Too much offensive rotation?

Method · 2011-12-12T21:59:52-08:00

On defense, we never rotate our best players. They are on the field for every play. Aldon Smith comes in on 3rd downs because he is a rookie learning the position. So what's the offense's excuse? I think Harbaugh and Roman are overthinking this. I have a feeling they think this is like College where you need to rotate to keep your players from getting tired... but this is the f**king NFL. These guys are elite level athletes. In the NFL, you have your best players out there on every play. Crabtree should be on the field no matter what, he deserves it. The guy blocks like a fanatic and is our best wide out right now. Why is he off the field so often in the red zone? He's not at the level of the elite WR's but they, (Larry F Baby, CJohnson, Andre Johnson, etc.,) NEVER come off the field. Cmon coach. Williams should be the #2 and any deep ball that is in the play book for Ginn should go to Williams. There's no doubt in my mind Williams catches the fade and the deep pass by Alex, and both of those were touchdown passes. This keeps happening. Fix it. Also - our best formation was anything with two TE's. Where has that gone? We need Delanie and VD to be more productive, so make a gameplan around them. What is going on? 3 passes to VD? That's b******t. Tom Brady threw the ball to Gronkowski about 9 or 10 times. We gotta force it his way, because he can make plays. Same with Delanie. C'mon coach!

Dec 12, 2011 at 10:29 PM

jreff22
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agree

we have to keep the key guys on the field, Crabs, Williams, and VD should never leave

Dec 13, 2011 at 12:23 AM

Oakland-Niner
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Nice post, Method. Couldn't agree more.

I sware it feels like they are just toying with the offense.

Dec 13, 2011 at 2:00 PM

lssanjose
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Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Nice post, Method. Couldn't agree more.

I sware it feels like they are just toying with the offense.

I think Roman gets a little too cute with his offense, in the sense he likes trying different things. I think if there was one game they could afford to toy, it MAY have been the cards, but I could be wrong.

Dec 13, 2011 at 3:57 PM

WildBill
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The thing about Walsh was that he had fixed plays in the begining for three reasons, one so that it was harder to be predictable the other was so that the teamhad no confusion as to what needed to be executed next and finally to see how the other side reacts to certain plays. Occassionaly would call something not in the script, but then that was rare and immediately they would go back to the script.

Dec 13, 2011 at 4:11 PM

susweel
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So you think you know more than Harbaugh and Roman ?

Dec 13, 2011 at 4:17 PM

OnTheClock
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Originally posted by susweel:
So you think you know more than Harbaugh and Roman ?

Well he did say, "Why didn't you guys call and tell me?" when he was asked why he didn't throw any screens against Baltimore.

We've basically gone away from our formula. When Davis and Walker were helping us win games (Cincy, Philly, Detroit, Tampa games), our offense seemed like it was more difficult to defend. Now we've taken our mismatches out of the game and are playing into the hands of defenses because the others can't consistently make enough plays. That said, Vernon and Delanie have looked awful in the chances they've had lately.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Dec 13, 2011 at 4:18 PM ]

Dec 13, 2011 at 4:18 PM

HearstFan
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Posts: 1,628

You are probably on to something here. The true and early WC offense kept the base offense on the field for much the same reason. Also, I think it would benefit the play calling being quicker and I would up tempo the offense so that the defense wears down and takes some of their heat off the OL.

On the flip side, some of the rotation is really disguise. I heard some other teams (Ravens) and commentators note that even though there are a lot of personnell groups, shift, and motions, the 49ers offense is really basically running the same plays out of these variations. So without a full offseason to install the scheme, the coaches are trying to mask their simplicity with personnel groups and formations.

By the end of the season, there is enough tape on the 9ers that defenses are prepared.

For example, in the last game, for predictability example. The 49ers ran the quick "fade" throw to Crabtree 3 times -- all to the right side - 0 completions. It's a simple, quick read play. If Crab's has tight man coverage on the outside, Smith makes a quick drop and a mid-range arching throw over the coverage to Crabs. By the 3rd throw, three AZ defenders were closing on the route. They also threw the quick 5 yard out to Crab's on the right side twice when Peterson played man coverage, but off - 2 completions.

Very simple plays. Also dangerous to run too often. The 49ers scheme is just not very sophisticated yet.

Dec 13, 2011 at 4:19 PM

susweel
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by susweel:
So you think you know more than Harbaugh and Roman ?

Well he did say, "Why didn't you guys call and tell me?" when he was asked why he didn't throw any screens against Baltimore.

We've basically gone away from our formula. When Davis and Walker were helping us win games (Cincy, Philly, Detroit, Tampa games), our offense seemed like it was more difficult to defend. Now we've taken our mismatches out of the game and are playing into the hands of defenses because the others can't consistently make enough plays. That said, Vernon and Delanie have looked awful in the chances they've had lately.

I think in recent weeks we have tried to be more of a passing team lately. Also I think the league is starting to catch up to our little tricks, it happens to all new coaches.

Dec 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM

Engleburger
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Originally posted by susweel:
So you think you know more than Harbaugh and Roman ?

Thank you

Dec 13, 2011 at 10:57 PM

#10

Kolohe
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I think what they're doing on offense is the right thing, they're just trying to create mismatches. I think the problem lies in play-calling and not adjusting to what the defense is showing them. After all, each one of our offensive players has contributed to a win through out our 10 win season, they just need to adjust better.

Dec 13, 2011 at 11:55 PM

#11

jdt84_2
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Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think what they're doing on offense is the right thing, they're just trying to create mismatches. I think the problem lies in play-calling and not adjusting to what the defense is showing them. After all, each one of our offensive players has contributed to a win through out our 10 win season, they just need to adjust better.

*note i am just a fan, not a coach but this is an ineternet forum so here i go*

yeah but why in the hell is arguably your best WR and definatly the only one that seems to fight for the ball coming out in short yardage situations? not to mention he is your best blocking WR. the only time crabtree should come out is 3TE 2 RB formations, or when he checks himself out for a breather.

they need to stop these 6 OL fornmations because it does not scare a team from not blitzing, and then bring walker into the backfield in a split back set to help with these A gap blitzes while being a threat to leak out if you bring too many blitzers. the D blitzes 6 or 7 and the niners only send out 2 or 3, it is ridiculous to get a coverage sack on a 0 coverage blitz.

[ Edited by jdt84_2 on Dec 13, 2011 at 11:57 PM ]

Dec 14, 2011 at 7:37 AM

#12

GolittaCamper
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What is this 1955 or something? Should we go one further and play our guys both ways? Look man since the 70's teams have been subbing in personnel groups based on down and distance, we are not the only team who does this relax.

Dec 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM

#13

jdt84_2
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Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
What is this 1955 or something? Should we go one further and play our guys both ways? Look man since the 70's teams have been subbing in personnel groups based on down and distance, we are not the only team who does this relax.

Yeah a lot of teams do it, but how often do you see wes welker on the bench? A brandon Lloyd, dwayne bowe, greg Jennings, jj finley? Let's take out a player who fights for the ball for one who does not then throw a jump ball to him. Re; ted ginn fade.

Dec 14, 2011 at 11:52 AM

#14

valrod33
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Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
What is this 1955 or something? Should we go one further and play our guys both ways? Look man since the 70's teams have been subbing in personnel groups based on down and distance, we are not the only team who does this relax.

Yeah a lot of teams do it, but how often do you see wes welker on the bench? A brandon Lloyd, dwayne bowe, greg Jennings, jj finley? Let's take out a player who fights for the ball for one who does not then throw a jump ball to him. Re; ted ginn fade.

This. Crabtree should never leave the field, right now he is our best WR and we are only helping the other team out by having him on the sidelines