There are 527 users in the forums
Originally posted by hofer36:
so when the nines beat the bills this year you were saying wow that fitzpatrick sure is better than the niners qb? this does put your opinionas in perspective
Originally posted by hofer36:so when the nines beat the bills this year you were saying wow that fitzpatrick sure is better than the niners qb? this does put your opinionas in perspective
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by hofer36:
so when the nines beat the bills this year you were saying wow that fitzpatrick sure is better than the niners qb? this does put your opinionas in perspective
you have seen Smith on a bad team...he can suck as much as any QB I have seen.
Smith is more reliant on the system and players around him them most QBs with top 10 production.
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Was he injured in the Vikings game? Please don't blame his play on injuries. We don't do it for other QB's. You really think that pick in the Seattle game was due to his finger? What about those terrible reads in the Giants games? C'mon man. Fact is he had 4 good games and 4 poor ones.
As for last year, he had no one to throw to? He had the same guys Colin has had to throw to. How is Crabtree, Vernon, Delanie, Hunter and Gore out of the backfield along with Kyle "no one"? I really can't take your assessments seriously now.
I don't quite understand how getting to the NFCCG has anything to do with average play during the season. QBs have won Super Bowls with average play.
Anyways, the lack of yardage, poor redzone conversion, poor 3rd down conversion, low TD/game % was in short pretty average play. He had a few good games and was clutch against the Saints after 5 turnovers.
Alex is a solid QB, Colin is currently better.
All of this means nothing anyways. Alex will go to another team and we will all see just how amazing he is. Best of luck to him.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Jaguars - Will give you this one.
Bills - Fitzpatrick is better than Smith IMO and probably in most people's...but this one could be arguable.
Dolphins - They have a potential QBof the future if Tannehill steps up next year. If you watched Miami games, you'd know he had a lot of ups and downs on a team with mediocre talent. I'd take him over Alex Smith for their situation.
Jets - Will give you this one.
Browns - You can't say he's definitely better than Weeden given their circumstances, but I'll give you this one as well.
Titans - Again, you can't say AS is better than Jake Locker given their circumstances. In this case, I'd take Locker over AS so I won't give you this one.
Chiefs - Alex Smith = Matt Cassel
Raiders - Will give you this one, but Palmer clearly has more physical tools (even now).
Bucs - Are you kidding me? Josh Freeman is much better than AS. I don't care what the QB rating says.
Cardinals - Will give you this one, but Kolb could be better next year.
Rams - Bradford > Smith, IMO. Similar players but I'd take Bradford.
Ravens - WTF. No.
Bengals - Again, no. Dalton is so much further along than AS and he's a 2nd year player.
Steelers - Just stop.
Texans - I'm not a Schaub fan at all, but AS isn't better than him and you certainly wouldn't start AS over Schaub.
Cowboys - Romo is 3x the QB Alex is. Nobody in their right mind would take AS over Romo.
Bears - Cutler is so mistake prone that this isn't as much of a blowout in his favor than you might think. Still Cutler > AS on any team I'm starting.
Lions - Stafford had an off year. Still almost threw for 5K. He's better than AS and that's not even arguable. Just has to cut down the mistakes and needs a better cast.
Panthers - Cam is better. Again, closer than it seems. Cam has a better arm and is clearly the better runner. With a bit more seasoning, he's a top 7 QB.
Originally posted by dtcomposer:This post is full of incredibly interesting takes. My thoughts:
I live in NY and regularly watch Bills games. Fitzpatrick has one of the weakest arms in the NFL. He makes horrible decisions regularly. He literally can't throw the ball more than 40 yards in the air. Alex Smith is so much better than this guy statistically and otherwise. This is a laughable assertion by you.
Locker is HORRIBLE. If you think Alex Smith has no pocket presence and no accuracy what can you possibly see in Jake Locker? He is a one read QB at this time, and his future is murky. He has poor accuracy and timing as well. He could improve but to say you would rather take him? Based on what?
Matt Cassell = Alex Smith is another ridiculous comparison. Cassels highest completion percentage is nearly 7 points worse than Smith's this season, and his average is more than 10% lower. His YPA are lower even with that lower percentage. In short: Cassel's best years are not as good as Alex, and is trending down for the last 2 seasons. At the very least these two QB's are very different in how they attack. Alex is much more efficient, and trending up the last 4 years.
Josh Freeman - Again you must not be watching many of these games. Freeman is wildly inconsistent, and make some of the dumbest plays regularly. He has some physical ability, but his future on that team is anything but solid. He is in the mid to low 50's for completion percentage. That is like 15% lower than Alex. He definitely had a bouncback year this year, but still only managed an 81 rating... which when Alex did it for 2 years in a row he was crucified for.
Kolb- LOL - Any QB could be better next year than any other. That is almost a pointless argument. Kolb has shown nothing to warrant being better than Smith. Though I will give you that his line situation has been horrible.
Bradford - Again he has shown nothing other than A superior rookie year to Smith's rookie year that warrants him being a better player. Sorry the evidence just isn't there. Maybe he keeps improving next season and has a great year, but he could just as easily have another step back.
These ones I think are more reasonable -
Dalton - They aren't going to trade him, and he is a good young player. He hasn't played better than Alex though. Just because a team wouldn't make the trade doesn't mean Alex isn't playing at a higher level. Many of the guys you prefer are in this situation. You seem to put a ton of stock on hype, though I think Dalton is solid already, and getting better.
Shaub/Romo - Shaub and Alex are pretty similar. If you gave Alex those weapons and that running game he wold... oh wait he basically outplayed Shaub with a similar team. I like Shaub as a player, but Alex is definitely comparable. Romo makes idiotic plays, but I agree he is asked to do more than Alex. Still, if you put Alex on the Cowboys they might actually be a better team. Romo giveth and he taketh away.
Cutler - this gets to the heart of your post. You will basically take any QB with a pulse over Smith regardless quantitative evidence. It is almost comical how many times you state the obvious case for smith, and then say " but I still take QB X".That being said, Cutler has more arm talent than Smith, but his production has not been as good.
Stafford - I think Stafford is better than Alex at some things. To say he needs a better surrounding cast? Really? He has great offensive playmakers. He throws a ton of short passes, and just a ton of passes in general which is why he has so many yards. His games are anything but effective . You are mesmerized by 5000 yards but his yards are some of the most meaningless I have ever seen. Especially this season.
Cam - Cam wasn't better this season or last season. He has upside. I could see most teams taking Cam based on upside, but not on current production or performance.
Anyway, thanks for the chuckles.
Originally posted by Jakemall:Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:Was he injured in the Vikings game? Please don't blame his play on injuries. We don't do it for other QB's. You really think that pick in the Seattle game was due to his finger? What about those terrible reads in the Giants games? C'mon man. Fact is he had 4 good games and 4 poor ones.
As for last year, he had no one to throw to? He had the same guys Colin has had to throw to. How is Crabtree, Vernon, Delanie, Hunter and Gore out of the backfield along with Kyle "no one"? I really can't take your assessments seriously now.
I don't quite understand how getting to the NFCCG has anything to do with average play during the season. QBs have won Super Bowls with average play.
Anyways, the lack of yardage, poor redzone conversion, poor 3rd down conversion, low TD/game % was in short pretty average play. He had a few good games and was clutch against the Saints after 5 turnovers.
Alex is a solid QB, Colin is currently better.
All of this means nothing anyways. Alex will go to another team and we will all see just how amazing he is. Best of luck to him.
I said 1 or two games aside...no excuse for the vikings game...but as I recall the whole team came out flat on that one...not just Alex. You point to redzone....you might want to take a look at that before you make that an argument for Kaep. As for his "bad games" you should take a look at the average qbr for qbs against those teams...again I stand by my comment. Guys to throw to...you mean swain and what's his name who are no longer in the nfl? Yes he had 2 of his 5 starters. Delanie was wired up and not playing well..so he had basically Crabs and Davis double covered and Kyle who was JUST STARTING to show something that season. And that's completely ignoring the fact that Crabtree really started showing who he was this year (even before Kaep came in)..nevermind Moss, right? Hunter had not really broken out like he has this year...and GORE was no where near 100%... again stringing partial facts to support your preconceived view. It's fine..at the end of the day you're right..Alex is likely gone and this conversation is moot.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Was he injured in the Vikings game? Please don't blame his play on injuries. We don't do it for other QB's. You really think that pick in the Seattle game was due to his finger? What about those terrible reads in the Giants games? C'mon man. Fact is he had 4 good games and 4 poor ones.
As for last year, he had no one to throw to? He had the same guys Colin has had to throw to. How is Crabtree, Vernon, Delanie, Hunter and Gore out of the backfield along with Kyle "no one"? I really can't take your assessments seriously now.
I don't quite understand how getting to the NFCCG has anything to do with average play during the season. QBs have won Super Bowls with average play.
Anyways, the lack of yardage, poor redzone conversion, poor 3rd down conversion, low TD/game % was in short pretty average play. He had a few good games and was clutch against the Saints after 5 turnovers.
Alex is a solid QB, Colin is currently better.
All of this means nothing anyways. Alex will go to another team and we will all see just how amazing he is. Best of luck to him.
I said 1 or two games aside...no excuse for the vikings game...but as I recall the whole team came out flat on that one...not just Alex. You point to redzone....you might want to take a look at that before you make that an argument for Kaep. As for his "bad games" you should take a look at the average qbr for qbs against those teams...again I stand by my comment. Guys to throw to...you mean swain and what's his name who are no longer in the nfl? Yes he had 2 of his 5 starters. Delanie was wired up and not playing well..so he had basically Crabs and Davis double covered and Kyle who was JUST STARTING to show something that season. And that's completely ignoring the fact that Crabtree really started showing who he was this year (even before Kaep came in)..nevermind Moss, right? Hunter had not really broken out like he has this year...and GORE was no where near 100%... again stringing partial facts to support your preconceived view. It's fine..at the end of the day you're right..Alex is likely gone and this conversation is moot.
I just laugh whenever someone tries to say that Kaep is playing with basically the same depleted offense that Alex had last year....
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Matt Cassell as poor as you say he is had a 27TD 7INT season. Smith has never produced anything near that.
Freeman is inconsistent as is Smith. Freeman has thrown for 27TDs and 4000+ yards. All Smith has on either guy is completion %. It all depends on what you value more. Scoring points and moving the ball or being efficient at completing short passes.
Alex on the Cowboys would have a very tough time behind that line this year. It was downright terrible. Despite that, Romo has 5 4th quarter comebacks this year and 12 in his last 3 seasons. So, he's obviously clutch, right?
Schaub and Smith are similar. Schaub probably has one more year to get it done or he'll be replaced. Daulton is also a good comparable.
Bradford has literally no one to throw to. I don't think he's good, but if we were to put Smith on that roster, would there be much of an improvement? I personally don't think so.
Stafford is asked to do MORE. He throws that many passes because he has to. They have no running game and a poor defense. You'd be amazed at what a QB looks like when he has no running game or defense to rely on. You say he throws a lot of short passes and say his yards are meaningless but don't say the same for Smith who lives and dies off of completing short passes. I personally think Stafford is overrated but I still think he is better than Smith.
This is all opinion of course. The debate will only be settled once Smith is on a new team for at least 2 years as he has had the best situation out of any QB ever since Harbaugh arrived.
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Matt Cassell as poor as you say he is had a 27TD 7INT season. Smith has never produced anything near that.
Freeman is inconsistent as is Smith. Freeman has thrown for 27TDs and 4000+ yards. All Smith has on either guy is completion %. It all depends on what you value more. Scoring points and moving the ball or being efficient at completing short passes.
Alex on the Cowboys would have a very tough time behind that line this year. It was downright terrible. Despite that, Romo has 5 4th quarter comebacks this year and 12 in his last 3 seasons. So, he's obviously clutch, right?
Schaub and Smith are similar. Schaub probably has one more year to get it done or he'll be replaced. Daulton is also a good comparable.
Bradford has literally no one to throw to. I don't think he's good, but if we were to put Smith on that roster, would there be much of an improvement? I personally don't think so.
Stafford is asked to do MORE. He throws that many passes because he has to. They have no running game and a poor defense. You'd be amazed at what a QB looks like when he has no running game or defense to rely on. You say he throws a lot of short passes and say his yards are meaningless but don't say the same for Smith who lives and dies off of completing short passes. I personally think Stafford is overrated but I still think he is better than Smith.
This is all opinion of course. The debate will only be settled once Smith is on a new team for at least 2 years as he has had the best situation out of any QB ever since Harbaugh arrived.
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
This post is full of incredibly interesting takes. My thoughts:
I live in NY and regularly watch Bills games. Fitzpatrick has one of the weakest arms in the NFL. He makes horrible decisions regularly. He literally can't throw the ball more than 40 yards in the air. Alex Smith is so much better than this guy statistically and otherwise. This is a laughable assertion by you.
Locker is HORRIBLE. If you think Alex Smith has no pocket presence and no accuracy what can you possibly see in Jake Locker? He is a one read QB at this time, and his future is murky. He has poor accuracy and timing as well. He could improve but to say you would rather take him? Based on what?
Matt Cassell = Alex Smith is another interesting comparison. Cassels highest completion percentage is nearly 7 points worse than Smith's this season, and his average is more than 10% lower. His YPA are lower even with that lower percentage. In short: Cassel's best years are not as good as Alex, and is trending down for the last 2 seasons. At the very least these two QB's are very different in how they attack. Alex is much more efficient, and trending up the last 4 years.
Josh Freeman - Freeman is wildly inconsistent, and make some of the dumbest plays regularly. He has some physical ability, but his future on that team is anything but solid. He is in the mid to low 50's for completion percentage. That is like 15% lower than Alex. He definitely had a bouncback year this year, but still only managed an 81 rating... which when Alex did it for 2 years in a row he was crucified for.
Kolb- LOL - Any QB could be better next year than any other. That is almost a pointless argument. Kolb has shown nothing to warrant being better than Smith. Though I will give you that his line situation has been horrible.
Bradford - He has shown nothing other than A superior rookie year to Smith's rookie year that warrants him being a better player. Sorry the evidence just isn't there. Maybe he keeps improving next season and has a great year, but he could just as easily have another step back.
These ones I think are more reasonable -
Dalton - They aren't going to trade him, and he is a good young player. He hasn't played better than Alex though. Just because a team wouldn't make the trade doesn't mean Alex isn't playing at a higher level. Many of the guys you prefer are in this situation. You seem to put a ton of stock on hype, though I think Dalton is solid already, and getting better.
Shaub/Romo - Shaub and Alex are pretty similar. If you gave Alex those weapons and that running game he wold... oh wait he basically outplayed Shaub with a similar team. I like Shaub as a player, but Alex is definitely comparable. Romo makes idiotic plays, but I agree he is asked to do more than Alex. Still, if you put Alex on the Cowboys they might actually be a better team. Romo giveth and he taketh away.
Cutler - this gets to the heart of your post. Cutler has more arm talent than Smith, but his production has not been as good.
Stafford - I think Stafford is better than Alex at some things. To say he needs a better surrounding cast? Really? He has great offensive playmakers. He throws a ton of short passes, and just a ton of passes in general which is why he has so many yards. His games are anything but effective . You are mesmerized by 5000 yards but his yards are some of the most meaningless I have ever seen. Especially this season.
Cam - Cam wasn't better this season or last season. He has upside. I could see most teams taking Cam based on upside, but not on current production or performance.
Anyway, thanks for the chuckles.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
I just laugh whenever someone tries to say that Kaep is playing with basically the same depleted offense that Alex had last year....
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
I agree with some of what you said. You are kind of cherry picking certain stats from 3 years ago with Cassel, and I was just saying that Stafford throws short more like Alex but just throws tons more passes. Meaningless yards are yards trying to come back from 3 scores down when the game is basically over. I bet over 1000 yards from Stafford were of that variety last season if not more. Still I think (not sure, but think) he is a better QB than Alex.
Like I said I have a pretty high opinion of Romo, but he just crushes your team with huge negative plays. In some ways he is right up there with Brady, Brees, Rodgers etc.
One of my friends is a huge Rams fan, so I follow them a bit. He does have some weapons, and he is getting better. I'll reserve judgement until this season with Sam, but as of right now Alex is better.
Again you equate a ton to total yards and TD passes. I think TD passes can be an important stat with the correct context, but passing yards with lots of attempts doesn't say much as far as I'm concerned. As always I think some of you guys underestimate Smith and nitpick because you saw all his snaps every week. Outside of 5-10 QB's there aren't any that I would decisively take over Alex at this point, with another 7-8 that I could argue teams would keep over signing him because of situation/age. I agree that we will know more if Alex gets traded. I hope he gets traded to a somewhat functional offensive team that wants him to throw more. He needs a precision passing offense like NE to be his most effective IMO, but could probably be good in most systems.
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
I just laugh whenever someone tries to say that Kaep is playing with basically the same depleted offense that Alex had last year....
And I laugh at the excuses made at every turn for Smith by some people here. The only additions are Moss and LMJ. The subtractions are Hunter and Kyle. I know this is a Smith thread, but his contributions and adversity seems to always be overstated by the same people. He played like crap against several teams, period. Like, why is that even being debated?