Crabtree, Morgan, and the West Coast Offense

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Well... after Alex, Rossum, Jennings, Roman, Battle, I guess Morgan is gonna be the next 49er to crucify.

in his defense let me throw out some numbers. This year Morgan caught nearly 700 yards as our #2 WR and #3 Receiver

As a #2 wide receiver that ranks him 12th in the league in total yards
As a #3 receiver (includes TE) he ranks 2nd in the league

Statistically speaking (in total yards) this year he outperformed all of Raiders, Panthers and Rams receivers as our #3.

He outperformed the #2 recievers on the following teams: Bills Falcons Bears Browns Packers Texans Vikings Chiefs Seahawks.

I think you guys are looking at the problem the wrong way. Morgan is doing fine as our #3 receiver, Davis is doing fantastic as our #1 WR considering he's a TE. Where we are failing Crabtree. he should be putting numbers up in the 1000-1100 range yet he's around 750.

How are we failing at Crabtree when he had 55 catches for over 700 yards in a run first offense AS THE 2ND OPTION? That means, if he was the 1st option, he is easily at the 1,000 yard mark and if we were in a pass heavy offense he reaches that 1,000 yard mark as well.

Some may even argue he really wasn't a "fair" 2nd option due to how many quick RB swing passes we used but that's up for debate somewhere else.

Crabtree is just fine. Once he is there for the whole off-season (expecting him to go through it this year, pre-season and all) AND coached up a little bit (Vernon has Hoener who has done a great job, Crabtree has Sullivan who sucks and always has sucked) AND put in a position to succeed (BALANCED offense) Crabtree will be just fine.

We run a 2 TE, RB, FB, 1 WR as our base offense in which Morgan gets the nod as the 1 WR the majority of the time because of his blocking so NO, we are not "failing" at Crabtree

It is too late at night to start a big discussion but Hoener has NOT done a good job with Davis. In addition to taking him almost four years to begin to realize a portion of his potential, Hoener STILL has not taught him the most basic components of the #1 job of a TE in a passing offense.

Davis was extremely RAW when he came out of college so of course it will take some time. Then he was hard-headed on top of that, not a good combination. Now Davis is a pro-bowl TE back to back years I'd say Hoener has done a pretty decent job. WAY more than Sullivan has EVER done and Crabtree was a Top Talent that won the Biletnikoff award in the only two seasons he was in college and Sullivan can't do ANYTHING at all with that? Are you kdding me? Crabtree makes plays in our poor system with our poor QB's (all 3 of them) off PURE talent alone. Give him some proper coaching and a DECENT system, and he will flourish.

VD running up the seem on play action!!! o HELL YEAH! Finally we can replace morris with a better blocking fb!!!!

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Well... after Alex, Rossum, Jennings, Roman, Battle, I guess Morgan is gonna be the next 49er to crucify.

in his defense let me throw out some numbers. This year Morgan caught nearly 700 yards as our #2 WR and #3 Receiver

As a #2 wide receiver that ranks him 12th in the league in total yards
As a #3 receiver (includes TE) he ranks 2nd in the league

Statistically speaking (in total yards) this year he outperformed all of Raiders, Panthers and Rams receivers as our #3.

He outperformed the #2 recievers on the following teams: Bills Falcons Bears Browns Packers Texans Vikings Chiefs Seahawks.

I think you guys are looking at the problem the wrong way. Morgan is doing fine as our #3 receiver, Davis is doing fantastic as our #1 WR considering he's a TE. Where we are failing Crabtree. he should be putting numbers up in the 1000-1100 range yet he's around 750.

How are we failing at Crabtree when he had 55 catches for over 700 yards in a run first offense AS THE 2ND OPTION? That means, if he was the 1st option, he is easily at the 1,000 yard mark and if we were in a pass heavy offense he reaches that 1,000 yard mark as well.

Some may even argue he really wasn't a "fair" 2nd option due to how many quick RB swing passes we used but that's up for debate somewhere else.

Crabtree is just fine. Once he is there for the whole off-season (expecting him to go through it this year, pre-season and all) AND coached up a little bit (Vernon has Hoener who has done a great job, Crabtree has Sullivan who sucks and always has sucked) AND put in a position to succeed (BALANCED offense) Crabtree will be just fine.

We run a 2 TE, RB, FB, 1 WR as our base offense in which Morgan gets the nod as the 1 WR the majority of the time because of his blocking so NO, we are not "failing" at Crabtree

It is too late at night to start a big discussion but Hoener has NOT done a good job with Davis. In addition to taking him almost four years to begin to realize a portion of his potential, Hoener STILL has not taught him the most basic components of the #1 job of a TE in a passing offense.

Davis was extremely RAW when he came out of college so of course it will take some time. Then he was hard-headed on top of that, not a good combination. Now Davis is a pro-bowl TE back to back years I'd say Hoener has done a pretty decent job. WAY more than Sullivan has EVER done and Crabtree was a Top Talent that won the Biletnikoff award in the only two seasons he was in college and Sullivan can't do ANYTHING at all with that? Are you kdding me? Crabtree makes plays in our poor system with our poor QB's (all 3 of them) off PURE talent alone. Give him some proper coaching and a DECENT system, and he will flourish.

I agree with you about Crabtree, but Vernon Davis became a good TE when Singletary forced him to pull his head out of his ass and start working. Hoehner didn't have as much to do with it.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

...until he went to Jacksonville

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Well... after Alex, Rossum, Jennings, Roman, Battle, I guess Morgan is gonna be the next 49er to crucify.

in his defense let me throw out some numbers. This year Morgan caught nearly 700 yards as our #2 WR and #3 Receiver

As a #2 wide receiver that ranks him 12th in the league in total yards
As a #3 receiver (includes TE) he ranks 2nd in the league

Statistically speaking (in total yards) this year he outperformed all of Raiders, Panthers and Rams receivers as our #3.

He outperformed the #2 recievers on the following teams: Bills Falcons Bears Browns Packers Texans Vikings Chiefs Seahawks.

I think you guys are looking at the problem the wrong way. Morgan is doing fine as our #3 receiver, Davis is doing fantastic as our #1 WR considering he's a TE. Where we are failing Crabtree. he should be putting numbers up in the 1000-1100 range yet he's around 750.

How are we failing at Crabtree when he had 55 catches for over 700 yards in a run first offense AS THE 2ND OPTION? That means, if he was the 1st option, he is easily at the 1,000 yard mark and if we were in a pass heavy offense he reaches that 1,000 yard mark as well.

Some may even argue he really wasn't a "fair" 2nd option due to how many quick RB swing passes we used but that's up for debate somewhere else.

Crabtree is just fine. Once he is there for the whole off-season (expecting him to go through it this year, pre-season and all) AND coached up a little bit (Vernon has Hoener who has done a great job, Crabtree has Sullivan who sucks and always has sucked) AND put in a position to succeed (BALANCED offense) Crabtree will be just fine.

We run a 2 TE, RB, FB, 1 WR as our base offense in which Morgan gets the nod as the 1 WR the majority of the time because of his blocking so NO, we are not "failing" at Crabtree

It is too late at night to start a big discussion but Hoener has NOT done a good job with Davis. In addition to taking him almost four years to begin to realize a portion of his potential, Hoener STILL has not taught him the most basic components of the #1 job of a TE in a passing offense.

Davis was extremely RAW when he came out of college so of course it will take some time. Then he was hard-headed on top of that, not a good combination. Now Davis is a pro-bowl TE back to back years I'd say Hoener has done a pretty decent job. WAY more than Sullivan has EVER done and Crabtree was a Top Talent that won the Biletnikoff award in the only two seasons he was in college and Sullivan can't do ANYTHING at all with that? Are you kdding me? Crabtree makes plays in our poor system with our poor QB's (all 3 of them) off PURE talent alone. Give him some proper coaching and a DECENT system, and he will flourish.

I agree with you about Crabtree, but Vernon Davis became a good TE when Singletary forced him to pull his head out of his ass and start working. Hoehner didn't have as much to do with it.

Or maybe Hoehner is a good coach but Davis was too young and arrogant that he didn't pay any attention to him, who knows all that does matter is that he is a beast now right!!!!

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
VD running up the seem on play action!!! o HELL YEAH! Finally we can replace morris with a better blocking fb!!!!

I still think we don't use VD right or enough. Harbaugh will fix that. He's a brilliant offensive mind. He won't keep VD in to block like NoWin and Dingleberry. Those guys were clueless on how to exploit the VD matchup problem for other teams.

Originally posted by NickV:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

...until he went to Jacksonville

Originally posted by NickV:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

...until he went to Jacksonville

I'm sorry, I must have missed his game-breaking speed en route to his 11 catch, 250 yard, 1 TD season. That TD, which happened to be the longest catch of his career, was under 50-yards and he burned a safety to get it.

I'm not saying he isn't fast, but let's not act like he is a burner along the lines of DeSean Jackson or something.

[ Edited by 49erRider on Jan 7, 2011 at 23:20:22 ]

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
VD running up the seem on play action!!! o HELL YEAH! Finally we can replace morris with a better blocking fb!!!!

I still think we don't use VD right or enough. Harbaugh will fix that. He's a brilliant offensive mind. He won't keep VD in to block like NoWin and Dingleberry. Those guys were clueless on how to exploit the VD matchup problem for other teams.

Not only that, D. Walker will have a really big role. Stanford used TE's all over the place. Im excited to see the creativity of our offense.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
VD running up the seem on play action!!! o HELL YEAH! Finally we can replace morris with a better blocking fb!!!!

I still think we don't use VD right or enough. Harbaugh will fix that. He's a brilliant offensive mind. He won't keep VD in to block like NoWin and Dingleberry. Those guys were clueless on how to exploit the VD matchup problem for other teams.

I swear, if VD had been used correctly, he would have had 100 catches the past 2 years. No doubt in my mind. No longer will we be trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. Harbaugh already said we will use the WCO, but a variation of it that will fit OUR PLAYERS STRENGTHS.

I hope that for once, you too are happy, SD.

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by NickV:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

...until he went to Jacksonville

We never did know how to use him. We had an idiot HC developing him. That's how you use a guy with speed. But whatever. Now we have a real HC for the first time in a long time.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
VD running up the seem on play action!!! o HELL YEAH! Finally we can replace morris with a better blocking fb!!!!

I still think we don't use VD right or enough. Harbaugh will fix that. He's a brilliant offensive mind. He won't keep VD in to block like NoWin and Dingleberry. Those guys were clueless on how to exploit the VD matchup problem for other teams.

I swear, if VD had been used correctly, he would have had 100 catches the past 2 years. No doubt in my mind. No longer will we be trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. Harbaugh already said we will use the WCO, but a variation of it that will fit OUR PLAYERS STRENGTHS.

I hope that for once, you too are happy, SD.

He would have 1,200 yards and 15 TD's if we used him right.

And I am happy at least about Harbaugh. You want to see SD smile. Here you go....

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by NickV:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

...until he went to Jacksonville

We never did know how to use him. We had an idiot HC developing him. That's how you use a guy with speed. But whatever. Now we have a real HC for the first time in a long time.

True. I don't know if Hill would've ever been anything or not.. we have no idea.

In those six games with Jax, he only averaged 40 yards per game. Nothing special.

We should drop Morgan and sign james jones from the packers if they elect not to resign him or get Jason Hill back if possible.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by NickV:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Slash49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

...until he went to Jacksonville

We never did know how to use him. We had an idiot HC developing him. That's how you use a guy with speed. But whatever. Now we have a real HC for the first time in a long time.

True. I don't know if Hill would've ever been anything or not.. we have no idea.

In those six games with Jax, he only averaged 40 yards per game. Nothing special.

40 * 16 = 640 yards... More than we got out of him. There is talent there. We just didn't know how to use it. NoWin + Dingleberry is about as bad of offensive minds as you can find.