Kawakami: Alex Smith is Good Just In Time to Play Somewhere Else

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I back you up 100% Cedder. This franchise has a long history of making desparate, panicky decisions that turn out to be poorly thought out.

Consider: The franchise throws their No. 1 d/c on the trash heap, then give a high No. 1 to PHIL for Kolb, whose good stats might be somewhat the result of playing in a skilled, stable offense.

This seems similar to paying $1M for a promising young racehorse, then placing him in the hands of a local yokel trainer. Disappointed, we consider the horse a bust and send him to the glue factory. Then we go out and buy another $1M young racehorse and put him in the hands of the same miserable trainer. Really dumb.

Seems like a strawman argument here.

1.) Kolb should only be traded for if the price is right; nothing more
2.) No need to put a label on Alex (bust, etc.); for a variety of reasons, we just didn't win with him
3.) If the new coach is the same or no better than the last 4, you'd be correct REGARDLESS of who plays QB

I'm of the opinion that we need to start fresh at both the head coaching position AND at the QB position. No need for blame or finding fault or pointing fingers...it just didn't work for all involved. Ownership needs to insist on bringing in a real GM, who can then hire a real head coach (Gruden/Harbaugh should be at the top of the list) who can then coach up a QB the way he's supposed to be coached up.

Start with a clean slate and rebuild the soul of the franchise from the top down just like Eddie D did.

I keep banging my head against this wall of trying to come up with some scenario where the 49ers are able to save a draft choice by keeping Alex.

I know what I would like to see happen, and that is that he would just continue his high level of play over the past 5 games (minus the fumble) through the next four. If that happened, there would be a playoff game as well. That would constitute a 10 game stretch of quality football and allow the 49ers to wait until the 2nd round or later to pick Stanzi or another QB.

I just hate the idea that they would be compelled to use a 1st OR a 2nd for a QB. I want a CB and/or a pass rusher but I also know the QB need must be solved.

*end of vent*

Just as I had stated in a previous post, I think A. Smith is gone after this season no matter what. Therefore I really hope that the next coach knows what he is doing, because it'll be tough to find a decent QB without going into a bidding war (too many teams need a decent starter next year.)

Yep, the cost of poor coaching is severe. As Clark Judge said yesterday, "when you miss on the #1 overall pick in the draft, it sets your franchise back 5 years..."

It doesn't really matter why anymore. The team can't ignore the QB position in one of the first two picks, even if Alex stays.

Of course it wouldn't be a terrible situation to have Alex stay and do a good job and then have a young guy come in and develop well. In this league, nothing has trade value like a QB. Just look at Philly.

But seriously...after all he's gone through here, why on God's green earth would Alex re-sign knowing that we're grooming his replacement? The only reason he stays here is if we financially commit to him as the long-term answer at starter, and I simply can't see that happening.

Point being, I think it's over between the 49ers and Alex Smith.

I agree with the bold. I have written that here several times. I don't think he stays unless he just flat lights it up from here on in and a new coach fully commits to him - which I don't see happening. The only way I could see him staying is if AZ or Seattle are not interested and his only choices were places like Buffalo, Carolina and Minnesota. I can't see him living in any of those. In that case he might agree to stay.

This train has left the station...and Alex was on it.

Totally agree...but I could also see him signing somewhere as a backup/heir apparent. He's young enough to sit for awhile and learn the right way to play the position; that might do him a world of good. As we talked about before, San Diego is the most obvious choice in that scenario; that allows him to work under his old mentor Turner while being the under-study to Rivers. Sign for a few years, get into a few games here and there, rebuild your reputation and maybe sign a bigger deal down the road.

Indy is also an option, as is Houston or even KC (who has struggled when Cassel has been out).

Isn't Phillip Rivers like 2-3 years older than Smith? He'd be sitting for another 5-7 years then become a starter at 31? Doubt it.

If he's goes to a team where he has to possibly sit...it's going to be a team where the QB is aging.

New England (they run the shotgun over 60% of the time)
Indy (Learn from Peyton, work with Tom Moore..nuff said)
Cleveland (Delhomme is old, and Smith would compete with McCoy)
Cincy (Palmer is done and they have no one else)
Tennessee (doubt they keep VY after the drama...so Smith would back up Collins)
Washington (McNabb isn't getting younger or better)
Dallas (They need a quality back up)
Minnesota (compete against Tavaris)
Seattle (Hasselbeck could be done this year if not next)
Oakland (yeah...it's Oakland)


The only team I see him starting IMMEDIATELY is Arizona.

I didn't say Smith would sit behind Rivers for 5+ years. I said he would/should sign to become Rivers backup for a few years (see bolded above), giving him a chance to learn the game the right way, with a real offensive mind and behind a pro-bowl QB. After a few years, he could sign elsewhere and be in a much better position to start/succeed.

IMO, signing to start for another bad team will not be in his best interest. Also, going to a situation like Oakland (QB carousel) would not be smart. However, some of the other teams you noted do make sense as well.

Originally posted by mustangmele:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by nickbradley:
Notorious Smith-Hater Kawakami says that Alex Smith is turning it on as a mature quarterback just in time to go play elsewhere...his argument is why would anyone want to stay with this franchise?

I really, REALLY don't want to see Alex Smith throw for 4,000 yards in Minnesota next year...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2010/12/12/alex-smith-the-return-2/

Dude has 2 300 yard games in 6 years, trust me he's not throwing for 4000 yards.

Even if he does who cares, let him be Minnesota's problem.

I know that bothers me too a little. But here's the thing I try and remember... Nolan and Singletary's philosophies. They were both defensive minded and when it came to the offense they leaned towards being conservative. Not too mention all the different OC's (I really hate bringing that up b/c it's like beating a dead horse).

They real question is does Alex Smith have the ability to have a 300+ game? Of course. He did it in college and he's done it in the pros.

alex would of had a 300+ game last week against seahawks if it wasn't a blowout in the first half maybe even 400+.

Originally posted by Natewillis2252:

Originally posted by mustangmele:
I'm telling you right now, if Alex goes somewhere else and starts he'll probably do a pretty decent job and you're going to see a lot of people on this board whinning and complaining. I could see it happening. I've never seen QB in niners history set up for failure like him. But hey, that's the real world.

I'd love if Alex finishes strong and they retain him and then draft a QB in the first or secod round and let the best man win the job. Sort of what San Diego did with Brees and Rivers. Alex is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs at this point in his career. People don't give him enough credit for those long drives he pulled off earlier in the season only for some receiver to fumble or screw it up somehow.

Where i agree with most of what you said......lets not forget that AS F@!&@ up a lot of those drives too.

Alex screwed up maybe 3 of those drives on his own. That's really "a lot" of drives ain't it.

~Ceadder

At this point I'm willing to accept the fact Alex won't be back and will go somewhere else and become a stud. If we don't make the playoffs (which means we would have to lose 2 of our last 3 games) I'm sure he's gone. If we get to the playoffs and win a game he gets a new lease on life regardless of the coach.

we almost have to keep bringing Smith back, at least as a backup, to avoid the embarrassment of him leaving and playing well with someone else.

It would prove how awful of a franchise we currently are, and our total inability to develop QB talent.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I back you up 100% Cedder. This franchise has a long history of making desparate, panicky decisions that turn out to be poorly thought out.

Consider: The franchise throws their No. 1 d/c on the trash heap, then give a high No. 1 to PHIL for Kolb, whose good stats might be somewhat the result of playing in a skilled, stable offense.

This seems similar to paying $1M for a promising young racehorse, then placing him in the hands of a local yokel trainer. Disappointed, we consider the horse a bust and send him to the glue factory. Then we go out and buy another $1M young racehorse and put him in the hands of the same miserable trainer. Really dumb.

It's all about results... we thought we were getting a top QB. We got a dud. Time to cut our losses and move on. And the coaching staff will be all different next year, so your point about "the same miserable trainer" is off.

You don't get a "top QB" from the draft. You BUILD a top QB from the Draft. You take him and mold him to what you want. Hence the reason Alex is where Alex is. Nolan didn't do anything right with the guy. Meyers even gave Nolan and everyone in the NFL the blueprint for bringing Alex along.

Did anyone from this Coaching staff listen? Maybe Norv did, but who knows until one or both men say. The only dud I saw in the last 6 years(~4 actually) was the Coaching staff who are supposedly professionals. Maybe Johnson has worked well with the guy, but you cannot tell me there are more than one or two coaches that did anything right. Martz just talked out his ass. No way Hill has the tools over Smith. Martz just dumbed down the Playbook. Not dissin Hill, I knew what he was before he played last Season. Maybe if this staff had some imagination he would have done more. Like Detroit is getting some positive production from him. In any event had our team had the imagination and the stones to carry it out both Smith and Hill would probably have done better here. So much so we'd only be drafting a QB to take the QB3 spot on the chart. I really don't know why we rarely if ever see Alex roll out on a naked bootleg. Like he did against the Sh!tbirds when Norv was OC. We can build off plays like that. Like going to the Back crossfield. Or completing the exchange and faking roll right to Receive(MRob would have been a solid option here, freakin Morons we got as Coaches) Or reverse or something really sneaky. But nope we have a coaching staff that wants to keep things close. It would be bad form on our part to keep the Opposing Defense guessing.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by mustangmele:
I'm telling you right now, if Alex goes somewhere else and starts he'll probably do a pretty decent job and you're going to see a lot of people on this board whinning and complaining. I could see it happening. I've never seen QB in niners history set up for failure like him. But hey, that's the real world.

I'd love if Alex finishes strong and they retain him and then draft a QB in the first or secod round and let the best man win the job. Sort of what San Diego did with Brees and Rivers. Alex is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs at this point in his career. People don't give him enough credit for those long drives he pulled off earlier in the season only for some receiver to fumble or screw it up somehow.

Agreed with all of this. I think the problem is that too many people let their hatred of Alex blind them to the lack of pragmatic solutions. These are the people who first convinced themselves that we should have signed McNabb because "anyone is better!!" despite Alex playing much better than McNabb this year, then convincing themselves that Brady or Manning were going to be free agents, then that Nate Davis was just waiting to be a pro-bowler despite spending all year on our practice squad with 31 other teams not even interested in rostering him, then that Troy Smith was a hidden pro-bowler and not that same guy with accuracy problems who can't make reads in an NFL offense that he's always been, then that Kolb could be a savior despite not even being able to perform in the most QB friendly offense since Bill Walsh, then that the Eagles are going to let Vick go after a pro-bowl year, now that are holding out for some pipe dream that Luck will come out and we could get him (impossible), or that throwing in a rookie QB will be better for next year or for whoever that guy is in the long term (probably wrong on both counts). It's fine to say Alex has been mediocre (even a bust, given where he was drafted), he has been both of those things, but letting your anger about that cloud any semblance of the basic understanding of realistic other options to transition is kinda pathetic.

Alex would be a very good steward next year as we move in a new direction. The problem is he has NO REASON whatsoever to want to play that role. He's been d*cked around here by two different coaches over six years. When Crabtree lets another pass bounce off his hands the fans boo Alex Smith. The only people in the NFL who don't think he's somewhere between a mediocre and good quarterback are 49ers fans. He has to leave. He should leave. Him being a steward next year might be our best option, but the fans have played an active role in ensuring that won't happen.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by mustangmele:
I'm telling you right now, if Alex goes somewhere else and starts he'll probably do a pretty decent job and you're going to see a lot of people on this board whinning and complaining. I could see it happening. I've never seen QB in niners history set up for failure like him. But hey, that's the real world.

I'd love if Alex finishes strong and they retain him and then draft a QB in the first or secod round and let the best man win the job. Sort of what San Diego did with Brees and Rivers. Alex is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs at this point in his career. People don't give him enough credit for those long drives he pulled off earlier in the season only for some receiver to fumble or screw it up somehow.

Agreed with all of this. I think the problem is that too many people let their hatred of Alex blind them to the lack of pragmatic solutions. These are the people who first convinced themselves that we should have signed McNabb because "anyone is better!!" despite Alex playing much better than McNabb this year, then convincing themselves that Brady or Manning were going to be free agents, then that Nate Davis was just waiting to be a pro-bowler despite spending all year on our practice squad with 31 other teams not even interested in rostering him, then that Troy Smith was a hidden pro-bowler and not that same guy with accuracy problems who can't make reads in an NFL offense that he's always been, then that Kolb could be a savior despite not even being able to perform in the most QB friendly offense since Bill Walsh, then that the Eagles are going to let Vick go after a pro-bowl year, now that are holding out for some pipe dream that Luck will come out and we could get him (impossible), or that throwing in a rookie QB will be better for next year or for whoever that guy is in the long term (probably wrong on both counts). It's fine to say Alex has been mediocre (even a bust, given where he was drafted), he has been both of those things, but letting your anger about that cloud any semblance of the basic understanding of realistic other options to transition is kinda pathetic.

Alex would be a very good steward next year as we move in a new direction. The problem is he has NO REASON whatsoever to want to play that role. He's been d*cked around here by two different coaches over six years. When Crabtree lets another pass bounce off his hands the fans boo Alex Smith. The only people in the NFL who don't think he's somewhere between a mediocre and good quarterback are 49ers fans. He has to leave. He should leave. Him being a steward next year might be our best option, but the fans have played an active role in ensuring that won't happen.

A lot of truth and insight in your post.

Smith critics fall into one of three groups, IMO.

1. Those who don't know enough about football to understand that when the guy with the ball fails, the blame may well rest on others.

2. Those who see his lack of development and inconsistency yet do not take a large portion of the blame back to the coaching staff whose job it is to correct those issues.

3. Trolls who just like to stir up the pot.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by mustangmele:
I'm telling you right now, if Alex goes somewhere else and starts he'll probably do a pretty decent job and you're going to see a lot of people on this board whinning and complaining. I could see it happening. I've never seen QB in niners history set up for failure like him. But hey, that's the real world.

I'd love if Alex finishes strong and they retain him and then draft a QB in the first or secod round and let the best man win the job. Sort of what San Diego did with Brees and Rivers. Alex is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs at this point in his career. People don't give him enough credit for those long drives he pulled off earlier in the season only for some receiver to fumble or screw it up somehow.

Agreed with all of this. I think the problem is that too many people let their hatred of Alex blind them to the lack of pragmatic solutions. These are the people who first convinced themselves that we should have signed McNabb because "anyone is better!!" despite Alex playing much better than McNabb this year, then convincing themselves that Brady or Manning were going to be free agents, then that Nate Davis was just waiting to be a pro-bowler despite spending all year on our practice squad with 31 other teams not even interested in rostering him, then that Troy Smith was a hidden pro-bowler and not that same guy with accuracy problems who can't make reads in an NFL offense that he's always been, then that Kolb could be a savior despite not even being able to perform in the most QB friendly offense since Bill Walsh, then that the Eagles are going to let Vick go after a pro-bowl year, now that are holding out for some pipe dream that Luck will come out and we could get him (impossible), or that throwing in a rookie QB will be better for next year or for whoever that guy is in the long term (probably wrong on both counts). It's fine to say Alex has been mediocre (even a bust, given where he was drafted), he has been both of those things, but letting your anger about that cloud any semblance of the basic understanding of realistic other options to transition is kinda pathetic.

Alex would be a very good steward next year as we move in a new direction. The problem is he has NO REASON whatsoever to want to play that role. He's been d*cked around here by two different coaches over six years. When Crabtree lets another pass bounce off his hands the fans boo Alex Smith. The only people in the NFL who don't think he's somewhere between a mediocre and good quarterback are 49ers fans. He has to leave. He should leave. Him being a steward next year might be our best option, but the fans have played an active role in ensuring that won't happen.

A lot of truth and insight in your post.

Smith critics fall into one of three groups, IMO.

1. Those who don't know enough about football to understand that when the guy with the ball fails, the blame may well rest on others.

2. Those who see his lack of development and inconsistency yet do not take a large portion of the blame back to the coaching staff whose job it is to correct those issues.

3. Trolls who just like to stir up the pot.

4. (or 2A.) Those who see his lack of development and inconsistency, take a large portion of the blame back to the coaching staff whose job it is to correct those issues, but also recognize that certain aspects of his play (like his throwing accuracy) are not at the level it should be if he truly had the natural ability and talent as expected from his player evaluation and draft status.

We can blame the revolving door of OCs, poor offensive gameplanning and creativity, on Alex's confusion and general tentativeness out there, but at some point in time, we have to stop blaming the coaches for other things that Alex is still mediocre or inconsistent such as accuracy and touch of short passes. No matter who his coach is, I bet they all preach the same things and all the same general techniques, and all have seen him through hours and hours of practice and throwing reps, but in the end, either you have that talent to be consistently accurate by the high standards of the NFL passing game or you don't. The coaches can only take it so far but it is Alex's natural ability that has to take it to that average to above average level.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by mustangmele:
I'm telling you right now, if Alex goes somewhere else and starts he'll probably do a pretty decent job and you're going to see a lot of people on this board whinning and complaining. I could see it happening. I've never seen QB in niners history set up for failure like him. But hey, that's the real world.

I'd love if Alex finishes strong and they retain him and then draft a QB in the first or secod round and let the best man win the job. Sort of what San Diego did with Brees and Rivers. Alex is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs at this point in his career. People don't give him enough credit for those long drives he pulled off earlier in the season only for some receiver to fumble or screw it up somehow.

Agreed with all of this. I think the problem is that too many people let their hatred of Alex blind them to the lack of pragmatic solutions. These are the people who first convinced themselves that we should have signed McNabb because "anyone is better!!" despite Alex playing much better than McNabb this year, then convincing themselves that Brady or Manning were going to be free agents, then that Nate Davis was just waiting to be a pro-bowler despite spending all year on our practice squad with 31 other teams not even interested in rostering him, then that Troy Smith was a hidden pro-bowler and not that same guy with accuracy problems who can't make reads in an NFL offense that he's always been, then that Kolb could be a savior despite not even being able to perform in the most QB friendly offense since Bill Walsh, then that the Eagles are going to let Vick go after a pro-bowl year, now that are holding out for some pipe dream that Luck will come out and we could get him (impossible), or that throwing in a rookie QB will be better for next year or for whoever that guy is in the long term (probably wrong on both counts). It's fine to say Alex has been mediocre (even a bust, given where he was drafted), he has been both of those things, but letting your anger about that cloud any semblance of the basic understanding of realistic other options to transition is kinda pathetic.

Alex would be a very good steward next year as we move in a new direction. The problem is he has NO REASON whatsoever to want to play that role. He's been d*cked around here by two different coaches over six years. When Crabtree lets another pass bounce off his hands the fans boo Alex Smith. The only people in the NFL who don't think he's somewhere between a mediocre and good quarterback are 49ers fans. He has to leave. He should leave. Him being a steward next year might be our best option, but the fans have played an active role in ensuring that won't happen.

A lot of truth and insight in your post.

Smith critics fall into one of three groups, IMO.

1. Those who don't know enough about football to understand that when the guy with the ball fails, the blame may well rest on others.

2. Those who see his lack of development and inconsistency yet do not take a large portion of the blame back to the coaching staff whose job it is to correct those issues.

3. Trolls who just like to stir up the pot.

4. (or 2A.) Those who see his lack of development and inconsistency, take a large portion of the blame back to the coaching staff whose job it is to correct those issues, but also recognize that certain aspects of his play (like his throwing accuracy) are not at the level it should be if he truly had the natural ability and talent as expected from his player evaluation and draft status.

We can blame the revolving door of OCs, poor offensive gameplanning and creativity, on Alex's confusion and general tentativeness out there, but at some point in time, we have to stop blaming the coaches for other things that Alex is still mediocre or inconsistent such as accuracy and touch of short passes. No matter who his coach is, I bet they all preach the same things and all the same general techniques, and all have seen him through hours and hours of practice and throwing reps, but in the end, either you have that talent to be consistently accurate by the high standards of the NFL passing game or you don't. The coaches can only take it so far but it is Alex's natural ability that has to take it to that average to above average level.

Fair enough but even there, reports from practices and training camp show that the emphasis is on "getting the plays put in" rather than running a play until it is done very well.

I remember a Steve Young comment about Bill Walsh who insisted that things be perfect. He recalled how Walsh made Steve and Montana throw a swing pass 20 times if they had to, until until the ball hit the back on his LEAD hand, not just on the numbers. I used to live in Roseville, just 10 minutes from Sierra College where the 49ers practiced at the time. Practices were fully open to the public and I saw a lot of them. I SAW Walsh re-run plays until each person did their job correctly. If somebody didn't do it right, they ran it again...and again. It was just the way it was done.

I just don't believe that a guy who has the talent to get to this level cannot learn to do that through repetition and practice. I just don't. I've also spent enough time on a practice field running practices that I KNOW that if the coach is not willing to run things until they are done correctly in practice, they will not be done correctly in a game. So when I see so many other offensive failings of this entire Nolan/Singletary era, I am inclined to cut Smith more slack than some others might.

That, plus what I saw under Turner, and the change Johnson has made, tell me that it is a lot more than just Alex Smith and whether or not he is accurate. The guy has a good arm and good athleticism. The rest can be taught if the coach knows what he is doing. The 49ers have not.

i think alex is a good guy, but F**K this! no more smith!! this is as good as he gets in the pros!! he is at his peak of his career right now! that's a low ceiling we need a true super star at qb!!

Originally posted by hb123:
i think alex is a good guy, but F**K this! no more smith!! this is as good as he gets in the pros!! he is at his peak of his career right now! that's a low ceiling we need a true super star at qb!!

28 other NFL teams are saying the same thing.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by hb123:
i think alex is a good guy, but F**K this! no more smith!! this is as good as he gets in the pros!! he is at his peak of his career right now! that's a low ceiling we need a true super star at qb!!

28 other NFL teams are saying the same thing.

if those other 28 teams jump off a cliff, we wanna not do that.. so lets not be like those other 28 teams and find a true qb!

Originally posted by hb123:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by hb123:
i think alex is a good guy, but F**K this! no more smith!! this is as good as he gets in the pros!! he is at his peak of his career right now! that's a low ceiling we need a true super star at qb!!

28 other NFL teams are saying the same thing.

if those other 28 teams jump off a cliff, we wanna not do that.. so lets not be like those other 28 teams and find a true qb!

I was only suggesting that if we are all waiting for Joe Montana reincarnate, we may not live to see it.

On another level, looking around the league, other than the obvious top 4, Brady, Peyton, Rivers and Brees, with Vick waiting to be anointed, who would make you happy as the 49er QB?

I'm just curious as to your standard.

Originally posted by dj43:


if those other 28 teams jump off a cliff, we wanna not do that.. so lets not be like those other 28 teams and find a true qb!

I was only suggesting that if we are all waiting for Joe Montana reincarnate, we may not live to see it.
On another level, looking around the league, other than the obvious top 4, Brady, Peyton, Rivers and Brees, with Vick waiting to be anointed, who would make you happy as the 49er QB?

I'm just curious as to your standard. I think Rogers, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, Bradford, Stafford, etc, are making their teams pretty happy. Hall of Famers - maybe not - but all good enough to win. So, maybe only 20 or so teams are dying for a qb