POLL : Is Michael Crabtree a bust?

Originally posted by DirtyP:
Vernon Davis and Frank Gore are two of the best players in the NFL at their positions and Vernon Davis didn't put together a dominant game statistically until his 4th year with the team.

Crabs best games

@ STL 7 receptions 88 yards 2 tds

@ Ariz 7 receptions 120 yards

@STL (2010) 6 receptions 122 yards 1 td

@ Phil (2010) 9 receptions 105 yards 1 td

He's also been one of the best blocking receivers in the NFL through the past 2 seasons

all of this

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Plays like a mid-2nd or 3rd rounder.

YEAH I SAID IT.

Name the "mid 2nd or 3rd rounder" that you are comparing his production too.

Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Plays like a mid-2nd or 3rd rounder.

YEAH I SAID IT.

Name the "mid 2nd or 3rd rounder" that you are comparing his production too.

Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

When your QB averages under 200 yards a game it's a bit difficult to put up big numbers. He can't throw the ball to himself

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Plays like a mid-2nd or 3rd rounder.

YEAH I SAID IT.

Name the "mid 2nd or 3rd rounder" that you are comparing his production too.

Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

Those teams throw more passes. More passes = larger numbers.

This guy is verry talented. With dbl coverage on moss and vd.he should have a break out season if he's healthy. Come on crabs let's break some records.hahaa

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't know if I would call him a bust. But he is clearly not as good as you would want for a #10 overall pick in the draft. He plays more like a 2nd round guy. Not that huge. Certainly not fast or explosive. Never, ever practices or plays in preseason. His first year holdout and arguments for more money rediculous as they were give you some insight into the mindset. Key drops in big games. Playoff games he plays worse and worse as you go (never a good sign).

IMO he shouldn't have even been a 1st rounder. Much less top 10.

I agree, but would say he might have been worth a late, very late, first round pick.

I remember the heated and somewhat surreal webzone debate about his hold out--If I were not so lazy, I would publish a link for that discussion.

edit: Being lazy is not good.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/127663-when-michael-crabtree-signed/page141/search=Crabtree%20hold%20out

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Plays like a mid-2nd or 3rd rounder.

YEAH I SAID IT.

Name the "mid 2nd or 3rd rounder" that you are comparing his production too.

Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

When your QB averages under 200 yards a game it's a bit difficult to put up big numbers. He can't throw the ball to himself

Can Crabs get separation consistently?

Does he have deep-ball speed?

I like Crabs, but I can't sit here and pretend I don't wish he was a more complete player.

He has had some big games And big plays. He needs to be much more consistent to live up to expectations.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

I would not agree that any of those players are better than Crabtree at this stage in their careers other than Mike Wallace, who by the way was drafted by a team with an established offensive system and an elite quarterback. Crabtree has not yet hit his ceiling I don't see how you could argue with that. He is in his 4th year in the NFL and the first in which he was able to train for a full offseason with the rest of his team. Throw in the fact that Jim Harbaugh and his staff are astronomically better offensive coaches than anything he's had since entering the NFL and you get a guy who is due for a breakout year. If he catches 90 balls for 1200 yards this year, which is a completely acheivable season for him, then all of the sudden he becomes worth the 10th overall pick that was used to select him in the first place.

Crabtree struggles with separation in man coverage against above average (not great) above average corners. His route running still needs significant work. He still has not developed great chemistry with his quarterback. These are all fairly correctable.

People keep comparing him to VD (busting out after his 3rd season). Separation was never an issue for VD. Work ethic was never an issue for VD. Speed was never an issue for VD. I don't see the VD comparison as a good one.

But Crab does not produce natural separation either through straight line speed (ala VD) or quick cuts (ala Walker) or powerful use of body to shield the ball (ala Owens).

J.J. Stokes 2.0

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

I would not agree that any of those players are better than Crabtree at this stage in their careers other than Mike Wallace, who by the way was drafted by a team with an established offensive system and an elite quarterback. Crabtree has not yet hit his ceiling I don't see how you could argue with that. He is in his 4th year in the NFL and the first in which he was able to train for a full offseason with the rest of his team. Throw in the fact that Jim Harbaugh and his staff are astronomically better offensive coaches than anything he's had since entering the NFL and you get a guy who is due for a breakout year. If he catches 90 balls for 1200 yards this year, which is a completely acheivable season for him, then all of the sudden he becomes worth the 10th overall pick that was used to select him in the first place.

The day Crabs outplays Jordy Nelson is the day he lives up to being pick #10. Still waiting...

(yes I know Rodgers > Smith, but still)

he doesn't suck, but hasn't lived up to expectations so far..................

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Plays like a mid-2nd or 3rd rounder.

YEAH I SAID IT.

Name the "mid 2nd or 3rd rounder" that you are comparing his production too.

Let's put it this way... you could argue that the following players are comparable and all were taken after the first round.

• Eddie Royal (when healthy)
• Mario Manningham
• Mike Wallace
• Eric Decker
• Torrey Smith

Crab's is just not a top-10 draft pick. Maybe the end of the first round? My opinion...

When your QB averages under 200 yards a game it's a bit difficult to put up big numbers. He can't throw the ball to himself

Can Crabs get separation consistently?

Does he have deep-ball speed?

I like Crabs, but I can't sit here and pretend I don't wish he was a more complete player.

I can say the same thing about the person throwing him the ball.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
The day Crabs outplays Jordy Nelson is the day he lives up to being pick #10. Still waiting...

(yes I know Rodgers > Smith, but still)

Lol. But still? Jordy Nelson is the perfect example of why you can't use stats to determine the value of a player. For starters, Jordy Nelson's QB enjoyed one of the most prolific seasons in the history of the NFL last year. He is also a part of one of the leagues most talented groups of receivers, opposing defenses can't simply double team him and stifle the Packers passing attack. Greg Jennings is the teams #1 receiver, not Jordy Nelson, and he had less yards receiving and touchdowns than his teammate due to the attention defenses gave him. Crabtree's QB threw the ball about 20 times a game last year and the next best receiver on the team was 5'9" tall and only caught 20 passes all season long.

If Michael Crabtree takes the next step in his development as I expect him too then he will be a better player statistically and will continue to be a major contributor to our winning. If that happens then I don't see how you can be unhappy with him as a player. I think people tend to forget how incredibly rare it is for a wide receiver to establish himself as one of the leagues best immediately.