turn and get YAC but PUNISH anyone who tries to tackle him (body-blow).

Essentially, this game comes down to almost 100% on Roman and will have to be completely opposite from any offense we've run in two years and esp. against Seattle. It will require patience, real production (not 0 or negative yards) on first down, be methodical and in the passing game, provide several receiving options for CK esp. outlets when he IS pressured. I have yet to see anything close to this for CK and this offense thus far so we'll see. Roman is out of excuses now...

I hear ya. Personally I think it's difficult to compare the week 2 game plan to what they'll do in week 14. So many more things open up for VD, Boldin and now Manningham with the addition of Crabtree on the outside.

SEA has played everybody pretty similarly from a scheme standpoint. They might tweak things a little but for the most part you're going to get a base defense with a lot of man on the outside and an extra guy in the box to help w/ the run.

If SF can run the ball, they'll be in good shape but things will have to happen in the passing game as well. Balance wins this game. I personally don't think the dink & dunk offense wins against SEA. You'll get yards out of it but they're pretty disciplined and tend to avoid getting sucked in and burned over the top (of course it can and does happen on occasion but not enough to cost them games).

Gotta run effectively and throw out of P/A. I agree that you have to be able to make those intermediate and short passes to keep SEA honest, but that's just to force SEA to keep those safeties and LBs where you want them. Screens are fine, but you have to time them properly because SEA has played very well against the screen (IIRC against everybody but HOU). Get inside the red zone, run the ball and then hit VD or McDonald on a 3-4 yard slant in the end zone.

edit: I should add that I think it's interesting that SEA will have such limited film to go off of with Crabtree and Manninham from 2013. Going to have to look at a lot of 2012 film and to me, that's an opportunity for SF to change things up in the passing game. Wish I could speak to which routes Kaep's #1 target favors but if they can throw some wrinkles in to give similar starts to those routes and then change it up on the back end, it could result in some blown coverages.

20-13

Niners

Originally posted by ECLaloosh:

Originally posted by NCommand:
These are very valid points JC. Naturally, we aren't too fond of our OC to say these least (esp. the run game as of late and our passing game overall that relies on 1 or 2 receivers only). Seattle is excellent of playing jam-defense; stuffing the WR's at the LOS and being physical with them througout (and after) the play. As a result, they can also stack the box and run blitz - stop the run en route to pressuring the QB. It's THAT simple. Dick and their S allow them to do this and it works great. I don't see many glaring holes in their defense or their scheme.

Where JC is coming from is that we "may" see a different game plan this time around b/c week 2, despite all the prep-time, was about as counter-productive as you can get and despite that, it was still a fairly close game until the very end. If Roman wants to win this game, it will come down to one down: First down production. He has GOT to use his full arsenal and the ENTIRE field against Seattle to loosen them up. Basically we should prepare for a lot of this: . 3 yard run, 4 yard swing pass, 7 yard soft zone catch by Miller/McDonald/Gore, etc. Basically, slowly body-blow them, spread them out with 3 and 4 WR's to create short easy passes and bigger running lanes. When they blitz the edge, hit a quick pass to that spot with Gore/James/Hunter. Then in the second half, the DL should be more tired and worn down from being on the field so much and then start taking some more intermediate and deeper shots. Dick and company are terrific on the edges and deep coverage but where they do have a weakness is on outside, inside (quickness) moves esp. against bigger bodies with Boldin/Crabtree who can use their bodies. Manningham can be electric off the LOS to create space but he has to be clean. Running him from the slot could be a big mismatch in our favor. McDonald could be the X-factor in this game. If Roman ever decides to use him in the more traditional WCO manner, dropping down in those soft zones as an outlet for CK "when" he gets pressure, he is not only a guy who can instantly turn and get YAC but PUNISH anyone who tries to tackle him (body-blow).

Essentially, this game comes down to almost 100% on Roman and will have to be completely opposite from any offense we've run in two years and esp. against Seattle. It will require patience, real production (not 0 or negative yards) on first down, be methodical and in the passing game, provide several receiving options for CK esp. outlets when he IS pressured. I have yet to see anything close to this for CK and this offense thus far so we'll see. Roman is out of excuses now...

I hear ya. Personally I think it's difficult to compare the week 2 game plan to what they'll do in week 14. So many more things open up for VD, Boldin and now Manningham with the addition of Crabtree on the outside.

SEA has played everybody pretty similarly from a scheme standpoint. They might tweak things a little but for the most part you're going to get a base defense with a lot of man on the outside and an extra guy in the box to help w/ the run.

If SF can run the ball, they'll be in good shape but things will have to happen in the passing game as well. Balance wins this game. I personally don't think the dink & dunk offense wins against SEA. You'll get yards out of it but they're pretty disciplined and tend to avoid getting sucked in and burned over the top (of course it can and does happen on occasion but not enough to cost them games).

Gotta run effectively and throw out of P/A. I agree that you have to be able to make those intermediate and short passes to keep SEA honest, but that's just to force SEA to keep those safeties and LBs where you want them. Screens are fine, but you have to time them properly because SEA has played very well against the screen (IIRC against everybody but HOU). Get inside the red zone, run the ball and then hit VD or McDonald on a 3-4 yard slant in the end zone.

Would you like to be our new OC?

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Ronnie Lott was on KNBR this morning and he said Kaep MUST go after Seattle's secondary in order for them to win. Instead of staying away from them which is exactly what Seattle wants you to do.

I agree!

Cant do that if the OL doesn't give kaep some time

Then the oline must give him time.


All units will have to bring their top game this Sunday.

Exactly..thats the formula for Seattle's D 8 guys in Zone coverage and let the DL go for broke

Stop the DL ..and holes all over the field for Kaep to throw in

Originally posted by PrisonOfGlass:

Originally posted by ECLaloosh:

Originally posted by NCommand:
These are very valid points JC. Naturally, we aren't too fond of our OC to say these least (esp. the run game as of late and our passing game overall that relies on 1 or 2 receivers only). Seattle is excellent of playing jam-defense; stuffing the WR's at the LOS and being physical with them througout (and after) the play. As a result, they can also stack the box and run blitz - stop the run en route to pressuring the QB. It's THAT simple. Dick and their S allow them to do this and it works great. I don't see many glaring holes in their defense or their scheme.

Where JC is coming from is that we "may" see a different game plan this time around b/c week 2, despite all the prep-time, was about as counter-productive as you can get and despite that, it was still a fairly close game until the very end. If Roman wants to win this game, it will come down to one down: First down production. He has GOT to use his full arsenal and the ENTIRE field against Seattle to loosen them up. Basically we should prepare for a lot of this: . 3 yard run, 4 yard swing pass, 7 yard soft zone catch by Miller/McDonald/Gore, etc. Basically, slowly body-blow them, spread them out with 3 and 4 WR's to create short easy passes and bigger running lanes. When they blitz the edge, hit a quick pass to that spot with Gore/James/Hunter. Then in the second half, the DL should be more tired and worn down from being on the field so much and then start taking some more intermediate and deeper shots. Dick and company are terrific on the edges and deep coverage but where they do have a weakness is on outside, inside (quickness) moves esp. against bigger bodies with Boldin/Crabtree who can use their bodies. Manningham can be electric off the LOS to create space but he has to be clean. Running him from the slot could be a big mismatch in our favor. McDonald could be the X-factor in this game. If Roman ever decides to use him in the more traditional WCO manner, dropping down in those soft zones as an outlet for CK "when" he gets pressure, he is not only a guy who can instantly turn and get YAC but PUNISH anyone who tries to tackle him (body-blow).

Essentially, this game comes down to almost 100% on Roman and will have to be completely opposite from any offense we've run in two years and esp. against Seattle. It will require patience, real production (not 0 or negative yards) on first down, be methodical and in the passing game, provide several receiving options for CK esp. outlets when he IS pressured. I have yet to see anything close to this for CK and this offense thus far so we'll see. Roman is out of excuses now...

I hear ya. Personally I think it's difficult to compare the week 2 game plan to what they'll do in week 14. So many more things open up for VD, Boldin and now Manningham with the addition of Crabtree on the outside.

SEA has played everybody pretty similarly from a scheme standpoint. They might tweak things a little but for the most part you're going to get a base defense with a lot of man on the outside and an extra guy in the box to help w/ the run.

If SF can run the ball, they'll be in good shape but things will have to happen in the passing game as well. Balance wins this game. I personally don't think the dink & dunk offense wins against SEA. You'll get yards out of it but they're pretty disciplined and tend to avoid getting sucked in and burned over the top (of course it can and does happen on occasion but not enough to cost them games).

Gotta run effectively and throw out of P/A. I agree that you have to be able to make those intermediate and short passes to keep SEA honest, but that's just to force SEA to keep those safeties and LBs where you want them. Screens are fine, but you have to time them properly because SEA has played very well against the screen (IIRC against everybody but HOU). Get inside the red zone, run the ball and then hit VD or McDonald on a 3-4 yard slant in the end zone.

Would you like to be our new OC?

I'd love to. SEA fan as SF OC? Deal! Get Jed on the phone, ASAP.

Originally posted by ECLaloosh:
I hear ya. Personally I think it's difficult to compare the week 2 game plan to what they'll do in week 14. So many more things open up for VD, Boldin and now Manningham with the addition of Crabtree on the outside.

SEA has played everybody pretty similarly from a scheme standpoint. They might tweak things a little but for the most part you're going to get a base defense with a lot of man on the outside and an extra guy in the box to help w/ the run.

If SF can run the ball, they'll be in good shape but things will have to happen in the passing game as well. Balance wins this game. I personally don't think the dink & dunk offense wins against SEA. You'll get yards out of it but they're pretty disciplined and tend to avoid getting sucked in and burned over the top (of course it can and does happen on occasion but not enough to cost them games).

Gotta run effectively and throw out of P/A. I agree that you have to be able to make those intermediate and short passes to keep SEA honest, but that's just to force SEA to keep those safeties and LBs where you want them. Screens are fine, but you have to time them properly because SEA has played very well against the screen (IIRC against everybody but HOU). Get inside the red zone, run the ball and then hit VD or McDonald on a 3-4 yard slant in the end zone.

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I know the Seattle DBs can be burned if a receiver can get out of a jam, but the pass needs to be long, not short. We saw Brees make this mistake repeatedly. I recall one play where Sherman was beat by a step but Brees put the ball short, allowing Sherman to make a play. That's one argument for big plays. But that hinges on a receiver getting a nice release and/or beating the jam. In addition, running a dink and dunk offense against Seattle can work, but that needs to be run to perfection for 10+ plays. That's something quite frankly the Niners haven't been terrific at this year. They've done it, just not consistently.

But running that dink and dunk can wear out a good Seattle defense. They are extremely good and converging on the ball and stopping a play quickly. They also don't miss many tackles. Keeping that defense out there for an extended period by grinding down the field could force the Hawks into some mistakes which can lead to big plays. It is also demoralizing and could get Seattle's defense bickering (I've seen Sherman have animated conversations with his own DBs after he gets beat).

In either case, the passing game is going to boil down to the Niners receivers beating their man and Kap making some precise throws. Seattle will be in a single high look likely all game since Earl Thomas is playing out of his mind right now. Pressure will probably be an issue all game. I don't see the running game having much success on Sunday. Just a feeling. I think it's going to fall on Kap to play a really great game and move the chains. Get a big play here and there and play field position.

Originally posted by JoeBart324:

Originally posted by ECLaloosh:
I hear ya. Personally I think it's difficult to compare the week 2 game plan to what they'll do in week 14. So many more things open up for VD, Boldin and now Manningham with the addition of Crabtree on the outside.

SEA has played everybody pretty similarly from a scheme standpoint. They might tweak things a little but for the most part you're going to get a base defense with a lot of man on the outside and an extra guy in the box to help w/ the run.

If SF can run the ball, they'll be in good shape but things will have to happen in the passing game as well. Balance wins this game. I personally don't think the dink & dunk offense wins against SEA. You'll get yards out of it but they're pretty disciplined and tend to avoid getting sucked in and burned over the top (of course it can and does happen on occasion but not enough to cost them games).

Gotta run effectively and throw out of P/A. I agree that you have to be able to make those intermediate and short passes to keep SEA honest, but that's just to force SEA to keep those safeties and LBs where you want them. Screens are fine, but you have to time them properly because SEA has played very well against the screen (IIRC against everybody but HOU). Get inside the red zone, run the ball and then hit VD or McDonald on a 3-4 yard slant in the end zone.

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I know the Seattle DBs can be burned if a receiver can get out of a jam, but the pass needs to be long, not short. We saw Brees make this mistake repeatedly. I recall one play where Sherman was beat by a step but Brees put the ball short, allowing Sherman to make a play. That's one argument for big plays. But that hinges on a receiver getting a nice release and/or beating the jam. In addition, running a dink and dunk offense against Seattle can work, but that needs to be run to perfection for 10+ plays. That's something quite frankly the Niners haven't been terrific at this year. They've done it, just not consistently.

But running that dink and dunk can wear out a good Seattle defense. They are extremely good and converging on the ball and stopping a play quickly. They also don't miss many tackles. Keeping that defense out there for an extended period by grinding down the field could force the Hawks into some mistakes which can lead to big plays. It is also demoralizing and could get Seattle's defense bickering (I've seen Sherman have animated conversations with his own DBs after he gets beat).

In either case, the passing game is going to boil down to the Niners receivers beating their man and Kap making some precise throws. Seattle will be in a single high look likely all game since Earl Thomas is playing out of his mind right now. Pressure will probably be an issue all game. I don't see the running game having much success on Sunday. Just a feeling. I think it's going to fall on Kap to play a really great game and move the chains. Get a big play here and there and play field position.

Thanks loosh.

Yeah, remember, the last time we beat them was with Alex and towards the end of the game, we scraped the game plan and just starting running both Gore and Walker out of the backfield, turning around, catching short passes in the holes and they would get a couple more yards of RAC. Eventally, it opened things up enough for a Walker TD. It worked b/c we took what the defense gave us, picked on the simple, quick pass, soft zones and turned up field. By being in 2nd and 3rd and very manageable distances, it opened up our run AND passing game to keep moving the chains and gave Alex an easy outlet if he was pressured.

Right now, we're constantly in 2nd and 10 or even 2nd and even longer which means we HAVE to pass for intermediate ranges and usually, right into a pass rush (only time for one read). This is one of the big reason why our YPA are so high...b/c of our piss poor production (if any) on 1st downs.

Originally posted by JoeBart324:

Originally posted by ECLaloosh:
I hear ya. Personally I think it's difficult to compare the week 2 game plan to what they'll do in week 14. So many more things open up for VD, Boldin and now Manningham with the addition of Crabtree on the outside.

SEA has played everybody pretty similarly from a scheme standpoint. They might tweak things a little but for the most part you're going to get a base defense with a lot of man on the outside and an extra guy in the box to help w/ the run.

If SF can run the ball, they'll be in good shape but things will have to happen in the passing game as well. Balance wins this game. I personally don't think the dink & dunk offense wins against SEA. You'll get yards out of it but they're pretty disciplined and tend to avoid getting sucked in and burned over the top (of course it can and does happen on occasion but not enough to cost them games).

Gotta run effectively and throw out of P/A. I agree that you have to be able to make those intermediate and short passes to keep SEA honest, but that's just to force SEA to keep those safeties and LBs where you want them. Screens are fine, but you have to time them properly because SEA has played very well against the screen (IIRC against everybody but HOU). Get inside the red zone, run the ball and then hit VD or McDonald on a 3-4 yard slant in the end zone.

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I know the Seattle DBs can be burned if a receiver can get out of a jam, but the pass needs to be long, not short. We saw Brees make this mistake repeatedly. I recall one play where Sherman was beat by a step but Brees put the ball short, allowing Sherman to make a play. That's one argument for big plays. But that hinges on a receiver getting a nice release and/or beating the jam. In addition, running a dink and dunk offense against Seattle can work, but that needs to be run to perfection for 10+ plays. That's something quite frankly the Niners haven't been terrific at this year. They've done it, just not consistently.

But running that dink and dunk can wear out a good Seattle defense. They are extremely good and converging on the ball and stopping a play quickly. They also don't miss many tackles. Keeping that defense out there for an extended period by grinding down the field could force the Hawks into some mistakes which can lead to big plays. It is also demoralizing and could get Seattle's defense bickering (I've seen Sherman have animated conversations with his own DBs after he gets beat).

In either case, the passing game is going to boil down to the Niners receivers beating their man and Kap making some precise throws. Seattle will be in a single high look likely all game since Earl Thomas is playing out of his mind right now. Pressure will probably be an issue all game. I don't see the running game having much success on Sunday. Just a feeling. I think it's going to fall on Kap to play a really great game and move the chains. Get a big play here and there and play field position.

Brees had trouble getting going but they tried to dink and dunk with very, very little success (to the tune of 38 attempts for 147 yards which is a ridiculous 3.8 Y/A). Of course if they could hit one extra pass here or there it could have been quite different but it shows the discipline. If Brees can't use that strategy to wear down SEA's defense, I just don't think it's likely to expect it out of Kaepernick (because he's not a quick pass/ finesse guy). Watch Shaub for most of that game in HOU. They utilized their RBs really well and SEA just couldn't slow down Johnson. SEA seems to give up bigger gains on those running plays that start up the gut but the back bounces it outside and hits some space. If you can break one or two of those, I imagine SF sees a lot more success in their passing game.

I completely agree with the idea that SF receivers simply need to win their matchups (that includes blocking).

prisco picking us

49ers (minus 3): This is the pick that will shock many, but I think it's one of the easier picks in a long time. The Seahawks are coming off an emotional Monday night game, and now must travel to face a division rival that is getting hot at the right time. The 49ers will do what Seattle does to most teams: Physically beat up the Seahawks. I love this pick.

our defense has to make a statement that these fools cant move the ball on us. they did a great job last time until the end of the game. gotta finish this time. on offense i think having crabs and mario back opens up more of the playbook for us so im not really worried about it. when boldin isnt doubled and tripled kap should be alright. 3 WR sets with VD to start the game and fire on these motherf**kers!!! the close it out with Gire

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
more of McDonald and James in the passing game ....getting two more weapons consistently in the mix will keep the Hacks on their toes ...then Gore can unleash the violence on them

Are the coaches hesitant to get James more involved on offense because he's our primary returner now? I agree, I'd like to see him out there in the passing game. But our tendency appears to be to either keep our return man's involvement in the offense to a minimum (Ginn, James) or have the returner fair catch basically everything (Williams).

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Ronnie Lott was on KNBR this morning and he said Kaep MUST go after Seattle's secondary in order for them to win. Instead of staying away from them which is exactly what Seattle wants you to do.

I agree!

Cant do that if the OL doesn't give kaep some time

Just have Kaep keep throwing Sherman's way. High Risk High Reward. Could work and be like Luck. Could get intercepted or batted down, losing a down possibly causing a turnover or pick six.

Todd Dybas ‏@Todd_Dybas13m
Carroll says on KIRO 97.3 this morning that Harvin is out this weekend. No surprise there. #Seahawks