The Myth About West Coast Offense QBs

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Well it's because Walsh was never so over-simplistic in his evaluation of quaterbacks. No one is saying that those who you listed CAN'T make it, it's just that Walsh's offense emphasized things other than size and arm-strength. You CAN have a QB who has intangibles AND touch AND can read defenses quickly AND size AND mobility... it's the reason why those QBs today (opposed to the early 1980s) are usually at the top of the draft.

So I'm not going to quote the entire article, but here's what Walsh said:

A quick delivery , one that is not telegraphed to help the defense, gives the quarterback an advantage when he finds his intended target. That's when it is essential to get the ball "up and gone'' with no wasted motion. Some of this can be acquired by learning proper technique. But to a certain degree, a quick release is related to a quarterback's reaction time between spotting his receiver and getting the ball "up and gone.''

Touch is important, especially in a medium range passing game. One of Joe Montana's most remarkable skills was putting the right touch on a pass so that it was easily catchable by a receiver, who often did not have to break stride.

The ability to read defenses is not something that players have learned to a high degree coming out of college. Even if they have, the pro defenses are very different. But most systems require quarterbacks to look at primary and secondary receivers, usually based on the defense that confronts him. You can see if he locates that secondary receiver -- or maybe even an emergency outlet receiver -- with ease or with a sense of urgency.

This should work like a natural progression, not a situation where it's -- "Oh, my gosh, now I must look over here ... no, over there.'' You can see which quarterbacks handle these situations with grace. These are the types who have a chance to perform with consistency in the NFL.

Mobility and an ability to avoid a pass rush are crucial. Some quarterbacks use this mobility within the pocket just enough so they are able to move and pass when they "feel" a rush. But overall quickness and agility can make a remarkable difference. As an example, there were some very quick boxers in Sugar Ray Leonard's era, but he was quicker than they were and because of that he became a great champ.

Quarterbacks must be able to function while injured. The pro season is about twice as long and more punishing than a college season. They are vulnerable to getting hit hard every time they pass. They must be able to avoid being rattled, get up and show they are in control and can continue to lead the offense.

The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.

This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen. This, of course, is what we saw in Joe Montana when he pulled out those dramatic victories for Notre Dame.

Also I think what's not here is that QBs can be developed - which is what Walsh thought of Young and ultimately he was right about Garcia who he brought to the 49ers also.

Great article. I actually think I've read/heard it somewhere before. At least this part, It gave me Deja"Vu.

Touch is important, especially in a medium range passing game. One of Joe Montana's most remarkable skills was putting the right touch on a pass so that it was easily catchable by a receiver, who often did not have to break stride.

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
IN BEFORE THE

Why isn't steve young talked about as a great west coast qb... Is that because he had an arm, he could out run anyone of our running backs at the time???

Cause he's another dick, just like Bubba Paris.

I heard he was really cool from pretty much everyone who's met him.

The dude is a f**king sausage wallet, wouldn't sign my Joe Montana jersey and treated me like a second-class citizen. f**k Steve Young.

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
IN BEFORE THE

Why isn't steve young talked about as a great west coast qb... Is that because he had an arm, he could out run anyone of our running backs at the time???

Cause he's another dick, just like Bubba Paris.

I heard he was really cool from pretty much everyone who's met him.

The dude is a f**king sausage wallet, wouldn't sign my Joe Montana jersey and treated me like a second-class citizen. f**k Steve Young.

This offseason, man...

Originally posted by aman49:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
IN BEFORE THE

Why isn't steve young talked about as a great west coast qb... Is that because he had an arm, he could out run anyone of our running backs at the time???

Cause he's another dick, just like Bubba Paris.

I heard he was really cool from pretty much everyone who's met him.

The dude is a f**king sausage wallet, wouldn't sign my Joe Montana jersey and treated me like a second-class citizen. f**k Steve Young.

This offseason, man...

lol cause you are a cheap ass buy a new jersey with steve young on it!

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by aman49:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
IN BEFORE THE

Why isn't steve young talked about as a great west coast qb... Is that because he had an arm, he could out run anyone of our running backs at the time???

Cause he's another dick, just like Bubba Paris.

I heard he was really cool from pretty much everyone who's met him.

The dude is a f**king sausage wallet, wouldn't sign my Joe Montana jersey and treated me like a second-class citizen. f**k Steve Young.

This offseason, man...

lol cause you are a cheap ass buy a new jersey with steve young on it!

Nah, I think he just hates black people, (again) just like that oily klansman Bubba Paris.

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
IN BEFORE THE

Why isn't steve young talked about as a great west coast qb... Is that because he had an arm, he could out run anyone of our running backs at the time???

Cause he's another dick, just like Bubba Paris.

I heard he was really cool from pretty much everyone who's met him.

He seemed pretty cool when I met him.

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by aman49:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
IN BEFORE THE

Why isn't steve young talked about as a great west coast qb... Is that because he had an arm, he could out run anyone of our running backs at the time???

Cause he's another dick, just like Bubba Paris.

I heard he was really cool from pretty much everyone who's met him.

The dude is a f**king sausage wallet, wouldn't sign my Joe Montana jersey and treated me like a second-class citizen. f**k Steve Young.

This offseason, man...

lol cause you are a cheap ass buy a new jersey with steve young on it!

Nah, I think he just hates black people, (again) just like that oily klansman Bubba Paris.

He does love one black man, his names jerry rice!

before reading the Walsh quote I was about to say that I thought Walsh ranked a quick release and accuracy above mobility - Young could run away / escape the rush but Montana could slide and roll away from it.

Favre was a master of 'sliding' within the pocket to avoid the rush and it helped him avoid the big hits and injuries and therefore play so many games consecutively. Peyton Manning has an unbelievable quick release that means that he is rarely sacked.

For me a WCO offence QB is someone with the ability to release the ball quickly and accurately and someone who can feel pressure when its there and slide or move away from it. That and a decent level of intelligence to be coachable and some leadership qualities to be accepted within the locker room / huddle as the 'leader' on offence.

Its the accuracy issue that makes me baulk at Locker and the the release issue that makes me wary of the QB from Nevada. Dalton, Ponder, McElroy strike me as fitting the Bill.

I agree that mobility can be overrated. Matt Schaub is one of the least athletic qbs in the league. Houston's WCO does just fine.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't exclude "x" quarterback because he's unmobile. That kind of logic will have you passing Tom Brady for Tim Rattay and Giomanzi Carmazzi or whatever the hell that guy's name is.

[ Edited by tjd808185 on Mar 31, 2011 at 07:43:13 ]

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying we should get a inaccurate immobile lumber jack who is retarded to play QB?

Resign Alex Smith?

[ Edited by Norcal9erfan on Mar 31, 2011 at 09:58:55 ]

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying we should get a inaccurate immobile lumber jack who is retarded to play QB?

Resign Alex Smith?

Don't even start. Seriously.

are alex smith comments not allowed?? is there still a alex smith thread??

Originally posted by Snider8706:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying we should get a inaccurate immobile lumber jack who is retarded to play QB?

Resign Alex Smith?

Don't even start. Seriously.

are alex smith comments not allowed?? is there still a alex smith thread??

I think most people are just tired of the whole debate. I think all that can be said for both sides of the argument has already been said and people don't want to hear it for the millionth time.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying we should get a inaccurate immobile lumber jack who is retarded to play QB?

Re-sign Alex Smith?

I agree. Alex Smith is better than and wont cost draft picks. Alex Smith finally has the right coaching and offense to work in

Originally posted by Surly-Z:
They say you need a mobile, accurate, intelligent Quarterback to run the West Coast offense. Not the most physically gifted guy, and not necessarily one with a great arm. They say -- they being most posters on the webzone and most of the beat writers including maiocco and Lynch -- that you have to have intangibles and that they refer back to Montana, and for some reason never Young, and occasionally thrown in a Shaun Hill, a Tom Brady or, in the current class, a Dalton, a McElroy or a Stanzi as similar type players -- even though none actually played in the west coast offense.

Its a niner-centric point of view, that ignores the accomplishments of Walsh's disciples in other organizations: McNabb, Favre, Elway and Vick are all guys that have had accuracy issues, all guys who rely heavily on arm strength, all guys who would never "fit" the west coast offense. And yet they all succeeded in WCOs that are more recent and therefore more likely resemble Harbaugh's offense than Harbaugh's offense will resemble Walsh's. i made this point in an email to Maiocco recently, he re-iterated that he thought a WCO should have a "short motion." i guess that rules out Kaepernick...but i think his limitations, like Newton's, would be in any offense regardless....its not like the WCO is the only offense that requires mobility or accuracy or the ability to make reads....so i don't see Newton, Kaepernick, or mallet as any less of a fit for us than Vick, McNabb, and Favre in their versions of the WCO.

I would go with Kaepernick in the second round

Originally posted by Surly-Z:
They say you need a mobile, accurate, intelligent Quarterback to run the West Coast offense. Not the most physically gifted guy, and not necessarily one with a great arm. They say -- they being most posters on the webzone and most of the beat writers including maiocco and Lynch -- that you have to have intangibles and that they refer back to Montana, and for some reason never Young, and occasionally thrown in a Shaun Hill, a Tom Brady or, in the current class, a Dalton, a McElroy or a Stanzi as similar type players -- even though none actually played in the west coast offense.

Its a niner-centric point of view, that ignores the accomplishments of Walsh's disciples in other organizations: McNabb, Favre, Elway and Vick are all guys that have had accuracy issues, all guys who rely heavily on arm strength, all guys who would never "fit" the west coast offense. And yet they all succeeded in WCOs that are more recent and therefore more likely resemble Harbaugh's offense than Harbaugh's offense will resemble Walsh's. i made this point in an email to Maiocco recently, he re-iterated that he thought a WCO should have a "short motion." i guess that rules out Kaepernick...but i think his limitations, like Newton's, would be in any offense regardless....its not like the WCO is the only offense that requires mobility or accuracy or the ability to make reads....so i don't see Newton, Kaepernick, or mallet as any less of a fit for us than Vick, McNabb, and Favre in their versions of the WCO.

I think this was a good post that showed we shouldn't get stuck in a box as to what type of skillset a QB should have to run this offense. All of the aforementioned QBs definitely do not play the same type of game.