Whose the better player, Willis or Bowman?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:

Originally posted by matthewabbit:
navorro is looking as good as he is because of patrick willis. because williscovers so much ground bowman is able to play at the level he is. the fact that willis isnt asked to do as much tackling is a good thing. it will prolong his career . maybe Pwillie has lost a half step from when he came in the league and was running down WRs but he is just being asked to do different things now.

Annoying how everybody gives Willis all the credit for Bowman's production. Willis didn't lose a step, Bowman simply responds quicker when the ball is snapped. Put it this way, Willis would not of had to chase down that WR vs. the Cardinals had Bowman been there because Bowman would've had him wrapped up already.

Absolutely impossible for you to know this, making it a ridiculous statement. They have different responsibilities. Willis assignments benefit from his experience and savvy. Covering downhill on a RB is MUCH easier than running the seam with a TE. Blocking schemes account for Willis much more than they do for Bowman. If you don't believe me, watch how early OLs bail on their double teams to get out on Willis. They don't do that for Bow. Bowman is very good, and I am glad we have him. Comparing him to Willis is for casual fans, idiot comentators and people who have never had to scheme for a defense before.

Know this, I'm psychic...sarcastic but of course it's impossible to know what would actually happen. It's simply an exaggerated statement praising Bowman's reflexes. I'm not a casual fan, commentators are biased idiots, which is why I prefer to listen to Eric Davis and Ted Robinson on the radio when I watch live games. I really need to get a life because I have way too much time on my hands. I record and watch everygame win, lose, or tie and the difference between Bowman and Willis reading and reacting to a WR's screen is eye popping. If Bowman and Willis were to play a game of slaps. the 49er blood would totally come out visually, on the back of his hands. I absolutely know this because I know everything lol

Anyone with a brain knows that Willis is schemed against, as Bowman's legacy grows, he will be too. Then Willis's production should increase (not that he's NOT being productive now). Also, Willis has more coverage responsibilites. When was the last time you saw Bowman match up 1 on 1 with anyone?

That being said, they are both too talented to differentiate and rank. But Willis is more of a leader so I'd give him the edge.

Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:

Originally posted by BayArea:

Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by wysiwyg:
It's like asking a mother which child she loves better

not really. What's love got to do, got to do with it?

It's more like asking which Manning is better, Peyton or Eli?

Both easy. Peyton, and Patrick easily.

Doesn't Eli have more Superbowl rings?
Patrick may be but not easily

Means nothing. Trent Dilfer and Doug Williams have more rings than Marino and Jim Kelly. Dilfer and Williams sucked, Marino and Kelly are in the hall of fame.

True, rings aren't everything. I understand its the ultimate team sport, but Eli knows how to handle pressure, CLUTCH by far the most important trait. Peyton has choked in the post season frequently. Now this probably was coaches decision but still, but did you see him take a knee with the game tied, 30 secs to go, vs. the ravens to go straight to OT, then eventually throw the pick? Matt Ryan beat the Seahawks given that exact same scenario. All they needed was a fg....

Trent Dilfer sucked but Doug Williams went through some adversity because his skin and is still the first and only black QB to get a ring.

IMO Tom Brady is no better than Jim Kelly or Marino, one of them just had a CLUTCH kicker and a coach that cheated.

Yeah Peyton has choked. But look at his team. Has Peyton ever had help around him other than his elite arm and ability to call the right play (on his own)? Eli had two of the most elite teams of all time on both of his rides (with some luck sprinkled in). Peyton won one with ?????????. Has Peyton ever had a defense even approaching the ones Eli had? f**k no not even close. You see what the Colt's did without Peyton, yeah 2-14.

Clutch had nothing to do with Eli but everything to do with Eli's elite defenses being able to stifle Brady's clutch gene. Brady really got 0 help in that department. So what happens when you have 0 defense and you are going up against top defenses in the superbowl even if you are one of the best QBs of all time? Yeah, you narrowly lose a few superbowls.

I swear Peyton faces the same scrutiny that Andrew Luck faces. When you still make the playoffs besides a turd of a team around you then you have to take s**t for it?

Originally posted by iLL49er:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by iLL49er:
bowman has the explosiveness that willis used to have which is great to dominate in the box close to the line of scrimmage

willis can cover TE's pretty deep in the back field. bowman is never asked to do that.

glad we have both

used to have? why do people think willis slowed down? he still looks like the same old willis to me. dude is a beast. i still think hes our best player

i recall a quote in the off-season where willis admitted he's not as fast as he used to be but he's got more knowledge of the game to maek up for it

i dont think he got out ran by many people out there this year. prolly being modest lol

BOWMAN

Bowman because he makes more tackles and also can cover better.

Originally posted by spizzy:
Anyone with a brain knows that Willis is schemed against, as Bowman's legacy grows, he will be too. Then Willis's production should increase (not that he's NOT being productive now). Also, Willis has more coverage responsibilites. When was the last time you saw Bowman match up 1 on 1 with anyone?

That being said, they are both too talented to differentiate and rank. But Willis is more of a leader so I'd give him the edge.

The leader of a defense is the MIKE LB. He leads the other 10 to play their part when he relays the play call from Lord Fangio

PDUB

Originally posted by BillRing2:
Bowman because he makes more tackles and also can cover better.

lol that's because they wouldn't dare run at willis. And he's always going to have a guard game planned to block him out. Without willis bowman wouldn't be as good looking he's freed up to make those tackles because of willis. I will agree bowman is better in coverage but willis is the one who gets him in the spot, and willis is the one who covers the tightends which are taller and bowman gets the running backs more often.

Well, first off... who cares? We've got them both.

But to take on your question, I want to say that Patrick is the more physically gifted of the two, while Navorro seems a bit more instinctive and has better lateral movement.

It's silly to think that Navorro is better than Patrick because he gets more tackles. Maybe it's the scheme that allows Navorro to get more tackles? Maybe offenses purposely run away from Patrick Willis? Is Darrell Revis not as good as the other cornerback if he only catches one interception, while the other guy catches seven?

Quite honestly though. I want to say Patrick is better, but I don't really have any exact reason why. To me, he just strikes me as having better intangibles. It feels like he forces turnovers and bad offensive plays more than Navorro does, but I'm not sure if that's true. You'd have to ask actual coaches, who really understand the game and what the two are doing within their schemes to really understand who's better.

I wanted to start my own thread on this, but since I'm supposedly a noob, it wont let me.

I know this forum is pretty split between who's the best LB on the Niners roster (Willis vs Bowman), but after rewatching the season I've come to a conclusion. Bowman is a better coverage LB, but Willis is a better tackler. If you watch the film, though Bowman doesn't cover as much as Willis, when he does, he rarely has a pass completed on him. Willis on the other hand gets passed on, but he makes the immediate tackle. The other thing that is very obvious to me is that Willis is a stronger more aggressive and sure tackler than Bowman. I've seen Bowman miss tackles, but I can't say the same for Willis. Bowman is good, but he does occassionally let guys get around him. Dont get me wrong, its not like he's getting burned all the time, but if Willis has a 99.8 percent tackle rate, Bowman might be a 99. The difference in tackle quality is about as much as the difference in coverage quality between Willis and Bowman. So here is my question. Wouldn't it make sense to have them flip assigniments? Bowman should be keying on the TE and zone coverage, while Willis should focus on whoever comes out of the backfield. If we did that, I think our defense would be even better.

who cares

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by BillRing2:

Bowman because he makes more tackles and also can cover better.

lol that's because they wouldn't dare run at willis. And he's always going to have a guard game planned to block him out. Without willis bowman wouldn't be as good looking he's freed up to make those tackles because of willis. I will agree bowman is better in coverage but willis is the one who gets him in the spot, and willis is the one who covers the tightends which are taller and bowman gets the running backs more often.

no

Originally posted by TheGhostofOak:
I wanted to start my own thread on this, but since I'm supposedly a noob, it wont let me.

I know this forum is pretty split between who's the best LB on the Niners roster (Willis vs Bowman), but after rewatching the season I've come to a conclusion. Bowman is a better coverage LB, but Willis is a better tackler. If you watch the film, though Bowman doesn't cover as much as Willis, when he does, he rarely has a pass completed on him. Willis on the other hand gets passed on, but he makes the immediate tackle. The other thing that is very obvious to me is that Willis is a stronger more aggressive and sure tackler than Bowman. I've seen Bowman miss tackles, but I can't say the same for Willis. Bowman is good, but he does occassionally let guys get around him. Dont get me wrong, its not like he's getting burned all the time, but if Willis has a 99.8 percent tackle rate, Bowman might be a 99. The difference in tackle quality is about as much as the difference in coverage quality between Willis and Bowman. So here is my question. Wouldn't it make sense to have them flip assigniments? Bowman should be keying on the TE and zone coverage, while Willis should focus on whoever comes out of the backfield. If we did that, I think our defense would be even better.

Anyone with a little knowledge on the subject have an opinion (outside of the "whatever the coaches think")?

Good god will this offseason ever end!