??What type of defense gives Wco the most trouble??

Originally posted by jimbagg:
All of the above including press CB coverage, to destroy the timing and route-running of the short-to-intermediate routes.

i agree. whatever hampers timing.

A cover two scheme was successful against the WCO when the front 4 are able to get penetration and disrupt things. The only time I saw the 3-4 effective against it is when they play short zone and tackle really well.

The Pittsburgh Steelers are the best zone blitz team and they struggled against the Packers in this superbowl and against Seattle a few year back.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Wasn't the Tampa Two developed to counter-act the WCO?

This. The Tampa 2 was designed specifically to counter the WCO. With corners playing short zone press, linebackers tasked with keeping their eyes in the backfield, and linemen used as funnels to direct all runs inside to the 'backers, it was really effective vs the WCO. The only chink in the armor of the Tampa 2 is its vulnerability to deep seam routes between the safeties and flood formations that expose the far side of an isolated zone.

Both of those weaknesses can be countered with zone blitzes (a natural evolution of the Tampa 2) and zones disguised with man alignment.

3-4 with Quarters coverage... the 3-4 with the multiple blitz schemes is hard to defense and the back is usually left in pass pro and can't release, also C4 is hell on west coast pass schemes.

Nobody plays pure C2 anymore, except maybe down in the red zone, the "Tampa 2" is really Quarters coverage and sucessfully deployed in the mid 90s to counter the WCO.

[ Edited by submoa on Feb 14, 2011 at 11:09:17 ]

Originally posted by NickSh49:
The big nickel.

Buddy Rayan's 4d6, similar to what the Jets run. We used to see lot's of "Big Nickel" back in the day as well, but as long as you have a good ground game, you can overcome those "gadget" defenses. ...Frank I'm looking at you...Frank!

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Wasn't the Tampa Two developed to counter-act the WCO?

This. The Tampa 2 was designed specifically to counter the WCO. With corners playing short zone press, linebackers tasked with keeping their eyes in the backfield, and linemen used as funnels to direct all runs inside to the 'backers, it was really effective vs the WCO. The only chink in the armor of the Tampa 2 is its vulnerability to deep seam routes between the safeties and flood formations that expose the far side of an isolated zone.

Both of those weaknesses can be countered with zone blitzes (a natural evolution of the Tampa 2) and zones disguised with man alignment.

Good points. Good discussion.

The deep seam was where Brent Jones made a living. He read it very well and forced teams to make adjustments.

I like what Mike McCarthy did against Dick LeBeau. He used bunch formations very well and virtually took Polamalu out of the game.

Good chess match stuff...

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Wasn't the Tampa Two developed to counter-act the WCO?

This. The Tampa 2 was designed specifically to counter the WCO. With corners playing short zone press, linebackers tasked with keeping their eyes in the backfield, and linemen used as funnels to direct all runs inside to the 'backers, it was really effective vs the WCO. The only chink in the armor of the Tampa 2 is its vulnerability to deep seam routes between the safeties and flood formations that expose the far side of an isolated zone.

Both of those weaknesses can be countered with zone blitzes (a natural evolution of the Tampa 2) and zones disguised with man alignment.

Nice analysis.

I thought I remember hearing Bill Walsh saying that he designed HIS offense to counter the 3-4 in general back in the day? Not sure of other versions of wco.

Then again it wasn't so much the base D, say like what the giants ran but simply the main man-that being LT, the man hate or love him terrorized offenses. So it depends on the a couple people that have the gift.

The Cover 2 defense was designed to stop the WCO.

Originally posted by Niners99:
The Cover 2 defense was designed to stop the WCO.

my favorite madden defense

Defenses like Fangio will run...which is good, because they'll face them everyday in practice.

Originally posted by JeuSF49:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
The big nickel.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Niners99:
The Cover 2 defense was designed to stop the WCO.

my favorite madden defense

haha dude i'd run the seem with vd all day!!! Or throw the streak route in between the cb droping and the saftey trying to get over on the outside wr's. lol Then you switch to cover 3 so to take away the seem, well now i noticed the fs covering over the top and the ss droping. and bam hit the flat, wait i love screen passes.. Or i can do 3 wr's on 1 side then what.. Man can't cover vd in man, or gore...

My friend hates playing me cause i can read what he's doing on defense. I'm like dude 10 years of madden and you think i havent learned to presnap read. he laughes and says what how do you do that!!! lol Well i can tell if your in man and blitz or cover 3 or cover 2 then i decide who's route i want and snap yep it's what i thought ok hit the route!

[ Edited by TheGoldDiggerrrr on Feb 14, 2011 at 22:45:47 ]

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Wasn't the Tampa Two developed to counter-act the WCO?

This. The Tampa 2 was designed specifically to counter the WCO. With corners playing short zone press, linebackers tasked with keeping their eyes in the backfield, and linemen used as funnels to direct all runs inside to the 'backers, it was really effective vs the WCO. The only chink in the armor of the Tampa 2 is its vulnerability to deep seam routes between the safeties and flood formations that expose the far side of an isolated zone.

Both of those weaknesses can be countered with zone blitzes (a natural evolution of the Tampa 2) and zones disguised with man alignment.

Good points. Good discussion.

The deep seam was where Brent Jones made a living. He read it very well and forced teams to make adjustments.

I like what Mike McCarthy did against Dick LeBeau. He used bunch formations very well and virtually took Polamalu out of the game.

Good chess match stuff...

The TE Seam was what killed our late 90's cover 2 with Favre and those two TE's. It also didn't allow to put 8 in the box and was able to be run on.