"Impose our Will" Gone, Still Drafting Troubled Players?

Originally posted by ace49ers:

Originally posted by wysiwyg:


VD was recorded coming out of a club in San Jose (admittedly drunk) admitting that he does not miss Sing.

I saw that on TMZ, he was coming out of a club intoxicated and when asked the question he said he didnt miss sing.

lol the dude was coming out of a club drunk, the last thing thats on his mind in the environment he was in was thinking about coach sing, so the answer was right. At the time he didnt miss coach sing.

I doubt though that was the only football question asked of him but thats the one they ran with.

idk that was in san jo. anybody know what club? Wet, Fahrenheit... ?

As far as I can remember, we would draft players who can play the game regardless of characters.. as long as we had the veteran leadership to guide them, we never stayed away..

Nolan started this idea of drafting players who are leaders, but he forgot that leaders can't get you anywhere in the NFL if you can't play the game.. so what we ended up having under Nolan were players who tried to lead but couldnt play.. who ended up following?? obviously no one..

Even the late Bill Walsh dindt stay away from character players (Charles Haley, Tim McKyer, Chet Brooks, Bill Romanowski, Larry Roberts, Bubba Paris, Lawrence Phillips.. on and on and on..)

and he also didnt stay away from what he called "damaged goods" players who had a bright future til injury slowed them in college.. (Kevin f*gan, Steve Wallace, Jeff Fuller; etc)

He fully believed that as long as they can play the game and a veteran player can take them under their wings, that the player can be a 49er..

i even read the time on how he believed in drafting players who are inconsistent cause as long as he's got the talent, then he can teach him how to be consistent for a long period of time.

Originally posted by aman49:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
So draft Cam Newton then......he seems like the most troubled kid out the draft....and we need a QB.

I wouldn't call him troubled nor would I have ever called Vernon troubled.

I was reading a good article today in the National Football Post and they were talking about how the Patriots, Chiefs(Scott Pioli) and Falcons(Thomas Dimitroff) go about picking players for their teams.

The link isn't working but it's worth the trouble. Here's part of the article-
Both men have made it a point to acquire players who have been leaders in college and/or in other NFL stops. That’s how the Falcons ended up with Matt Ryan, Tony Gonzalez and Curtis Lofton. In fact, 13 of the 26 players Dimitroff has drafted were college captains.

The Falcons and Chiefs also have prioritized character, as the Patriots have. “All three teams are mindful of picking guys who might not necessarily be angelic, but they are not destructive to the team with things like suspensions and arrests,” Dimitroff said.

The other common thread between the Patriots, Falcons and Chiefs is they have a system specific personnel philosophy. “We haven't wavered because of what other teams perceive to be a good fit, or how they rate players,” Dimitroff said. “We've always tried to draft for our team, not the league. So sometimes you have to pass on a very talented football player. It's easier to put together a team when you just put talent together. There is a lot more thought and rumination that goes into to acquiring players who fit into your team and your philosophy.”http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-8249.html

[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Feb 14, 2011 at 18:18:58 ]

I don't think Harbaugh will have any problems relating to and/or getting the most out of his players. Vernon in particular should absolutely thrive in Harbaugh's offense. JH loves to feature his TE's, and between VD and Walker, we have two beauts. Defensive players will be under Fangio's control...Harbaugh pretty much let's VF run the defense, with little intervention from him. Fangio runs an aggressive defense with lots of movement...that should entice guys like Bowman and Brooks to use all their physical skills to better advantage. Harbaugh hired himself what surely looks to be a crack coaching staff with tons of experience. If anything, it'll be a breath of fresh air who've been saddled first with Nolan, then with Singletary. On ST's, Seely's recognized as one of the best in the NFL...so the players under his control should also respond to his coaching.

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
So draft Cam Newton then......he seems like the most troubled kid out the draft....and we need a QB.

I wouldn't call him troubled nor would I have ever called Vernon troubled.

i agree it. I seem that vernon looks like a troubled with involed his team!

Originally posted by 9moon:
As far as I can remember, we would draft players who can play the game regardless of characters.. as long as we had the veteran leadership to guide them, we never stayed away..

Nolan started this idea of drafting players who are leaders, but he forgot that leaders can't get you anywhere in the NFL if you can't play the game.. so what we ended up having under Nolan were players who tried to lead but couldnt play.. who ended up following?? obviously no one..

Even the late Bill Walsh dindt stay away from character players (Charles Haley, Tim McKyer, Chet Brooks, Bill Romanowski, Larry Roberts, Bubba Paris, Lawrence Phillips.. on and on and on..)

and he also didnt stay away from what he called "damaged goods" players who had a bright future til injury slowed them in college.. (Kevin f*gan, Steve Wallace, Jeff Fuller; etc)

He fully believed that as long as they can play the game and a veteran player can take them under their wings, that the player can be a 49er..

i even read the time on how he believed in drafting players who are inconsistent cause as long as he's got the talent, then he can teach him how to be consistent for a long period of time.

eh, you are over-stating Walsh's position a good bit. In one of his books, he talked specifically about this and how the Hollywood Henderson case opened his eyes to the fact that there were some issues, and some players that you just had to stay away from.

Taking a chance of an injured player is totally different than taking a chance on a player who is known to use illegal substances or has a history of violent off-field behavior.

am i really??

the players I simply mentioned above are proof that even the Genius knew to take very good players even with characters.. He simply believed that the foundation was already stable, and the leader of his team will take those under their wings..

unlike the Nolan era, he drafted leaders but couldnt play.. so how in the world do you expect talented but troubled players to follow those guys??

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

I suggest you let the african american community that our team doesn't want to father their kids. Maybe then fathers will take responcibility and start raising their kids to be good kids and not the sterotypical garbage we see today.

Originally posted by JustMike:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

I suggest you let the african american community that our team doesn't want to father their kids. Maybe then fathers will take responcibility and start raising their kids to be good kids and not the sterotypical garbage we see today.

What the f**k?

Originally posted by nvninerfan1:

Originally posted by Psinex:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

Ironically, this sounds like more of the rhetoric you might hear from Singletary. Getting back to reality, these kids coming out of college are not always polished players ready for professional sports. They need mentors and coaches who show them the right way to do things.

I suppose Harbaugh might be comparable to Nolan in terms of how disciplined he is. Unlike Nolan, I think that he has a much more ambitious desire to win. I remember the article where he held a meeting with the Stanford coaches and said something to the effect that if you don't think we can win a bowl game get out. This bold statement, after they had a losing record for years. I've just seen coaches like this, where they are rambunctious and making huge promises fail to connect with the players themselves.

When Jim Tomsula took over for the final game of the season, he made it a point to let the players play loose and relaxed...have fun. The opposite of what Singletary's team was like. They responded, and we destroyed Arizona. It sounds like we're going right back to an uptight high-pressure team under Harbaugh. I guess we'll see how the players respond to him.

So are you saying that you think that the hiring of Harbaugh was a mistake?

I don't think hiring Harbaugh was a mistake. Most NFL teams need to be run tightly like a ship by its captain. I can't think of too many successful teams where their manager is loose and fun. I was just correlating Jim Tomsula's one game approach that resulted in a blow out victory of epic proportions. But I don't think you could sustain that kind of team for 16 games.

Players seemed to respond well to Nolan and Singletary at first. I guess Nolan was really good with defensive strategy, where Singletary was good at motivation. Where both failed was on the offensive side of the ball, and neither were willing to cede enough control to their offensive coordinators to be effective. Harbaugh is an offensive guy, so we'll find out if he cooperates well with a defensive coordinator. I think offensive guys are probably more inclined to hand off the reins of their defense than the other way around. Successful defensive coaches like Bill Cowher did seem to rely an awful lot on their running games.

Dennis Erickson and Mariucci were the last two offensive coaches that we had. Mariucci was doing fine, he was fired after a winning season so there's no real explanation needed. Erickson inherited a horrible roster and didn't have much to work with. Rattay and Dorsey didn't exactly strike terror into the hearts of defenses around the league. Jeff Garcia is probably the last legitimately good QB we had. And that was how long ago?

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:

Originally posted by JustMike:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

I suggest you let the african american community that our team doesn't want to father their kids. Maybe then fathers will take responcibility and start raising their kids to be good kids and not the sterotypical garbage we see today.

What the f**k?

Yeah WTF?

Originally posted by FourNine49:

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:

Originally posted by JustMike:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

I suggest you let the african american community that our team doesn't want to father their kids. Maybe then fathers will take responcibility and start raising their kids to be good kids and not the sterotypical garbage we see today.

What the f**k?

Yeah WTF?

Was that a point or counterpoint? Or am I just out in left field on this response.

Originally posted by ishkabibel:

Originally posted by FourNine49:

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:

Originally posted by JustMike:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
We dont need father figures.

We need management gurus, game plan strategists, and gameday tacticians.

I suggest you let the african american community that our team doesn't want to father their kids. Maybe then fathers will take responcibility and start raising their kids to be good kids and not the sterotypical garbage we see today.

What the f**k?

Yeah WTF?

Was that a point or counterpoint? Or am I just out in left field on this response.

The guy said we dont need father figures. And im telling you why we do, sadly. People with a two parent house are usually more stable than those from a broken home. Sadly most african americans come from a.broken home. Since the NFL is about 70% african american. You are going to get a lot of unstable kids. And unless that changes overnight, you will need someone who assumes a father figure role model like singletary was.
Now im not attacking a race here. Just a sad social state we live in.