Review of every single Drop back Alex took tonight

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited.


apparently that was his point

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited.


apparently that was his point

Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

NVC, not to excuse Williams but...
On the swing route(or bubble) that he one handed, could that have been from him not seeing smith throw it? And did someone miss a block on the free running rusher that smith had to pump fake on?

Was that a play that should have been made but had extenuating circumstances? Or was it just a pure f**kup by Williams?

Originally posted by mike:
Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

There are too many ways to label one as elite... If Alex wins a Super Bowl (not a high chance this year), for example, will he be considered elite? or are there going to be excuses made. Elite quarterbacks have one thing Alex hasn't had: continuity. The jury is still out on the guy's long term eliteness, but more seasoning under harbaugh, if afforded, will help him in that venture. McNabb isn't the player he was before being shuffled around, but at that point of his career was he elite? that term is so fleeting now... Rivers is having a terrible year, yet he's still considered elite this season?

Originally posted by lssanjose:

Originally posted by mike:
Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

There are too many ways to label one as elite... If Alex wins a Super Bowl (not a high chance this year), for example, will he be considered elite? or are there going to be excuses made. Elite quarterbacks have one thing Alex hasn't had: continuity. The jury is still out on the guy's long term eliteness, but more seasoning under harbaugh, if afforded, will help him in that venture. McNabb isn't the player he was before being shuffled around, but at that point of his career was he elite? that term is so fleeting now... Rivers is having a terrible year, yet he's still considered elite this season?

Based on the history of the Smith Hating Effem's, it should probably be clear by now that even if Smith wins a Super Bowl they will not consider him an elite qb.

I'll take Harbaugh's analysis, based on his knowledge of the position, that Smith is elite.

Seriously though, Alex isn't elite. Elite QBs <win> you games. Alex hasn't won a game for us solely based on his QB ability. Maybe he can still get there. He's shown enough improvement this year for me to have hope. But elite right now? Nope.

And no, winning a Super Bowl doesn't make you elite. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson come to mind. Brad Johnson was a very good QB in his own right, but I dont think he was ever considered elite, at least not for an extended period of time...of course, that's what being elite is all about.

Again, Alex isn't elite. And i like Alex and what he's doing. Harbaugh is protecting his guys, as he should.

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by lssanjose:

Originally posted by mike:
Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

There are too many ways to label one as elite... If Alex wins a Super Bowl (not a high chance this year), for example, will he be considered elite? or are there going to be excuses made. Elite quarterbacks have one thing Alex hasn't had: continuity. The jury is still out on the guy's long term eliteness, but more seasoning under harbaugh, if afforded, will help him in that venture. McNabb isn't the player he was before being shuffled around, but at that point of his career was he elite? that term is so fleeting now... Rivers is having a terrible year, yet he's still considered elite this season?

Based on the history of the Smith Hating Effem's, it should probably be clear by now that even if Smith wins a Super Bowl they will not consider him an elite qb.

I'll take Harbaugh's analysis, based on his knowledge of the position, that Smith is elite.

Trent dilfer won a superbowl, do you consider him elite? Enough said. If we win a superbowl it'll be on the backs of the run game and defense.

As for the previous post, "is rivers still elite", even in this terrible "off" year he throws 300 yards a game and has two more touchdowns than alex. His o-line is not protecting him too well this year(6 sacks to the raiders lulz), and he's one of those statue QBs that can't do much when the pocket collapses. So yes his efficiency is down, just like freeman is also experiencing how the turnovers can come very quickly. I still consider him elite because he has that track record. Just like how we don't consider the saints a s**t team when they lose one game to the rams, one off year doesn't make a player crap either. Unless he just never picks his game up.

If SD gets tired of him I'll take him any day over alex. The only reason he gets so much heat is because he's "the guy" there. Put him here and the defense would make it so he doesn't have to score as often/force the ball as much, and the run game would take pressure off of him. The way it stands now SD has a mediocre run game and a horrible manusky defense. Not to mention they've always had one of the crappiest special teams units in football, horrible field positioning.

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited.


apparently that was his point

Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

You say "point is Alex shouldn't be compared to the top elite" yet that's the standard you hold him to. So which is it? Oh I see compare when it's convenient.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited.


apparently that was his point

Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

You say "point is Alex shouldn't be compared to the top elite" yet that's the standard you hold him to. So which is it? Oh I see compare when it's convenient.

LOL, yes alex smith having his career best year compares to a "top elite" player having a career-worst year. Ok I'll give him that.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited.


apparently that was his point

Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

You say "point is Alex shouldn't be compared to the top elite" yet that's the standard you hold him to. So which is it? Oh I see compare when it's convenient.

Haha, I continuously see this logic from the hypercritical individuals on the Zone.

"Alex isn't elite, and shouldn't be compared by that standard, but I'm going to hold him to that standard anyway because that's what I Want."



The only thing that doing this does is tell you Alex is not elite, because he doesn't do backflips over defenders and throw 75 yard bombs for TD's against great defenses (oh wait) or escape tremendous pressure a lot of the times (oh wait, again)...

People doing all this "elite QB" talk fail to consider that a QB WILL NOT LOOK ELITE, ESPECIALLY STATISTICALLY IF THEY'RE SACKED NINE TIMES IN A GAME. It just doesn't happen. Go back to Bart Starr against the Lions way way back. He's a hall of famer and got sacked something like 11 times. Sure didn't look like a HOF'er that day.

Man you sure did put in some work on this.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by mike:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
People are comparing Alex to the few elite quarterbacks because thats what a ton of posters are saying he is becoming. Harbaugh has said he is every bit an elite QB, an posters have run with that quote. I mean, there have been Drew Brees comparisons for gods sake.

So who's right? You or Harbaugh?

Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. Its a matter of who is allowed to be brutally honest. I dont have an agenda. I dont have to protect my players. I dont speak for my entire franchise.

Perfect example, we all thing Chilo Rachal is one of the worst players in the league. He sucks. Flat out garbage. It is painfully obvious right? Now what do you think Jim Harbaugh would say if a reporter asked him what he thinks of Chilo? You think he would say he sucks? I would bet every dollar in my bank account he wouldnt say that.

Exactly, can you imagine what would happen if harbaugh said "We're doing everything we can to make sure alex doesn't f**k things up"? Lol. He's not that kind of coach. He's not singletary.

So in other words, you're both right and he's wrong. Nice.

So in your words, everything harbaugh says is pure gold. If he says smith is a top 5 quarterback, you believe it. Even if statistically there are no comparisons to any of the top tier quarterbacks.

With rachal, harbaugh said today, "We believe in Chilo Rachal. So we feel good with him at that position. If it's prolonged with Snyder, then Chilo will step up." I think the first part pretty much explains what me and 80sbaby are talking about, if he throws rachal or smith to the media fire it means he doesn't "believe" in them, in his eyes. He'll raise players up with compliments way before he ever criticizes them. What could he possibly gain by saying his starting quarterback is mediocre at best?

So yes, I do think harbaugh is wrong. As much as I want to believe alex smith is all of a sudden drew brees or tom brady, there's nothing that says he is. Just look at "attempts" if you want to see how much harbaugh REALLY trusts smith to make plays consistently.

I'll do a similar comparison just with attempts if you'd like:
Smith: 298
Brady attempts: 387
Eli: 355
Ryan: 360
Flacco: 411
brees: 422
rodgers: 361
stafford: 443

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited. This IS a passing league still. Take out the great play of gore or our defense and alex would be getting zero of these "comparisons."

ah this argument again

look up rushing stats for each of those teams, then look up avg field position

you have no point

*sigh*

Care to respond to the other part of his message? You know....the basic point we were both trying to make?

That gets my point across well enough, "elite" quarterbacks are allowed to make plays consistently, mediocre ones who aren't truly trusted to carry the offense are more limited.


apparently that was his point

Nah my point was lost somewhere in there. The original point was that alex should not be compared to the top elite. Whether or not we truly trust him is harder to verify with stats and you're right that my attempt argument wasn't the strongest. It's kind of a chicken or the egg question, are we running gore 30 times a game because we're just having success doing it, or are we doing it to make it so alex "doesn't f**k up"? Just like the opposite: stafford might throw it more often because of their lack of a running game.

As for your point, The difference in yards per game between a heavy-pass team with a mediocre run game and a mediocre pass team with a heavy run game is pretty tremendous. All you have to do is look at total yards, we're 27th, there are no other teams ranked that low that are above .500 in wins. As for field position, the good teams get good field position period. We're 9th in average punt returns with 11.4/return while pats and packers for example are 5th and 6th with about a yard more than us. As for kick returns, we're 2nd but the difference is an average of 5 yards between us and some of the pass happy teams like the patriots. You can't convince me that good field position and run game can completely replace a quarterback that can get you 150+ more yards per game and twice the touchdowns than ours can.

I know yards aren't everything, but elite quarterbacks can get you down the field with the clock ticking down and score. Alex is not an elite quarterback it's really that simple, the elite quarterbacks score twice as often and have at least 100 yards/game on him. Attempts don't tell the whole story I know that wasn't the best argument, but when combined with the other stats it tells us that his name simply does not belong in comparisons with the elite. Too many of our drives end up in punts or field goals to be calling him elite.

For now we are winning without those yards, our defense makes up the difference, that doesn't mean the passing offense isn't still the weakest part of our team and we'd be freakin 16-0 and annual favorites for the superbowl with a truly elite quarterback.

You say "point is Alex shouldn't be compared to the top elite" yet that's the standard you hold him to. So which is it? Oh I see compare when it's convenient.

Haha, I continuously see this logic from the hypercritical individuals on the Zone.

"Alex isn't elite, and shouldn't be compared by that standard, but I'm going to hold him to that standard anyway because that's what I Want."



The only thing that doing this does is tell you Alex is not elite, because he doesn't do backflips over defenders and throw 75 yard bombs for TD's against great defenses (oh wait) or escape tremendous pressure a lot of the times (oh wait, again)...

People doing all this "elite QB" talk fail to consider that a QB WILL NOT LOOK ELITE, ESPECIALLY STATISTICALLY IF THEY'RE SACKED NINE TIMES IN A GAME. It just doesn't happen. Go back to Bart Starr against the Lions way way back. He's a hall of famer and got sacked something like 11 times. Sure didn't look like a HOF'er that day.

That was one game against the best pass rush we've faced thus far. He's had plenty of protection most of the season minus a few games like ravens and cowboys, he also sometimes holds on to the ball longer than he should allowing extra sacks(harbaugh even said this).

A lot of these comparisons are being lost because most of you guys read one post at most not the entire discussion, the original post was how alex should be compared to the top tier "elite", so it's not just this ambiguous "elite" term that could mean anything, it's specifically TOP TIER, like brady/brees/rodgers, and recently eli manning who has moved into that tier. Someone else brought up Rivers, who I don't consider to be having an elite year so he can be compared to smith this year.

So no, it's not just f**king backflips, these guys all have about 10-15 more touchdowns, are allowed to throw 10-15 more times per game, have higher yards per completion, and throw 150+ yards more than alex per game. These guys carry their f**king teams. These guys ARE their offenses. These guys are not just game managers. The offenses of the teams with "elite" quarterbacks have higher 3rd down percentages, meaning fewer 3-and-outs, drives last longer and result in more touchdowns. Pass first teams have higher total offenses, and generally score more points.

I KNOW we haven't needed those extra touchdowns to win games because of our defense, I KNOW field position and our running game make up some of the yardage difference, I KNOW alex doesn't need to carry the offense very often. None of that means we wouldn't be that much better with a truly "elite" quarterback. Most of you guys are arguing semantics like "oh how can you say we can't compare alex to elites and then you do it", I'm doing it to show you how little of a comparison there truly is. Twice as many touchdowns and 200+ yards a game is HUGE. Rivers in his worst year comparing to alex in his best is an example showing how he can not really compare to top tier quarterbacks. Show me a comparison that makes sense. QB rating? Who gives a crap about that. I know alex has had an efficient year but that just means he's not losing games for us.