OL - swapping positions

Pasodoc, yes, there has been quite an improvement over the course of the year. They still have a ways to go but I am pretty happy with the group of linemen we have now.

Yea I've thought this would make sense. Davis moves well enough to dominate at guard

Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Yea I've thought this would make sense. Davis moves well enough to dominate at guard

He does have the talent to play RG ..but watching him develop this season I believe he will eventually be an elite Right Tackle and stay there until he retires


But it is a good thing that we have versatile offensive lineman that can move to another position if needed, just like Jesse Sapulo playing at a high level at center AND guard

No question about it - our Oline is vastly superior to the past 5 years. Improvement in the NFL is a necessity and not an option.

Our improvement has come for player improvement at Center and more experience in LG, RT and removing Busto Rachel. The main factor, IMHO, has been SUPERIOR coaching. Our game planning has made an incredible difference.

Going to the next level I'm guessing, that Boone is being groomed as Staley's replacement. Staley has been injured in the past and having his replacement ready is smart. Still guessing - Kilgore is being groomed to take over as Center.

Still, if we can land on OLine stud in FA or draft we'll take him. I would leave Davis at RT - he is really getting better. We will need a big,nasty to take over RG in to near future.

Great feedback everyone - enjoyable to read thoughtful input. THANKS.

The only thing I read that I don't agree with is moving ADavis in to RG. He is really not built to be a guard -- too tall and long armed. he has the feet to play tackle. Guards are typically more compact because they are working against tackles in tighter space where low leverage is pretty key -- they need to be able to root out defenders. For a guard, good quickness going forward and toughness to block are key. For a tackle, good feet, balance, for pass blocking and long arms are the key to engage the rusher.

There are only a couple of examples of guys successfully moving from T to G -- I think Levi (?) did it when he went from the Cards to Cowboys, and hasn't gallery moved inside?

LT - Staley - Will be replaced by Boone next year; WAY too many sacks, QB hurries, pressures and very poor in short yardage (zero push - usually pushed back). Great in space as a run blocker though! Can seal the edge 50% of the time
LG - Keep as is; needs to work on inside pass blocking still and blitz recognition (but the whole line does collectively); a dominant LT would do him HUGE like Davis with Synder
C - Solid all around; could even grade out as our best OL this year on film. QB of the line and sets the pass protections esp. for blitz protection; will need more work on this area for next year.
RG - No question how important he is and esp. to Davis; gets to the second level well
RT - Fiesty and getting better each game!

Originally posted by NCommand:
LT - Staley - Will be replaced by Boone next year; WAY too many sacks, QB hurries, pressures and very poor in short yardage (zero push - usually pushed back). Great in space as a run blocker though! Can seal the edge 50% of the time
LG - Keep as is; needs to work on inside pass blocking still and blitz recognition (but the whole line does collectively); a dominant LT would do him HUGE like Davis with Synder
C - Solid all around; could even grade out as our best OL this year on film. QB of the line and sets the pass protections esp. for blitz protection; will need more work on this area for next year.
RG - No question how important he is and esp. to Davis; gets to the second level well
RT - Fiesty and getting better each game!

Excellent analysis, as usual from you!

Staley seemed to struggle early in the season. Throughout his career he has had a tendency to give up a sack early in a game, then settles in and plays well. Early this season he wasn't rebounding from early game problems, but struggled throughout some games. Boone will have to step up and take the position, though. Staleys a leader of the OL, and would not surrender his starting position without a fight.

Your thoughts on Goodwin at Center are interesting. I agree with you, I think he's done an outstanding job. I don't see a need to address his position anytime soon, meaning that the team can groom Kilgore to take over in a year or two.

RG is the issue. Snyder appears to be the answer for now, I'd hate to see Rachal back, and Kilgore may be the long term answer. But I could see the team taking that RG from Stanford in the draft to address the problem at RG.

Both Iupati and Davis continue to improve as they gain experience and mature.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LT - Staley - Will be replaced by Boone next year; WAY too many sacks, QB hurries, pressures and very poor in short yardage (zero push - usually pushed back). Great in space as a run blocker though! Can seal the edge 50% of the time
LG - Keep as is; needs to work on inside pass blocking still and blitz recognition (but the whole line does collectively); a dominant LT would do him HUGE like Davis with Synder
C - Solid all around; could even grade out as our best OL this year on film. QB of the line and sets the pass protections esp. for blitz protection; will need more work on this area for next year.
RG - No question how important he is and esp. to Davis; gets to the second level well
RT - Fiesty and getting better each game!

Excellent analysis, as usual from you!

Staley seemed to struggle early in the season. Throughout his career he has had a tendency to give up a sack early in a game, then settles in and plays well. Early this season he wasn't rebounding from early game problems, but struggled throughout some games. Boone will have to step up and take the position, though. Staleys a leader of the OL, and would not surrender his starting position without a fight.

Your thoughts on Goodwin at Center are interesting. I agree with you, I think he's done an outstanding job. I don't see a need to address his position anytime soon, meaning that the team can groom Kilgore to take over in a year or two.

RG is the issue. Snyder appears to be the answer for now, I'd hate to see Rachal back, and Kilgore may be the long term answer. But I could see the team taking that RG from Stanford in the draft to address the problem at RG.

Both Iupati and Davis continue to improve as they gain experience and mature.

Thanks OND!

Yeah, I wouldn't even be surprised to see us draft a top prospect at LT next year, even in the first round esp. now that Boone has signed LT. How much is Staley paid now? Let him walk and target a veteran LT or other key FA? In a Harbaugh offense, he wants maulers in the run game and loves to run off tackle (Ginn & Hunter) as well as inside (Gore); neither are Staley's strengths esp. in short yardage which is key to moving the chains. Boone can swing at both T positions and can be that extra blocker - hell, he could probably catch a pass or two as well. I think Kilgore showed a ton of promise and is as nasty at RG as Davis is at RT. Imagine them together! So, IMHO, we CLEARLY need an upgrade at LT either through a high draft pick, FA pickup and/or Boone outright, winning the job head-to-head; Staley may be given his walking papers. We also need to lock up Synder and continue to look for and/or groom the C position which is critical. As a team, we've had dominant spurts in the run game but not consistency and our QB has been beaten to hell with sacks, hits and QB hurries all year. I feel part of that is learning a new system, facing 8-10 men in the box run blitzing or using overloading and exotic blitzing, little time together, etc. But it's also b/c we have a couple average-at-best players who have already maxed out at their potential and it's time for an upgrade now if we are ever to go to the next level of this offense. Everything starts with the OL...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LT - Staley - Will be replaced by Boone next year; WAY too many sacks, QB hurries, pressures and very poor in short yardage (zero push - usually pushed back). Great in space as a run blocker though! Can seal the edge 50% of the time
LG - Keep as is; needs to work on inside pass blocking still and blitz recognition (but the whole line does collectively); a dominant LT would do him HUGE like Davis with Synder
C - Solid all around; could even grade out as our best OL this year on film. QB of the line and sets the pass protections esp. for blitz protection; will need more work on this area for next year.
RG - No question how important he is and esp. to Davis; gets to the second level well
RT - Fiesty and getting better each game!

Excellent analysis, as usual from you!

Staley seemed to struggle early in the season. Throughout his career he has had a tendency to give up a sack early in a game, then settles in and plays well. Early this season he wasn't rebounding from early game problems, but struggled throughout some games. Boone will have to step up and take the position, though. Staleys a leader of the OL, and would not surrender his starting position without a fight.

Your thoughts on Goodwin at Center are interesting. I agree with you, I think he's done an outstanding job. I don't see a need to address his position anytime soon, meaning that the team can groom Kilgore to take over in a year or two.

RG is the issue. Snyder appears to be the answer for now, I'd hate to see Rachal back, and Kilgore may be the long term answer. But I could see the team taking that RG from Stanford in the draft to address the problem at RG.

Both Iupati and Davis continue to improve as they gain experience and mature.

Thanks OND!

Yeah, I wouldn't even be surprised to see us draft a top prospect at LT next year, even in the first round esp. now that Boone has signed LT. How much is Staley paid now? Let him walk and target a veteran LT or other key FA? In a Harbaugh offense, he wants maulers in the run game and loves to run off tackle (Ginn & Hunter) as well as inside (Gore); neither are Staley's strengths esp. in short yardage which is key to moving the chains. Boone can swing at both T positions and can be that extra blocker - hell, he could probably catch a pass or two as well. I think Kilgore showed a ton of promise and is as nasty at RG as Davis is at RT. Imagine them together! So, IMHO, we CLEARLY need an upgrade at LT either through a high draft pick, FA pickup and/or Boone outright, winning the job head-to-head; Staley may be given his walking papers. We also need to lock up Synder and continue to look for and/or groom the C position which is critical. As a team, we've had dominant spurts in the run game but not consistency and our QB has been beaten to hell with sacks, hits and QB hurries all year. I feel part of that is learning a new system, facing 8-10 men in the box run blitzing or using overloading and exotic blitzing, little time together, etc. But it's also b/c we have a couple average-at-best players who have already maxed out at their potential and it's time for an upgrade now if we are ever to go to the next level of this offense. Everything starts with the OL...

I think Niner fans are a little delusional. Let Tackles are getting torched all over the league. There are very few blue chip players at LT. My proof, Staley is in the running for the pro bowl and could make it as an alternate or as a long shot. That means he is a top 4 talent, and people want to get rid of a top 4 talent??

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Excellent analysis, as usual from you!

Staley seemed to struggle early in the season. Throughout his career he has had a tendency to give up a sack early in a game, then settles in and plays well. Early this season he wasn't rebounding from early game problems, but struggled throughout some games. Boone will have to step up and take the position, though. Staleys a leader of the OL, and would not surrender his starting position without a fight.

Your thoughts on Goodwin at Center are interesting. I agree with you, I think he's done an outstanding job. I don't see a need to address his position anytime soon, meaning that the team can groom Kilgore to take over in a year or two.

RG is the issue. Snyder appears to be the answer for now, I'd hate to see Rachal back, and Kilgore may be the long term answer. But I could see the team taking that RG from Stanford in the draft to address the problem at RG.

Both Iupati and Davis continue to improve as they gain experience and mature.

Snyder is a FA next year is he not? Either Kilgore will step in next year or one of the tackles might slide inside unless they sign a gree agent or draft someone. With so many FA, as much you might want Snyder to stay next year to give continuity he might be gone like Bass. There is always someone willing to pay, look at how many teams need linemen.

Staley isn't going anywhere

#Fact

Hey, Command, good to hear from you. Awhile back ,either in this thread or another, someone was commenting on how plebian our C is. Man, i guess that guy hasn't seen our C play the past 8 yrs. It has been awful, and last yr was C of the week, for what seemed an entire season. I actually was interested in a C maybe hi up in 2nd rd, but he disappeared. I think Goodwin's play has been exemplary, excepting a few times he got knocked on his keaster with a ILB bullrush. Other than that very good work, which means mainly, not having your name called out over the loudspeaker. He has been very inapparent which is exactly how i like a C to be.

Originally posted by 9erred:
I think Niner fans are a little delusional. Let Tackles are getting torched all over the league. There are very few blue chip players at LT. My proof, Staley is in the running for the pro bowl and could make it as an alternate or as a long shot. That means he is a top 4 talent, and people want to get rid of a top 4 talent??

Yeah, I hear what you are saying; the point is though that while he may have the name or reputation in the league, looking at his actual play, from snap to snap, the coaches need to evaluate whether Staley is a good fit for the type of offense they are trying to employ. He isn't a terrible player by any means but reviewing the quality of his play, snap-by-snap, IMHO, he is NOT a good fit for this offense. I think the Boone signing is not surprising either. You can't have a LT who can't get any push on the line, seal the edge well and continually gets beat to the point where his QB is getting sacked or hit frequently. We do need to keep in mind that he is typically facing a teams best pass rusher but he's also getting help from Iupati and we often times need to add additional blockers on his side to run (Peele, Boone, VD, etc). I do think he is fantastic in space but he's not a pulling guard. His two biggest strengths need to be pass protection (protecting the blind side) and getting movement/sealing the edge esp. in short yardage situations. Both are his weaknesses IMO. Again, as I referenced before, at 10-2, we are looking for an upgrade. No? We also need to review his salary close and cohesion along the OL.

Originally posted by jreff22:
Staley isn't going anywhere

#Fact

That's what you guys said about Lawson, Franklin, Spikes, LaBoy, Manusky, etc.

Keep an open mind. Be objective...

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Hey, Command, good to hear from you. Awhile back ,either in this thread or another, someone was commenting on how plebian our C is. Man, i guess that guy hasn't seen our C play the past 8 yrs. It has been awful, and last yr was C of the week, for what seemed an entire season. I actually was interested in a C maybe hi up in 2nd rd, but he disappeared. I think Goodwin's play has been exemplary, excepting a few times he got knocked on his keaster with a ILB bullrush. Other than that very good work, which means mainly, not having your name called out over the loudspeaker. He has been very inapparent which is exactly how i like a C to be.

I agree pas! Given he came in late, is learning a whole new system and we've had moments of amazing play along the whole line, he is a big reason for that...albeit in run blocking, pass blocking or being the QB of the OL. He also hasn't been injured like every other C we've had! I think we are grooming Kilgore for RG but a higher pick on a LT or a 3rd/4th on a C is not a bad way to go either b/c it will take a couple years to learn this complicated system and who better, than to learn behind a former pro-bowler who will probably get better and better each week with experience in this WCO.