The loss of Eric Heitmann

Losing Heitmann has contributed to the lack of coordination in the OL. As others have said, Baas has played better than expected but his blocking calls appear to have left line mates confused at times.

I don't recall which team it was but I recall they had a rookie playing center and moved the previous center to guard where he called the blocking assignments. It seemed to be working well. That would have been a great way to solve the RG problems if EH had been healthy enough to do it.

Let's hope his neck injury allows him to come back next year. Those things have a way of not going away.

Heitman and Staley. Plus Dingleberry keeping Rachal in.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Veteran leadership is lacking, and Heitmann was the perennial team captain, so I agree with your premise. And, while Baas has been better than expected at center, the team is struggling to run up the gut, which was supposedly Baas' strength. Gore ran better in the past through the heart of the line, especially in 2006, 2007 and 2008.

There is no doubt that any subtraction of Rachal from the starting lineup, whether from Baas or Heitmann starting would have been a big plus, from the quality of play at RG to the assistance in the development of Anthony Davis.

Hopefully, with a new coaching staff, the team can do a thorough evaluation of the interior OL positions, and get this OL back together. It is currently a mess.

I agree that we lack veteran leadership on that line. Baas is the oldest guy at 29 and he's not even been a starter at center (in the NFL) before this year.

I think the struggles running up the gut have more to do with the predictability of the play calling, though. We've run the damn "Power O" right to death. Defenses plug that B gap and pinch A.Davis and Rachal (which is not hard to do with Rachal). I don't see us running in the A gap much except in short yardage situations.

Are you seeing us run that gap more? Am I nutters for thinking we run "Power O" behind Iupati pulling on like 70% of run plays? It feels like it's that much, anyway. I can't get stats for that, as it's been concluded that runs to the "middle" are statistically equivalent whether it's A or B gap. It's all middle, outside tackle, and stretch sideline.

Baas has been a good blocker, though. Would he be better used at RG with Heitmann at C? I think that might be true. Same reason I'd rather have Snyder in at RG than Rachal. I see A.Davis playing better whenever I see Snyder in at RG. I think it'd be the same with Baas there. Both those guys would help A.Davis out both with his assignments and covering his ass when he makes a mistake. Heitmann is just a technician and leader on the line, too. I don't know for sure if he'd be calling the protections better, but my guess would be that he would. Dude is one smart football player.

Have you seen and heard him play piano? You're like his biggest fan, so I'm sure you have. I bet that's the only thing he likes about being injured right now is that his fingers aren't all jacked up.

So many "What if..."s about this season.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I disagree. While heitmann has been very good Baas and Iupati have been our best linemen this year.

so basically, losing Heitmann hurt us. Baas could've been moved to RG and no more Rachel.

Baas was about a big of a liability at RG as Rachal is. Baas serves better at the Center position. When Heitmann comes back next season he can fill in the RG position so we can finally get rid of Rachal. Now if we could just do something with that scrub Anthony Davis.

Well, we could try giving this 20-year old the chance to develop. Calling him a scrub is nearly as bright as calling him a bust.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I disagree. While heitmann has been very good Baas and Iupati have been our best linemen this year.

so basically, losing Heitmann hurt us. Baas could've been moved to RG and no more Rachel.

Baas was about a big of a liability at RG as Rachal is. Baas serves better at the Center position. When Heitmann comes back next season he can fill in the RG position so we can finally get rid of Rachal. Now if we could just do something with that scrub Anthony Davis.

Well, we could try giving this 20-year old the chance to develop. Calling him a scrub is nearly as bright as calling him a bust.

He hasn't reached bust status yet but currently he is playing worse than Kwame Harris. Therefore the term scrub is more than valid and warranted. If I remember right Alex Smith was only 20 once too, look how well that turned out.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I disagree. While heitmann has been very good Baas and Iupati have been our best linemen this year.

so basically, losing Heitmann hurt us. Baas could've been moved to RG and no more Rachel.

Baas was about a big of a liability at RG as Rachal is. Baas serves better at the Center position. When Heitmann comes back next season he can fill in the RG position so we can finally get rid of Rachal. Now if we could just do something with that scrub Anthony Davis.

Davis needs to spend his offseason hanging with Alex Boone.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I disagree. While heitmann has been very good Baas and Iupati have been our best linemen this year.

so basically, losing Heitmann hurt us. Baas could've been moved to RG and no more Rachel.

Baas was about a big of a liability at RG as Rachal is. Baas serves better at the Center position. When Heitmann comes back next season he can fill in the RG position so we can finally get rid of Rachal. Now if we could just do something with that scrub Anthony Davis.

Well, we could try giving this 20-year old the chance to develop. Calling him a scrub is nearly as bright as calling him a bust.

He hasn't reached bust status yet but currently he is playing worse than Kwame Harris. Therefore the term scrub is more than valid and warranted. If I remember right Alex Smith was only 20 once too, look how well that turned out.

It would help AD develop confidence if he had more TE help. They appear to leave him on an island a lot more than he can handle. He is still a young guy trying to play in a blocking scheme that puts tremendous pressure on individuals rather than helping out with a scheme that spreads the pressure around.

At several times during the season, Gary Plummer has commented that Davis plays well enough until something goes wrong. When that happens his confidence level appears to drop and he begins to play more tentatively, which only results in even more problems.

Again, this comes back to scheme and adjustments. So many young players that seem to have talent on this team but are not developing as quickly as should otherwise be expected. I know it is a broken record but quality position coaching and scheme has done more than any other single factor in holding this team back from achieving playoff level performance.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I disagree. While heitmann has been very good Baas and Iupati have been our best linemen this year.

so basically, losing Heitmann hurt us. Baas could've been moved to RG and no more Rachel.

Baas was about a big of a liability at RG as Rachal is. Baas serves better at the Center position. When Heitmann comes back next season he can fill in the RG position so we can finally get rid of Rachal. Now if we could just do something with that scrub Anthony Davis.

Well, we could try giving this 20-year old the chance to develop. Calling him a scrub is nearly as bright as calling him a bust.

He hasn't reached bust status yet but currently he is playing worse than Kwame Harris. Therefore the term scrub is more than valid and warranted. If I remember right Alex Smith was only 20 once too, look how well that turned out.

It would help AD develop confidence if he had more TE help. They appear to leave him on an island a lot more than he can handle. He is still a young guy trying to play in a blocking scheme that puts tremendous pressure on individuals rather than helping out with a scheme that spreads the pressure around.

At several times during the season, Gary Plummer has commented that Davis plays well enough until something goes wrong. When that happens his confidence level appears to drop and he begins to play more tentatively, which only results in even more problems.

Again, this comes back to scheme and adjustments. So many young players that seem to have talent on this team but are not developing as quickly as should otherwise be expected. I know it is a broken record but quality position coaching and scheme has done more than any other single factor in holding this team back from achieving playoff level performance.

Man, this is dead ON!

Originally posted by dj43:

It would help AD develop confidence if he had more TE help. They appear to leave him on an island a lot more than he can handle. He is still a young guy trying to play in a blocking scheme that puts tremendous pressure on individuals rather than helping out with a scheme that spreads the pressure around.

At several times during the season, Gary Plummer has commented that Davis plays well enough until something goes wrong. When that happens his confidence level appears to drop and he begins to play more tentatively, which only results in even more problems.

Again, this comes back to scheme and adjustments. So many young players that seem to have talent on this team but are not developing as quickly as should otherwise be expected. I know it is a broken record but quality position coaching and scheme has done more than any other single factor in holding this team back from achieving playoff level performance.

I wonder if Singletary and Solari have ever seriously considered sliding Davis inside. I'm completely against benching him at this point because you do worry about young players with their confidence and all, but they have do something to get him some help or they run the exact same risk. I don't know what experience he's had playing inside, but it can't be any less than he had at playing RT in the pro's.

Having the luxury of being closer to the snap and the line calls as well as not having to deal with the pressure of that "island" scenario should help settle him down at the very least, and hopefully get him some confidence out there.

But then there's the scenario of who you swap in at RT. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this one, but if the purpose of sliding him inside is to help settle him down so he can start progressing then I don't think you want to put another green horn in there beside em. Snyder has the most experience at the position and while he's not great out there either, he definitely knows more about playing that spot than AD and has something to offer in the way of teaching by example. I think another positive bi-product of a move like this would be a new found appreciation/understanding on AD's part of the things his Guard needs from him when playing Tackle.

Even John Ogden slid inside his 1st year; at this point I don't think it's a bad idea in the grand scheme of things. Take some pressure off and put some knowledge right next to him. Sure as hell couldn't get much worse...I don't think

[ Edited by NatralBrnThrila on Nov 24, 2010 at 21:18:19 ]

Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:

Originally posted by dj43:

It would help AD develop confidence if he had more TE help. They appear to leave him on an island a lot more than he can handle. He is still a young guy trying to play in a blocking scheme that puts tremendous pressure on individuals rather than helping out with a scheme that spreads the pressure around.

At several times during the season, Gary Plummer has commented that Davis plays well enough until something goes wrong. When that happens his confidence level appears to drop and he begins to play more tentatively, which only results in even more problems.

Again, this comes back to scheme and adjustments. So many young players that seem to have talent on this team but are not developing as quickly as should otherwise be expected. I know it is a broken record but quality position coaching and scheme has done more than any other single factor in holding this team back from achieving playoff level performance.

I wonder if Singletary and Solari have ever seriously considered sliding Davis inside. I'm completely against benching him at this point because you do worry about young players with their confidence and all, but they have do something to get him some help or they run the exact same risk. I don't know what experience he's had playing inside, but it can't be any less than he had at playing RT in the pro's.

Having the luxury of being closer to the snap and the line calls as well as not having to deal with the pressure of that "island" scenario should help settle him down at the very least, and hopefully get him some confidence out there.

But then there's the scenario of who you swap in at RT. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this one, but if the purpose of sliding him inside is to help settle him down so he can start progressing then I don't think you want to put another green horn in there beside em. Snyder has the most experience at the position and while he's not great out there either, he definitely knows more about playing that spot than AD and has something to offer in the way of teaching by example. I think another positive bi-product of a move like this would be a new found appreciation/understanding on AD's part of the things his Guard needs from him when playing Tackle.

Even John Ogden slid inside his 1st year; at this point I don't think it's a bad idea in the grand scheme of things. Take some pressure off and put some knowledge right next to him. Sure as hell couldn't get much worse...I don't think

I'm not so sure that moving him to guard will be helpful. He has had some good games, or at least portions of games.

His issues with confidence really started in the second pre-season game when Singletary intentionally gave him very little help during the game so "he could get the feel for what it was like to play on an island." I thought that was nonsense then and still do.

He just needs a TE set next to him or a motion man coming over until he can regain his focus on the man in front of him. Right now he is having to guess between two men on most downs. Guessing is not going to help his development. Put the training wheels on for a few games and I think we'll see development.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:

Originally posted by dj43:

It would help AD develop confidence if he had more TE help. They appear to leave him on an island a lot more than he can handle. He is still a young guy trying to play in a blocking scheme that puts tremendous pressure on individuals rather than helping out with a scheme that spreads the pressure around.

At several times during the season, Gary Plummer has commented that Davis plays well enough until something goes wrong. When that happens his confidence level appears to drop and he begins to play more tentatively, which only results in even more problems.

Again, this comes back to scheme and adjustments. So many young players that seem to have talent on this team but are not developing as quickly as should otherwise be expected. I know it is a broken record but quality position coaching and scheme has done more than any other single factor in holding this team back from achieving playoff level performance.

I wonder if Singletary and Solari have ever seriously considered sliding Davis inside. I'm completely against benching him at this point because you do worry about young players with their confidence and all, but they have do something to get him some help or they run the exact same risk. I don't know what experience he's had playing inside, but it can't be any less than he had at playing RT in the pro's.

Having the luxury of being closer to the snap and the line calls as well as not having to deal with the pressure of that "island" scenario should help settle him down at the very least, and hopefully get him some confidence out there.

But then there's the scenario of who you swap in at RT. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this one, but if the purpose of sliding him inside is to help settle him down so he can start progressing then I don't think you want to put another green horn in there beside em. Snyder has the most experience at the position and while he's not great out there either, he definitely knows more about playing that spot than AD and has something to offer in the way of teaching by example. I think another positive bi-product of a move like this would be a new found appreciation/understanding on AD's part of the things his Guard needs from him when playing Tackle.

Even John Ogden slid inside his 1st year; at this point I don't think it's a bad idea in the grand scheme of things. Take some pressure off and put some knowledge right next to him. Sure as hell couldn't get much worse...I don't think

I'm not so sure that moving him to guard will be helpful. He has had some good games, or at least portions of games.

His issues with confidence really started in the second pre-season game when Singletary intentionally gave him very little help during the game so "he could get the feel for what it was like to play on an island." I thought that was nonsense then and still do.

He just needs a TE set next to him or a motion man coming over until he can regain his focus on the man in front of him. Right now he is having to guess between two men on most downs. Guessing is not going to help his development. Put the training wheels on for a few games and I think we'll see development.

Fingers crossed. They better do something; it's one thing getting embarrassed in a few games that nobody saw, but getting owned on MNF by the goddamn Cards might just put the final nail in this coffin. If they blow us out again I think I might cry...no way am I watching this game in public.

Heitman was mediocre even before he got injured.

[ Edited by Hopper on Nov 24, 2010 at 21:49:33 ]

Originally posted by Hopper:
Heitman was mediocre even before he got injured.

We had a very long thread about him. You might search for it and read it.

Bottom line: Heitmann's blocking calls were very good and his individual play was above average.

Center play is usually under-rated by fans who do not understand the value of a center is much more than just blocking. It is not an accident that OL play has been worse this year than last....but I don't have interest in re-generating another long "Heitmann is a good player" thread.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I disagree. While heitmann has been very good Baas and Iupati have been our best linemen this year.

so basically, losing Heitmann hurt us. Baas could've been moved to RG and no more Rachel.

Chilo Rachel has been the Turd in the offensive line punch bowl[/u]

Originally posted by gage:

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