SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS. NEW ORLEANS SAINTS OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Thanks for the breakdown. Was interesting.

I just think our offensive line doesn't have the cohesion it needs to know their assignments on the various blitzes teams are gonna throw at us.

Combine that with the fact that Alex Smith has never been able to beat pressure and we're gonna see defenses blitzing the hell out of us all year.

Agreed. But I don't know about Alex "never" being able to "beat pressure." Last season he had some his best plays just by beating the blitz. The 62 yard TD to Westbrook comes to mind (against the Cards or Seahawks). Also had a few nice throws to Vernon when teams blitzed.

Now as far as being consistently good at doing it...that's another story.

I think the more practices these guys have the better they get. It's just really tough to gauge pre season. Last year Smith for example had a 7 rating in the first pre season game. Then a 90 and 100 rating or something the next two games and we all thought "oh he's doing fine." We beat the 1st team defense for the Raiders and Vikes. Hell David Carr looked pretty solid in pre season. Hate to say it but we really won't have much idea until game 1 reg season.

Originally posted by 49erAddict:
I agree with the assessment of the tackle position. Staley was great as RT his 1st year, after that, just because he was the best O lineman on the team does not mean that he is a great LT. Boone is coming along well at this point as LT...not great, or even very good, but well and consistant. A Davis should be a back-up until he learns to play NFL ball. Wragge plays better than Snyder...the long-term answer at RG is not on the team at this point. Goodwin needs to start playing 1st Center now.

I doubt the coaches are ready for this much change. Goodwin at Center, yes. But, over the longer term you may be right. It may not be fair, but with detailed viewing of just 9 plays, it seemed that ADavis is big, but plays soft, Goodwin seemed to hold the point of attack better, but also was slower to react, Staley made some mistakes. Boone received praise from the announcers for his improvement, but remember, he was playing against second the third teamers -- a big difference. If we see Boone coming in earlier during the pre-season - say by the 4th series -- that will be a good indication that the coaches want to see him against more talent and are considering this big shuffle of Staley to RT. Some people will say that they just want to see Boone confirmed as the swing tackle, but I would have to think, it would be an indication of coaches evaluating longer term changes. At RG, I would have to agree, the long term answer does not appear on the roster unless they can coach up Rachel. Snyder seems to get over powered and Wragge seems stiff.

Seven practices in the new scheme, 1st preseason game, IDK about the performance I expected us to be raw. I do take exception to multiple blitz's in the preseason. Blitz/blitz pick-up are more about cohesion and scheme then about individual performance. The early preseason is played pretty vanilla so that coaches can get film on players in common one on one situations and make evaluations and decide on players futures in the NFL. Payton know is roster and his players know his system, he had relatively little to learn, so rather than keeping it simple and letting Harbaugh learn about his roster in a voluntary preseason practice game, the Niner's have a little input in regards to whom the play in the preseason, Payton choose to be a dick. Tell me other than our guys had not learned, or prepared much for blitz and blitz pick up, what did we learn?

Originally posted by kunged:
Thanks for the detailed breakdown.

These two points are key for me. In the end a team will only (consistently) succeed with a good coach, hopefully Harbaugh will do the job here!

I have to agree with you, the coaches making adjustments quickly and the more creative play calling were very encouraging signs.

The blitzing that the Saints displayed were definitely not vanilla. Disguising coverages to send a corner or safety off the edge is not a normal preseason type blitz. I think it was awesome to see and gave our OL a ton of good looks. It's a little outside the norm of preseason where opposing coaches try to help each other out and give QBs time in the pocket for evaluation. It's also weird to see a championship caliber team lay their defensive cards on the table week 1. Gotta save some of that magic for the real week 1! The other thing that surprised me was seeing the 1's go so hard after the QB. I know preseason is a competition but most of those guys have secured jobs (based on guaranteed monies) and the unwritten rule in the preseason is you don't have to kill the other teams QB to make your point. Bottom line though, don't freak out about how the team played. Alex is not a game day QB, pure and simple. He's got no pocket awareness and couldn't smell pressure coming off the edge if his life depended on it. Does the OL playing like a community college B squad team help? No, it doesn't. But he should have adjusted his style, checked down to the hot routes or draws. Alex Smith is not a game day QB. Colin displayed flashes, but has a long way to go. Getting it right after 10 practices is never going to happen. Could they have played better? Yes, they could have and I expected more. But, they're young and so is the coaching staff. Bright future ahead though I think. Even if we keep getting blitzed like its the NFC Championship game!

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Seven practices in the new scheme, 1st preseason game, IDK about the performance I expected us to be raw. I do take exception to multiple blitz's in the preseason. Blitz/blitz pick-up are more about cohesion and scheme then about individual performance. The early preseason is played pretty vanilla so that coaches can get film on players in common one on one situations and make evaluations and decide on players futures in the NFL. Payton know is roster and his players know his system, he had relatively little to learn, so rather than keeping it simple and letting Harbaugh learn about his roster in a voluntary preseason practice game, the Niner's have a little input in regards to whom the play in the preseason, Payton choose to be a dick. Tell me other than our guys had not learned, or prepared much for blitz and blitz pick up, what did we learn?

From just the 9 plays I broke down the coaches have a TON to teach from on this film.
1. The TE on the end of the line has to know better with the tackle and RB about who is picking up a free outside blitzer.
2. RB need work on the blocking pick-up -- they moved to the right places, but threw pretty poor blocks.
3. Both LT and RT had technique breakdowns that can be coached.
4. Center snaps need a lot of work
5. When a guard pulls, the scheme may have to require a deeper step behind the line to account for a lack of stoutness to hold the line. This will affect timing with the RB hitting the hole.
6. Lastly, the Coaching staff has some real thinking to do about the Oline creating a pocket for the passer. The pocket was compressed in the center AND edges. You can criticize the QB, both of them, but there were no clean areas to move as the pass protection started to breakdown, and it broke down fast -- hardly 2 seconds to throw. This is putting a lot of big bodies close to the QB, giving him a very tight space within which to work and then throw over. They did try one short sprint right, and even then the defense was immediately on top of the QB due to poor blocking.

And a lot more.

Originally posted by HearstFan:
(THREE SERIES BROKEN DOWN SEPARATELY - SEE SERIES 2 and 3 BELOW)

I think it is inaccurate to claim that SF was completely unprepared for the Saints blitz packages. Blocking adjustments and pressure recognition are basics of football – and these guys have been playing for years. Even if the Offensive installation has only had 12 practices, the basics should have been installed – the defense does practice blitzes in training camp already! So here is a detailed breakdown of the first series, and I think it shows the 49ers had installed blitz recognition and adjustments -- at least some.

So was it scheme, mental mistakes/blown assignments, or individuals getting beat? Here is the first series:

FIRST SERIES
PLAY 1
3 WR set left, 1 back, TE right
Saints send 6 rushers, 4 DL and both OLB
TE (Davis) releases at snap despite blitz, and
RT (Davis) picks up (p/u) OLB pretty well
(this coordination of RT/TE seem planned)
RG – holds DE well
Center – gets pushed back into pocket
LG – Holds well
LT – Holds well
RB p/u left OLB blitz well enough
Pass incomplete to TE
But overall, clearly the line and RB had been coached to p/u the rushers and executed well.

PLAY 2
Run – LG Iupati pulls to the right and runs right into 76 Anthony Davis washing his man down to the left. Norris hits his LB in the hole, and Gore picks up 3 despite the blown blocking.

PLAY 3
2 WR left, 1 WR right, TE Davis in slot, shotgun formation, 1 RB to right.
Saints send 7 – yeah, 7 Roman Harper sent from covering inside receiver on left, 4 DL, middle linebacker, and OLB over TE, 4 deep coverage played behind. The announcers even warned the Roman Harper is a known blitzing threat in these situations. So clearly, this intel should have been known to 49ers.
LT Staley beat badly to the inside by DE that ultimately made the hit on Smith
LG Iupati – as Staley followed the DE inside, Upati did try to move outside to p/u the outside blitz by the safety Harper, although he was a bit late, he clearly recognized the p/u.
Center – held OK
RG – held OK
RT – held OK
RB – Gore p/u the OLB blitz
Smith crushed by the DE hit. Ironically, if SMITH had recognized the pressure was coming early he could have completed a quick pass to TE Davis who had released and had his head around looking for a hot throw. As a matter of fact, all the receivers had their heads around, so they all seemed ready for the pressure. Staley was livid after the play and appeared to yell at Iupati for some reason. Perhaps Iupati was supposed to p/u the DE and let Staley slide out to get Harper? It looked like Iupati going out to get Harper was planned. Maybe Staley was just mad at himself for getting beat? I am not saying this was ASmith’s fault, but it did appear that a quick response/throw to the pressure could have made the defense pay. CORRECTION - rewatching the play, the snap was a bit high and bobbled (hit Smith in the face), once he had the ball, he did turn to make an immediate throw. So I think Smith recognized the pressure and was planning on a quick throw, but the timing was just off with the bobbled snap.

So far, best I can tell, the failure was Staley getting beat badly by the DE -- the blitzing harper never even made it to the QB the DE was so quickly in.

I'll post series 2 next.

I'm with you the 3rd down sack appears to be Staley's fault. Iupati had a DT lined up over him, so he couldn't slide to the outside to help Stayley.

damn good post bruh ... feel smart now

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i imagine the Saints were blitzing to practice their blitzing

this

Originally posted by 49ERFANb4Uwas:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
i imagine the Saints were blitzing to practice their blitzing

this

^

Its preseason I doubt they were hitting up former players for inside info for game planning.


I actually doubt they were even game planning.

What feud between Harbaugh and Payton??

Originally posted by mojo141:
The blitzing that the Saints displayed were definitely not vanilla. Disguising coverages to send a corner or safety off the edge is not a normal preseason type blitz. I think it was awesome to see and gave our OL a ton of good looks. It's a little outside the norm of preseason where opposing coaches try to help each other out and give QBs time in the pocket for evaluation. It's also weird to see a championship caliber team lay their defensive cards on the table week 1. Gotta save some of that magic for the real week 1! The other thing that surprised me was seeing the 1's go so hard after the QB. I know preseason is a competition but most of those guys have secured jobs (based on guaranteed monies) and the unwritten rule in the preseason is you don't have to kill the other teams QB to make your point. Bottom line though, don't freak out about how the team played. Alex is not a game day QB, pure and simple. He's got no pocket awareness and couldn't smell pressure coming off the edge if his life depended on it. Does the OL playing like a community college B squad team help? No, it doesn't. But he should have adjusted his style, checked down to the hot routes or draws. Alex Smith is not a game day QB. Colin displayed flashes, but has a long way to go. Getting it right after 10 practices is never going to happen. Could they have played better? Yes, they could have and I expected more. But, they're young and so is the coaching staff. Bright future ahead though I think. Even if we keep getting blitzed like its the NFC Championship game!

There was NO disguise. They lined Harper up on the outside basically on the line of scrimmage, most often not over the top of anyone he was pretending to cover. There was no role for him except blitzing - and they still failed to pick him up repeatedly.

I think Saints did us a favor. This is a rough league and these guys better be prepared for everything every week. Even if we didn't excpet them to blitz, we should already be prepared for it.

It seemed clear that the Niners were expecting the typical early preseason game, with the usual gentleman's agreement to not blitz. This is a time for all teams to run basic plays, to work on fundamental things, to evaluate talent in a managed setting. I can't ever remember any team blitzing at this time of the season, ever. It is even traditional to hear the broadcasters mention this every year, how there will be no blitzing because teams aren't ready for that, don't want injuries to the QBs and so on.

Coaches don't want to spend valuable time teaching sophisticated anti-blitz schemes to players who are not even going to make the team. Normally these systems are installed later in the pre-season when the roster is half-way set at least. The Niners just had no answer, nothing installed to employ to answer the blitzing.

The Saints knew that the Niners were starting over in so many ways and that the short preseason was especially difficult for them. They must have known that the blitzing would be almost unfairly successful and would prove nothing nor help their own cause much. But they did it anyway. It was all so odd.

What it did was set the Niners back a bit. Nobody could be evaluated in that climate and now maybe the team will have to spend some time focusing on something they didn't want to at this point. Maybe that was the plan, to screw up the Niners and delay their emergence as a really good team. Maybe it was to insult JH, the new Golden Boy. Maybe it was just an ego-driven a-h move.

Looking forward to the next game.