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What are we saving our money for?

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Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Clearly I'm not a capologist or as informed as many of the posters on this site, so someone please tell me, what are we saving our money for? All I heard all off season is that we don’t wont to waist money on FA because we want to sign our own guys. However, "our guys" seems to mean V.Davis and P.Willy. Outside of that, the only guys we are willing to pay are role players and FAs on the cheap. Well news flash, that’s not going to get it done. You would think that if we really are holding out to sign "our guys, " we would have a really good idea who "our guys" are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't go out and give a bunch of money to Goldson and Franklin, but I'm a little annoyed we haven't extended Lawson. Sure he might cost a little more than he is worth, but so is the nature of FA. Besides, you dont get brownie points for being under the cap. Why not sign Lawson to a decent sized contract and then bring in a "real pass rusher?" If need be, let Lawson play the weak side. He's not so bad in the passrush that you can always assume he will play coverage. Bottom-line, I just don’t get why we have so many penny pinchers around here always worried about money spent when we aren't even close to hitting the cap ceiling and we clearly are missing a few pieces (passrush,cbs,saftey, wr, Qb)

Who exactly should they be spending their money on?
Lawson? OLB who doesn't pass rush very well. Yes, he's a good player, but we don't even know what his contract demands are.

Goldson? I'm not impressed.

Free Agents? Who exactly? The issue is not that the team is unwilling to spend, its that they want to spend CORRECTLY. Who was out there that the Niners SHOULD have spent big money on?

The Niners have made it a habit to build with the draft and they have awarded extensions early to the guys who panned out (Gore, Willis, Davis). The Niners have awarded big contracts in the past to Clements and Justin Smith.

You should never spend for the sake of spending. You spend when there is siomeone out there worth spending on.

Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.


I guess my biggest issue is that it feels like managment and many Zoners on here only want a player if we are "getting a deal." It's like we are so affraid that we wont get what we paid for that we don't do anything. The reality is, that only works if you are the Pats or Colts and through scheme alone you can turn average players into superstars. If anything we are the exact opposite. We need to pay for all the talent we can get because we've shown an inability to develop players. Guys like Gore and Willis would have been great regardless.
Truthfully, you can find issues with any player when they hit the FA market. By nature of the bidding process you will have to over pay, especially if you are a bottom feeder team like we've become. You ask who would I have signed. I'm not sure, but it feels like we are never in the running for marque talent (B.Marshall, Comartie, J.Taylor, Lynch, Merriman, McNabb, Haynesworth, V.Jackson) I'm not saying all those guys should be signed, but it seems like we aren't interested in anyone. Yet WINNING TEAMS like the Jets are on an FA splurge.

I give the Niners no credit for signing Davis and Willis. That can be chalked up to a no brainer PR move.

WOW. Totally disagree.

You're also kinda making my point. The players you just listed...

B.Marshall: Was a trade, not a FA. Character Issues.
Comartie: Also a trade. Character Issues.
J.Taylor: OLD and no better than what they have.
Lynch: Trade, and at a position where the Niners are STACKED.
Merriman: Wouldn't be an upgrade this season (hurt) and will be a FA after the season.
McNabb: Trade. Also has only played in the WCO...something we no longer run.
Haynesworth: Are you kidding?
V.Jackson: Again...TRADE.

Almost all of those guys were trades where you have to give up more than money. They weren't worth the picks either.

Its also not about getting a good deal (altho thats nice). Its OK to overpay at positions of great need (see Clements, Nate). That doesn't mean tho that you overpay for every player. You pick and shoose and see if its worth it to overpay.

Building a team on nothing but high priced FAs gets you the Washington Redskins. It doesn't work.

...oh, and as for the "no brainer"...thats funny. The Niners can't even get credit for making the RIGHT choices...lol. They made both moves with time left on those players contracts. They got them cheaper because they got them early. You call it a no-brainer, but MANY teams don't make the no-brainer move.

First off, I'm one of those guys that thinks draft picks over proven players are highly overrated. How has picking at the top the last eight years turned us into champions? You can say the same thing about a lot of bottom dweller teams. Willis, Davis, Gore, Iupati, A.Davis, Goldson, A.Smith, Crabtree, Lawson, Morgan and on and on are all draft picks of the Niners. Yet, we still haven't produced a winning season. Furthermore, with the exception of Willis and Gore, we had to wait years to develop these guys. So excuse me if I dont shed a tear for giving up a draft pick or two for a proven guy like Marshall or V.Jackson. Even if we pick a couple of guys up next year that are very solid, it will probably take a few years to become dominate. How big is our window for taking over the west anyway? Bottom line, I dont think there is one correct way to build a team anymore. Whether you do it through the draft or FA doesn't really matter. The salary cap and FA has changed the game.

I love when guys have nothing majorly negative to say about a players game so they default to "character issues." What are you looking for, a team full of boy scouts? A bunch of Nolan guys? All those guys I listed had produced at a high level at one time. All I'm saying is you can't be afraid to take a flyer or two at a player that may have some question marks. If they are perfect in every aspect your going to pay through the nose anyway (see Nate Clements). Just as you dont win championships trying to buy a Superbowl team, you dont win Superbowls by "bargan shopping" unless you have extrodinary coaching talent (which we dont).

P.S. No one is saying we should flood the team with high priced FAs, but I also think we've been too conservative in the FA/Trade market. We are like the Alex Smith of front offices. We play not to lose.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Signing Willis and VD is a "no-brainer." Just because there are a number of teams too dumb to do it, doesn't mean it's not obvious. It's one thing if you are a constant Superbowl contender and everyone wants to be here, but when your us, you better get those guys signed.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Nov 20, 2010 at 09:56:42 ]
  • fly15
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  • Posts: 5,790
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Originally posted by fryet:
Lawson was asking for a lot more money than he was worth this past offseason. Considering his play this season, they may be a lot closer to getting things done.

I am not sure why you are bagging on management about this, though. They did spend large amounts of money on PW and VD this season. If they had given large amounts of money based on 2009 play, then Goldson and Franklin would have gotten huge deals as well. So far, the 49ers haven't lost a single player due to money, so I think their plan has been working.

P.S. I was actually more worried that they had their starting QB on a 1 year deal. It appears at this point that it worked out for them, because he probably won't be on the team next year.

Yeah, one of the few bright spots is how player contracts have been handled the last few years. The least of our worries.
Originally posted by NorthNiner:
Originally posted by fryet:
Lawson was asking for a lot more money than he was worth this past offseason. Considering his play this season, they may be a lot closer to getting things done.

I am not sure why you are bagging on management about this, though. They did spend large amounts of money on PW and VD this season. If they had given large amounts of money based on 2009 play, then Goldson and Franklin would have gotten huge deals as well. So far, the 49ers haven't lost a single player due to money, so I think their plan has been working.

P.S. I was actually more worried that they had their starting QB on a 1 year deal. It appears at this point that it worked out for them, because he probably won't be on the team next year.

Yeah, one of the few bright spots is how player contracts have been handled the last few years. The least of our worries.

There's an old saying, "If your not cheating your not trying." Well when you struggle to go .500 for nearly a decade and are as far under the salary cap as we are it's a reasonable question to ask, how hard are we trying to compete.

I dont think the York's are cheap, but I do think they have to be money concious as they are relatively poor by NFL standards.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Nov 20, 2010 at 10:01:19 ]
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.

That move will only be a cheap move for one year. If Troy plays anything like he has been for the rest of the season he will get Alex Smith money, and I don't mean the restructured Alex Smith money.

Dude will never get #1 pick money.
We're saving our money for Homlgren. We're gonna buy out his 50 million dollar contract with Cleveland (to avoid anti-trust lawsuits encase they don't allow Holmgren to to leave/opt out of the base contract after resigning).

[ Edited by SnakePlissken on Nov 20, 2010 at 14:56:55 ]
We're saving our money for the new Jerry Rice Stadium in Santa Clara
  • Chief
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 28,272
I'm saving mine for hookers and blow.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Clearly I'm not a capologist or as informed as many of the posters on this site, so someone please tell me, what are we saving our money for? All I heard all off season is that we don’t wont to waist money on FA because we want to sign our own guys. However, "our guys" seems to mean V.Davis and P.Willy. Outside of that, the only guys we are willing to pay are role players and FAs on the cheap. Well news flash, that’s not going to get it done. You would think that if we really are holding out to sign "our guys, " we would have a really good idea who "our guys" are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't go out and give a bunch of money to Goldson and Franklin, but I'm a little annoyed we haven't extended Lawson. Sure he might cost a little more than he is worth, but so is the nature of FA. Besides, you dont get brownie points for being under the cap. Why not sign Lawson to a decent sized contract and then bring in a "real pass rusher?" If need be, let Lawson play the weak side. He's not so bad in the passrush that you can always assume he will play coverage. Bottom-line, I just don’t get why we have so many penny pinchers around here always worried about money spent when we aren't even close to hitting the cap ceiling and we clearly are missing a few pieces (passrush,cbs,saftey, wr, Qb)

Who exactly should they be spending their money on?
Lawson? OLB who doesn't pass rush very well. Yes, he's a good player, but we don't even know what his contract demands are.

Goldson? I'm not impressed.

Free Agents? Who exactly? The issue is not that the team is unwilling to spend, its that they want to spend CORRECTLY. Who was out there that the Niners SHOULD have spent big money on?

The Niners have made it a habit to build with the draft and they have awarded extensions early to the guys who panned out (Gore, Willis, Davis). The Niners have awarded big contracts in the past to Clements and Justin Smith.

You should never spend for the sake of spending. You spend when there is siomeone out there worth spending on.

Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.


I guess my biggest issue is that it feels like managment and many Zoners on here only want a player if we are "getting a deal." It's like we are so affraid that we wont get what we paid for that we don't do anything. The reality is, that only works if you are the Pats or Colts and through scheme alone you can turn average players into superstars. If anything we are the exact opposite. We need to pay for all the talent we can get because we've shown an inability to develop players. Guys like Gore and Willis would have been great regardless.
Truthfully, you can find issues with any player when they hit the FA market. By nature of the bidding process you will have to over pay, especially if you are a bottom feeder team like we've become. You ask who would I have signed. I'm not sure, but it feels like we are never in the running for marque talent (B.Marshall, Comartie, J.Taylor, Lynch, Merriman, McNabb, Haynesworth, V.Jackson) I'm not saying all those guys should be signed, but it seems like we aren't interested in anyone. Yet WINNING TEAMS like the Jets are on an FA splurge.

I give the Niners no credit for signing Davis and Willis. That can be chalked up to a no brainer PR move.

WOW. Totally disagree.

You're also kinda making my point. The players you just listed...

B.Marshall: Was a trade, not a FA. Character Issues.
Comartie: Also a trade. Character Issues.
J.Taylor: OLD and no better than what they have.
Lynch: Trade, and at a position where the Niners are STACKED.
Merriman: Wouldn't be an upgrade this season (hurt) and will be a FA after the season.
McNabb: Trade. Also has only played in the WCO...something we no longer run.
Haynesworth: Are you kidding?
V.Jackson: Again...TRADE.

Almost all of those guys were trades where you have to give up more than money. They weren't worth the picks either.

Its also not about getting a good deal (altho thats nice). Its OK to overpay at positions of great need (see Clements, Nate). That doesn't mean tho that you overpay for every player. You pick and shoose and see if its worth it to overpay.

Building a team on nothing but high priced FAs gets you the Washington Redskins. It doesn't work.

...oh, and as for the "no brainer"...thats funny. The Niners can't even get credit for making the RIGHT choices...lol. They made both moves with time left on those players contracts. They got them cheaper because they got them early. You call it a no-brainer, but MANY teams don't make the no-brainer move.

First off, I'm one of those guys that thinks draft picks over proven players are highly overrated. How has picking at the top the last eight years turned us into champions? You can say the same thing about a lot of bottom dweller teams. Willis, Davis, Gore, Iupati, A.Davis, Goldson, A.Smith, Crabtree, Lawson, Morgan and on and on are all draft picks of the Niners. Yet, we still haven't produced a winning season. Furthermore, with the exception of Willis and Gore, we had to wait years to develop these guys. So excuse me if I dont shed a tear for giving up a draft pick or two for a proven guy like Marshall or V.Jackson. Even if we pick a couple of guys up next year that are very solid, it will probably take a few years to become dominate. How big is our window for taking over the west anyway? Bottom line, I dont think there is one correct way to build a team anymore. Whether you do it through the draft or FA doesn't really matter. The salary cap and FA has changed the game.

I love when guys have nothing majorly negative to say about a players game so they default to "character issues." What are you looking for, a team full of boy scouts? A bunch of Nolan guys? All those guys I listed had produced at a high level at one time. All I'm saying is you can't be afraid to take a flyer or two at a player that may have some question marks. If they are perfect in every aspect your going to pay through the nose anyway (see Nate Clements). Just as you dont win championships trying to buy a Superbowl team, you dont win Superbowls by "bargan shopping" unless you have extrodinary coaching talent (which we dont).

P.S. No one is saying we should flood the team with high priced FAs, but I also think we've been too conservative in the FA/Trade market. We are like the Alex Smith of front offices. We play not to lose.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Signing Willis and VD is a "no-brainer." Just because there are a number of teams too dumb to do it, doesn't mean it's not obvious. It's one thing if you are a constant Superbowl contender and everyone wants to be here, but when your us, you better get those guys signed.

How much money do the Colts, Steelers, or Pats spend on free agents every year?
Sure, a team of like Jets went FA crazy in 08 and a bit trade crazy this year. But its also absolutely mortgaged their future. Jets are a win now team because in a year or two, they will be in BIG trouble.
Originally posted by Chief:
I'm saving mine for hookers and blow.

Charlie! Welcome to the board. Are the rest of the Sheen's Niner fans too?
Originally posted by jojomellon:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Clearly I'm not a capologist or as informed as many of the posters on this site, so someone please tell me, what are we saving our money for? All I heard all off season is that we don’t wont to waist money on FA because we want to sign our own guys. However, "our guys" seems to mean V.Davis and P.Willy. Outside of that, the only guys we are willing to pay are role players and FAs on the cheap. Well news flash, that’s not going to get it done. You would think that if we really are holding out to sign "our guys, " we would have a really good idea who "our guys" are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't go out and give a bunch of money to Goldson and Franklin, but I'm a little annoyed we haven't extended Lawson. Sure he might cost a little more than he is worth, but so is the nature of FA. Besides, you dont get brownie points for being under the cap. Why not sign Lawson to a decent sized contract and then bring in a "real pass rusher?" If need be, let Lawson play the weak side. He's not so bad in the passrush that you can always assume he will play coverage. Bottom-line, I just don’t get why we have so many penny pinchers around here always worried about money spent when we aren't even close to hitting the cap ceiling and we clearly are missing a few pieces (passrush,cbs,saftey, wr, Qb)

Who exactly should they be spending their money on?
Lawson? OLB who doesn't pass rush very well. Yes, he's a good player, but we don't even know what his contract demands are.

Goldson? I'm not impressed.

Free Agents? Who exactly? The issue is not that the team is unwilling to spend, its that they want to spend CORRECTLY. Who was out there that the Niners SHOULD have spent big money on?

The Niners have made it a habit to build with the draft and they have awarded extensions early to the guys who panned out (Gore, Willis, Davis). The Niners have awarded big contracts in the past to Clements and Justin Smith.

You should never spend for the sake of spending. You spend when there is siomeone out there worth spending on.

Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.


I guess my biggest issue is that it feels like managment and many Zoners on here only want a player if we are "getting a deal." It's like we are so affraid that we wont get what we paid for that we don't do anything. The reality is, that only works if you are the Pats or Colts and through scheme alone you can turn average players into superstars. If anything we are the exact opposite. We need to pay for all the talent we can get because we've shown an inability to develop players. Guys like Gore and Willis would have been great regardless.
Truthfully, you can find issues with any player when they hit the FA market. By nature of the bidding process you will have to over pay, especially if you are a bottom feeder team like we've become. You ask who would I have signed. I'm not sure, but it feels like we are never in the running for marque talent (B.Marshall, Comartie, J.Taylor, Lynch, Merriman, McNabb, Haynesworth, V.Jackson) I'm not saying all those guys should be signed, but it seems like we aren't interested in anyone. Yet WINNING TEAMS like the Jets are on an FA splurge.

I give the Niners no credit for signing Davis and Willis. That can be chalked up to a no brainer PR move.

WOW. Totally disagree.

You're also kinda making my point. The players you just listed...

B.Marshall: Was a trade, not a FA. Character Issues.
Comartie: Also a trade. Character Issues.
J.Taylor: OLD and no better than what they have.
Lynch: Trade, and at a position where the Niners are STACKED.
Merriman: Wouldn't be an upgrade this season (hurt) and will be a FA after the season.
McNabb: Trade. Also has only played in the WCO...something we no longer run.
Haynesworth: Are you kidding?
V.Jackson: Again...TRADE.

Almost all of those guys were trades where you have to give up more than money. They weren't worth the picks either.

Its also not about getting a good deal (altho thats nice). Its OK to overpay at positions of great need (see Clements, Nate). That doesn't mean tho that you overpay for every player. You pick and shoose and see if its worth it to overpay.

Building a team on nothing but high priced FAs gets you the Washington Redskins. It doesn't work.

...oh, and as for the "no brainer"...thats funny. The Niners can't even get credit for making the RIGHT choices...lol. They made both moves with time left on those players contracts. They got them cheaper because they got them early. You call it a no-brainer, but MANY teams don't make the no-brainer move.

First off, I'm one of those guys that thinks draft picks over proven players are highly overrated. How has picking at the top the last eight years turned us into champions? You can say the same thing about a lot of bottom dweller teams. Willis, Davis, Gore, Iupati, A.Davis, Goldson, A.Smith, Crabtree, Lawson, Morgan and on and on are all draft picks of the Niners. Yet, we still haven't produced a winning season. Furthermore, with the exception of Willis and Gore, we had to wait years to develop these guys. So excuse me if I dont shed a tear for giving up a draft pick or two for a proven guy like Marshall or V.Jackson. Even if we pick a couple of guys up next year that are very solid, it will probably take a few years to become dominate. How big is our window for taking over the west anyway? Bottom line, I dont think there is one correct way to build a team anymore. Whether you do it through the draft or FA doesn't really matter. The salary cap and FA has changed the game.

I love when guys have nothing majorly negative to say about a players game so they default to "character issues." What are you looking for, a team full of boy scouts? A bunch of Nolan guys? All those guys I listed had produced at a high level at one time. All I'm saying is you can't be afraid to take a flyer or two at a player that may have some question marks. If they are perfect in every aspect your going to pay through the nose anyway (see Nate Clements). Just as you dont win championships trying to buy a Superbowl team, you dont win Superbowls by "bargan shopping" unless you have extrodinary coaching talent (which we dont).

P.S. No one is saying we should flood the team with high priced FAs, but I also think we've been too conservative in the FA/Trade market. We are like the Alex Smith of front offices. We play not to lose.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Signing Willis and VD is a "no-brainer." Just because there are a number of teams too dumb to do it, doesn't mean it's not obvious. It's one thing if you are a constant Superbowl contender and everyone wants to be here, but when your us, you better get those guys signed.

How much money do the Colts, Steelers, or Pats spend on free agents every year?
Sure, a team of like Jets went FA crazy in 08 and a bit trade crazy this year. But its also absolutely mortgaged their future. Jets are a win now team because in a year or two, they will be in BIG trouble.[/quote]

.



How do you know? We dont even have a CBA yet.

All the teams you mentioned have a few things in commen, they are great from top to bottom (Owners, Coaches, QBs). They dont need a ton of FAs. They have coaches and QBs that give them the edge. We dont have the coaching or qbs. We are trying to run the ball and stop the run, kind of like the Jets. The average teams with average coaches and average QBs probably need to spend a little more money on talent

BTW, I'd rather make a serious run at the Superbowl a few years than be mediocare or less for a decade (Thats my opinion). Besides, I think it's becoming more and more obvious that in this new era of FA and salary cap, the only teams that are competitive for long periods of time are teams that have great/very good QBs. Teams that don't have great quarterbacks only seem to be good for short periods of time.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Nov 20, 2010 at 19:37:33 ]
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I'm annoyed that they seemingly have not spoken with Lawson to get a better feel for what he would accept. Some guess he would demand a lofty and unjust 7+ mil a year deal. I tend to doubt that, think he wants to stay, and would accept far less. he just wants reasonable pay and security in knowing his immediate future. Could be wrong about all of that, and he could be in it for the largest payout... but I doubt it.

Could be that teams are hesitant on signing significant long-term deals with the CBA mess upon them. Otherwise, who would we sign? Signing goes both ways too... who would rather play for the hapless Niners when they can sign with the spotlighted and powerful NY Jets?

We did a great job in locking up Willis and VD. We did a great job in NOT locking up Franklin and Goldson. But other than not touching base with Manny and his agent (that we know of), I see nothing to get bent outta shape over.

We can't assume they haven't talked to him. How would we know if they did?
Originally posted by Chief:
I'm saving mine for hookers and blow.

Thats all you need in this crazy world.
make it rain
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by Ajanke:
Maiocca did say that he has heard that when the team goes looking for a new head coach they are going to look for one that has done it before, has experience, and money will not be an issue.

So we're going to hire a retread. Great.

They need to start fresh. GET JIM HARBAUGH!

Jim Harbaugh seems too rah rah for the pro game. I think he is a good college coach and thats it.

NO RETREADS, TV COMMENTATORS, ETC!! Damn, shouting is fun.

JH may be more crazy than rah rah. That works for me if its good crazy, rather than the bad crazy we see here now.

Is there any doubt at all that JH would have a far better record than Sing?

Stanford alumni would probably raise a billion dollars to keep him on the Farm!
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