GUESS THE 53!!

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Why would we not keep 4 RBs? We kept 4 last year, and were fine. No way Gore gets cur, it's a slap in the face. Plus LMJ and Hunter have upside, as does Lattimore, just ride with those 4 for the time being.

Anyone thinking Gore is done, is dead wrong.

I just wonder how this is going to be handled by the front office. If Lattimore bursts on the scene next year does that open the option of trading Gore and getting something in return for him, like Walsh always tried to do with older players or is he held onto because of sentiment? Or does allowing Gore and Lattimore to split carries as the bruising back make more sense so Lattimore can be fresh for the long haul?

Guess the 46 is the best way to go about this. The last 7 are basically a developmental stash for redshirted players that are too risky to expose to the PS. And don't forget the needs of the STs.

My early guess for the 46, assuming Tank not suiting in the early part of the season, Lattimore in IR/PUP, Manningham available health-wise and no major surprises in TC (there are always surprises, but by definition you can't predict them )

Kicking team: the three usual suspects

Offense: 22

OL (7): Boone, Iupati, Looney, Staley, Davis, Snyder, Kilgore. I think Goodwin is a cap casualty unless he takes a pay cut.

QB (3): CK, McCoy, Daniels if he can help in ST, otherwise Tolzien and Daniels to the PS.

RB (5/4): Gire, Hunter, LMJ, Miller, [Dixon (ST)]

TE (3): VD, McDonald, Celek

WR (4/5): Crabtree, Boldin, Williams (ST), Jenkins/Manningham (if Manningham doesn't beat Jenkins by a big margin I see him cut), [Moore (ST)].

Re: Dixon/Moore. I can see us carrying 4 RBs and 5 WR if the 5th receiver is more of a help in STs. If someone like that emerges, then it's curtains for Dixon.

Defense: 21

DL (5/4): Dorsey, Justin, RayMac, Ian (if he can't get in the 46 regularly this year he's not worth keeping) [+ 1 more from the rest depending on scheme]. I can see Dial in the 53 but not suiting up and one of the Dobbs/Tukuafu brigade suiting up instead, but that really will depend on the camp showings.

LB (7/8): Aldon, Brooks, Haralson, [Lemonier], Willis, Bowman, Moody (primarily ST), Skuta (ST). If Haralson gets beat in TC by Lemonier he could be in trouble. Alternatively we can carry both and keep 4 linemen.

DB (9): Rogers, Brown, Cully, Nnamdi (I assume he shows enough in TC), Spillman (ST), Whitner, Reid, Dahl. There needs to be one more STeamer here (eg. McBath or Brock) and that's a TC battle. My early money is on Brock. I don't see Cox making it unless he lights it up in TC, in which case it would be the end for Nnamdi probably.

That makes it 6 or 7 ST specialists (+3 in the kicking team). Predicting the ST squad particularly after last year's poor showing is tough at this stage.

The 7 man stash is just made for people like Tank, Dial, Patton, Lemonier (if he gets beat by Haralson), a couple of DBs drafted in the last couple of years, and the odd crazy prospect that is not safe to expose to the PS (e.g. Okoye if he pans out). Plus of course room for non-IR injuries

I think there is no way that Tukuafu doesn't make the team. He played too much on offense, defense, and ST last year to be replaced by a rookie.

I think Gray's future is tied to his ability to play ST obviously, but I think he is already more valuable than Celek on ST. But also, his future is linked to McDonald's development as a blocker. VD can't be the only TE on the roster that we can feel comfortable in a blocking role, running the ball as much as we do. But I would love to see Gray on the roster and McDonald at least be serviceable as a blocker.

I think Fleming is really in competition with Moody. Coverage was one of his strengths in college and our ILBs are asked to cover a lot. I think the team would love if he could back up all 4 LB positions without being that much of a ST drop off from Moody.

I think the team would love it if Cooper beats out Brock at Gunner. They don't need either of them to help out at CB during a game unless 2 CBs go down durin the game. He would be cheaper and Brock is gone after this year.

I think Kyle Williams makes the team. ST is valued too much to have that big if a question mark at punt returner. I think manningham, Lockette, and Patton are competing for 2 spots.


Finally, unless Robinson shows he is a legitamate option at SS I don't see him making the team. He didn't wow on STs last year, (Couldn't even beat out Mcbath) it would almost make more sense to keep extra corners in today's NFL. Because of their size some of them could play emergency safety and Dahl and spillman are serviceable for a game or two at either position. PS, I would love if we take Whitner out of our nickel and dime packages and put someone that won't get picked on as much as he did last year. If you add up his dropped INTs and tds and 1st downs given up it almost adds up to his total tackles.

I think Kyle Williams makes the team and is active on game day over Ricardo Lockette.

Okoye will be placed on Practice squad unless he proves in preseason games to be a quick learner and unblock able at times.

Lockette will return to practice squad once Manningham returns, A.J. Jenkins will have a shot to steal the 3rd receiver job away while he is out.

We will not keep a back up full back, Mcdonald may get work as FB or CELEK.

Kilgore is the back up at center with Looney being the back up for both guards. Adam Snyder will probably make the team but like you I hope a younger tackle with potential makes it instead.

Thats right Anthony Dixon is the back up FB and is not on your list

After the first 22 starters, I think people will be pretty surprised at who the FO keeps. If they didnt feel that players like Tuku, Dobbs, Celek, etc were upgradable they wouldnt have drafted 10 players.

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:

Originally posted by Rascal:
So, you've cut Kyle Williams and Anthony Dixon ??!!

Yup, I was really contemplating keeping Kyle, but I like the size/speed combo of Ricardo. This is contingent on Jimbo feeling confident in LMJ, Cox and possibly Patton to return punts. I really hope James makes strides this year in that roll.

As far as Dixon, I was surprised me made it last year, Im done with him. The only reason I could see keeping him around is short yardage situations, but I don't think he would be better than Miller in that roll. I would like to see Rathman take Millers game to the next level and groom him for those snaps.

Hmm, OK as far as Kyle goes, I see him as a proven or improving slot receiver with experience which should secure him a spot if he is 100% fully recovered from his ACL. I don't see AJ, Ricardo and Quinton, all 3 of them breaking out. Instead, I see 2 of them making it. I see Jim Harbaugh giving Ricardo an opportunity given his incredible measurables, but I am not convinced AJ can beat out Quinton. Even though he has added bulk, I think Quinton's conscientious work ethic will help to propel himself pass AJ, at least in the long run. Bottomline, only 1 of the 2 will make it for the start of the season.

As for Anthony, I have seen him play well on special teams on the kick recovery unit plus he can also do the short yardage. I think he still might be able to make it, just. Plus, I simply don't know enough about Jewel Hampton.

I sure hope that you're wrong, Rascal. The Niners simply have to move on from Kyle, otherwise they have done a really poor job of upgrading their WR position. KW is unfortunately not that good. Sure he's got that choppy running style, but watching him, he's not really that fast, quick-twitch, elusive, jitter-bug receiver at all. Basically you're saying that AJ is a bust, because that is the only way he should be beaten out by KW. And as for Patton beating out AJ . . . Jenkins has significantly better measurables, faster with a superior initial burst as well (according to what MM reported observing) . . . first round pick as well . . . so, again are you implying that he's a bust?

Yet are you saying that Lockette somehow leapfrogs AJ on the depth chart also? Because of measurables? While completely ignoring AJs measurables. How are you coming to these conclusions? Based upon Harbaugh's throw away remark? His working out with CK7? That's it?

While we are on the WR subject, I also hope that the Niners upgrade from Mannigham. I realize that he is a 'zone favorite, but there is a reason the Giants made NO EFFORT to retain him as their THIRD receiver. His route running is a bit sloppy and he has questionable smarts. Now that he's coming of an injury, who knows how much more he's lost. Time to give his spot to a promising newcomer, perhaps.

• Apart from Crab and Anquan, like it or not, Kyle is the ONLY proven WR amongst that group (excluding Mario who is on PUP). Do I think Kyle is the best WR in the world ? No. But, if the rest of that group were ready, we would have played them more last season.
• Do I think the 9ers have done a great job in improving the receiving corps ? I would say apart from that very lucky trade for Anquan, so far it really has been pretty much just so so if I am being honest.
• Do I think AJ is a bust ? I don't know that for a fact. All I will say is so far the signs have been far from positive. Not every single rookie WR in this league has the luxury to sit out for most of their first season. And yet AJ had almost a season to learn the play book and practise before his debut. But, guess what ? Didin't even know where to line up on the field as shown in the Cards game plus dropping his only pass.
• But, I did give AJ the benefit of the doubt that Quinton might not be ready, that was why I said either way it was between him and Quinton who would make the roster.
• As for Ricardo, if you want to talk measurables, he is marginally faster than AJ at the 40. He is taller at 6'2" and perhaps more importantly far more muscular and better built at 211 lbs. Plus, at least when he was with the Seahawks, he had caught long passes of over 40 yards plus scoring a TD. These are facts and not just because Harbaugh said something or he practised with Kaep.
• As for Mario, he is without a question one of the best wideouts in the receiving corp. I don't care what the Giants thought of him or whether they made any effort in keeping him cos is irrelevant. Anquan was even traded away by the Ravens, does it mean he is crap ? Absolutely NOT !! How will he be when he finally comes back from the injury ? I couldn't tell you cos I can't read the future.

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Dixon does give us good play on special teams, and is a "decent" short yardage back , but decent aint gonna cut it on this team ...but I think he is a goner once Lattimore is ready to pound the rock, which might be sooner than we think ...plus with the addition of Skuta and Dahl , Dixons play on special teams wont be missed , if Dix was a consistent battering ram, his role on the team wouldnt be questioned , but if he was to stay on the team, it will be due to an injury to one of our backs in pre-season , Hunter, James and Lattimore all have upsides left and need touches to grow with the offense , Dixon would only slow the development of those 3 RB's ...let Dix go to a team that will give him some touches ..Swing a trade with Detroit maybe?? a 7th ??

I have to keep him there for this season at least cos Lattimore will not be ready. There is just no way we will play him this season. The guy is not just coming back from an ACL, he tore 3 ligaments in total. If he is really the heir apparent to Frank, he will be a huge investment and there is no way Harbaugh will play him prematurely to risk anything until he is sure he is 100%.

Originally posted by 5280High:
After the first 22 starters, I think people will be pretty surprised at who the FO keeps. If they didnt feel that players like Tuku, Dobbs, Celek, etc were upgradable they wouldnt have drafted 10 players.

My thinking too. If you did'nt start, lookout.

Frankly I can't get through half the positions, let alone feel comfy with a 53. This is like a mock draft or ncaa bracket. Good luck getting all correct.

Originally posted by paulk205:
Guess the 46 is the best way to go about this. The last 7 are basically a developmental stash for redshirted players that are too risky to expose to the PS. And don't forget the needs of the STs.

My early guess for the 46, assuming Tank not suiting in the early part of the season, Lattimore in IR/PUP, Manningham available health-wise and no major surprises in TC (there are always surprises, but by definition you can't predict them )

Kicking team: the three usual suspects

Offense: 22

OL (7): Boone, Iupati, Looney, Staley, Davis, Snyder, Kilgore. I think Goodwin is a cap casualty unless he takes a pay cut.

QB (3): CK, McCoy, Daniels if he can help in ST, otherwise Tolzien and Daniels to the PS.

RB (5/4): Gire, Hunter, LMJ, Miller, [Dixon (ST)]

TE (3): VD, McDonald, Celek

WR (4/5): Crabtree, Boldin, Williams (ST), Jenkins/Manningham (if Manningham doesn't beat Jenkins by a big margin I see him cut), [Moore (ST)].

Re: Dixon/Moore. I can see us carrying 4 RBs and 5 WR if the 5th receiver is more of a help in STs. If someone like that emerges, then it's curtains for Dixon.

Defense: 21

DL (5/4): Dorsey, Justin, RayMac, Ian (if he can't get in the 46 regularly this year he's not worth keeping) [+ 1 more from the rest depending on scheme]. I can see Dial in the 53 but not suiting up and one of the Dobbs/Tukuafu brigade suiting up instead, but that really will depend on the camp showings.

LB (7/8): Aldon, Brooks, Haralson, [Lemonier], Willis, Bowman, Moody (primarily ST), Skuta (ST). If Haralson gets beat in TC by Lemonier he could be in trouble. Alternatively we can carry both and keep 4 linemen.

DB (9): Rogers, Brown, Cully, Nnamdi (I assume he shows enough in TC), Spillman (ST), Whitner, Reid, Dahl. There needs to be one more STeamer here (eg. McBath or Brock) and that's a TC battle. My early money is on Brock. I don't see Cox making it unless he lights it up in TC, in which case it would be the end for Nnamdi probably.

That makes it 6 or 7 ST specialists (+3 in the kicking team). Predicting the ST squad particularly after last year's poor showing is tough at this stage.

The 7 man stash is just made for people like Tank, Dial, Patton, Lemonier (if he gets beat by Haralson), a couple of DBs drafted in the last couple of years, and the odd crazy prospect that is not safe to expose to the PS (e.g. Okoye if he pans out). Plus of course room for non-IR injuries

I think some how Patton is active on game days, and I think Kyle is in trouble. Hoping someone can take his spot, not needed IMO. We can do better at Return game, maybe Marlon Moore, he can return punts and kicks. Cox maybe. Will be a fun offseason and TC, can't wait.

Originally posted by GORO:
I think Kyle Williams makes the team and is active on game day over Ricardo Lockette.

Okoye will be placed on Practice squad unless he proves in preseason games to be a quick learner and unblock able at times.

Lockette will return to practice squad once Manningham returns, A.J. Jenkins will have a shot to steal the 3rd receiver job away while he is out.

We will not keep a back up full back, Mcdonald may get work as FB or CELEK.

Kilgore is the back up at center with Looney being the back up for both guards. Adam Snyder will probably make the team but like you I hope a younger tackle with potential makes it instead.

Yeah I left off Dixon because I think he's a gonner. The extra FB, Jason Schepler( FB/TE/ST ), I basically put in for the role Dixon had with the added benefit of playing inline TE on the Jumbo packages. If he can truly line up in the backfield this summer and put people on their asses while on the move, I think someone like that could be more beneficial to our team than Dixon. Only time will tell if he can play close to what Dixon did on STs.

Lets all be honest too, if its 4th and 1 in the SB or NFC champ game or playoff game or Seahawk game...or pretty much any game, would you rather Dixon get the ball or Gore? With Hunter back and LMJ another year stronger, I think Gore will see much less carries this year. Im all for keeping him fresh and leaving him in for short yard situations. Bigger doesn't = better in those spots. Dixon is so overrated by 9ers fans, Im done with that dude. If the 9ers really want a 4th RB active on gamedays ( not sure why ), Id rather give Hampton a shot.

As far a KW, I don't mean to bash the guy, I've been on his side from jump street, but he needs to show something above and beyond this summer. I don't think Ricardo is going to last on the PS again this year. Dont you think a team like the Jets would grab him on their 53? If he makes the same amount of plays as KW this summer and LMJ shows he can return punts, Id rather gamble on Lockettes upside than KW's risk. Now if KW starts blowing people away in camp, I reserve the right to jump on the bandwagon, but I highly doubt we get so lucky. The key of him making this roster is the PR, that's the wildcard with all of this.

Looney, I thought the same, but Barrows listed him as a C for some reason. The pics Ive seen had Kilgore playing C, but maybe Looney is being groomed? Guess we'll see

Originally posted by Rascal:

• Apart from Crab and Anquan, like it or not, Kyle is the ONLY proven WR amongst that group (excluding Mario who is on PUP). Do I think Kyle is the best WR in the world ? No. But, if the rest of that group were ready, we would have played them more last season.
• Do I think the 9ers have done a great job in improving the receiving corps ? I would say apart from that very lucky trade for Anquan, so far it really has been pretty much just so so if I am being honest.
• Do I think AJ is a bust ? I don't know that for a fact. All I will say is so far the signs have been far from positive. Not every single rookie WR in this league has the luxury to sit out for most of their first season. And yet AJ had almost a season to learn the play book and practise before his debut. But, guess what ? Didin't even know where to line up on the field as shown in the Cards game plus dropping his only pass.
• But, I did give AJ the benefit of the doubt that Quinton might not be ready, that was why I said either way it was between him and Quinton who would make the roster.
• As for Ricardo, if you want to talk measurables, he is marginally faster than AJ at the 40. He is taller at 6'2" and perhaps more importantly far more muscular and better built at 211 lbs. Plus, at least when he was with the Seahawks, he had caught long passes of over 40 yards plus scoring a TD. These are facts and not just because Harbaugh said something or he practised with Kaep.
• As for Mario, he is without a question one of the best wideouts in the receiving corp. I don't care what the Giants thought of him or whether they made any effort in keeping him cos is irrelevant. Anquan was even traded away by the Ravens, does it mean he is crap ? Absolutely NOT !! How will he be when he finally comes back from the injury ? I couldn't tell you cos I can't read the future.

Kyle has 35 career catches, one horrific fumble and a torn knee, what exactly did he prove?

Manningham tore two ligaments late in the year and probably wont be 100% until 2014. Mario and Kyle both rely on cuts to make up for their lack of top end speed.

I feel pretty comfortable with the FO's approach to give two 6 foot + WR's who run sub 4.4 forty's a chance this summer to win the #3 spot...AKA...4th receiving option in our offense.

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I think some how Patton is active on game days, and I think Kyle is in trouble. Hoping someone can take his spot, not needed IMO. We can do better at Return game, maybe Marlon Moore, he can return punts and kicks. Cox maybe. Will be a fun offseason and TC, can't wait.

Totally agree, KW has returned 9 punts in his career. I think they are all on a level playing field this summer, should be great competition, may the best man win!!

QB's: I really don't see Tolzien making it this season. B.J. has far more upside and value. With Tolzien in our offense will have to change. McCoy and B.J. run our Pistol and Read-option.

OT: I think Carter Bykowski could give Kenny Wiggins a real challenge. Bykowski could be a steal.

ILB: I feel you about Moody, but I have a hunch that JH & Co. are give Fleming some looks at ILB to bring come real competition tot the back-up ILB spot. Plus, I think Moody id primarily gonna be a SP guy.In any event, I agree, we won't be able to hide Fleming on the PS, which is why I feel we find a way to keep him.

OG & C: I doubt seriously that Looney will play C over Kilgore, so you can flip those two.

DE: Quinton Dial is a DT. I don't see him playing anything outside of the 4 technique. Although he can play the 5 or even the 6 tech. we don't need him to, at least not on a consistent basis. He's gonna be a gap filling block eating run stuffer, primarily used on the interior of our D-line. He could very well push Ian Williams off the roster.

CB: I know it's early, but I think Brock and Cox are in real jeopardy. I see Marcus Cooper making the 46 he's an absolute steal. Also, don't sleep on Lowell Rose, another physical CB who, if given some reps, is really gonna make a case for a roster spot. I see this position (and safety) to have the most turnaround of rookies for backup vets.

Originally posted by Rascal:
So, you've cut Kyle Williams and Anthony Dixon ??!!

And Adam Snyder??