What are we saving our money for?

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.

That move will only be a cheap move for one year. If Troy plays anything like he has been for the rest of the season he will get Alex Smith money, and I don't mean the restructured Alex Smith money.

The question is just horribly flawed.

1) We've signed two pro-bowlers to big money long term extensions in the last six months. We're not "saving our money", we're spending it on our pro-bowlers.

2) Nobody is signing extensions right now because nobody knows if there will be a season next year.

Originally posted by susweel:
You guys WAY overrate Manny Lawson on this board. Dude is an average LB and actually a below average OLB in 3-4. A 3-4 OLB that can't rush the passer are a dime a dozen.

I would only resign at the league minimum.

Manny Lawson is the most overrated player on the webzone by far.

I have been critical of Manny leading up to this year, but he's been playing well for the last 3-4 games, bringing heat to the QBs. He hasn't always gotten to the QB, but he's been getting pressure and helping to change the outcome of plays. That being said, he's still a below-average pass-rusher in a 3-4 defense and I wouldn't be too concerned if we lost him, as long as we actually TRY to find a significant pass-rusher to fill the void.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by susweel:
You guys WAY overrate Manny Lawson on this board. Dude is an average LB and actually a below average OLB in 3-4. A 3-4 OLB that can't rush the passer are a dime a dozen.

I would only resign at the league minimum.

Manny Lawson is the most overrated player on the webzone by far.

I have been critical of Manny leading up to this year, but he's been playing well for the last 3-4 games, bringing heat to the QBs. He hasn't always gotten to the QB, but he's been getting pressure and helping to change the outcome of plays. That being said, he's still a below-average pass-rusher in a 3-4 defense and I wouldn't be too concerned if we lost him, as long as we actually TRY to find a significant pass-rusher to fill the void.

Yes, that position needs to be upgraded as whole. Both he and Haralson are the weak links to the defense.

Originally posted by Ajanke:
Maiocca did say that he has heard that when the team goes looking for a new head coach they are going to look for one that has done it before, has experience, and money will not be an issue.

So we're going to hire a retread. Great.

They need to start fresh. GET JIM HARBAUGH!

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Ajanke:
Maiocca did say that he has heard that when the team goes looking for a new head coach they are going to look for one that has done it before, has experience, and money will not be an issue.

So we're going to hire a retread. Great.

They need to start fresh. GET JIM HARBAUGH!

Jim Harbaugh seems too rah rah for the pro game. I think he is a good college coach and thats it.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Clearly I'm not a capologist or as informed as many of the posters on this site, so someone please tell me, what are we saving our money for? All I heard all off season is that we don’t wont to waist money on FA because we want to sign our own guys. However, "our guys" seems to mean V.Davis and P.Willy. Outside of that, the only guys we are willing to pay are role players and FAs on the cheap. Well news flash, that’s not going to get it done. You would think that if we really are holding out to sign "our guys, " we would have a really good idea who "our guys" are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't go out and give a bunch of money to Goldson and Franklin, but I'm a little annoyed we haven't extended Lawson. Sure he might cost a little more than he is worth, but so is the nature of FA. Besides, you dont get brownie points for being under the cap. Why not sign Lawson to a decent sized contract and then bring in a "real pass rusher?" If need be, let Lawson play the weak side. He's not so bad in the passrush that you can always assume he will play coverage. Bottom-line, I just don’t get why we have so many penny pinchers around here always worried about money spent when we aren't even close to hitting the cap ceiling and we clearly are missing a few pieces (passrush,cbs,saftey, wr, Qb)

Who exactly should they be spending their money on?
Lawson? OLB who doesn't pass rush very well. Yes, he's a good player, but we don't even know what his contract demands are.

Goldson? I'm not impressed.

Free Agents? Who exactly? The issue is not that the team is unwilling to spend, its that they want to spend CORRECTLY. Who was out there that the Niners SHOULD have spent big money on?

The Niners have made it a habit to build with the draft and they have awarded extensions early to the guys who panned out (Gore, Willis, Davis). The Niners have awarded big contracts in the past to Clements and Justin Smith.

You should never spend for the sake of spending. You spend when there is siomeone out there worth spending on.

Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.

I guess my biggest issue is that it feels like managment and many Zoners on here only want a player if we are "getting a deal." It's like we are so affraid that we wont get what we paid for that we don't do anything. The reality is, that only works if you are the Pats or Colts and through scheme alone you can turn average players into superstars. If anything we are the exact opposite. We need to pay for all the talent we can get because we've shown an inability to develop players. Guys like Gore and Willis would have been great regardless.
Truthfully, you can find issues with any player when they hit the FA market. By nature of the bidding process you will have to over pay, especially if you are a bottom feeder team like we've become. You ask who would I have signed. I'm not sure, but it feels like we are never in the running for marque talent (B.Marshall, Comartie, J.Taylor, Lynch, Merriman, McNabb, Haynesworth, V.Jackson) I'm not saying all those guys should be signed, but it seems like we aren't interested in anyone. Yet WINNING TEAMS like the Jets are on an FA splurge.

I give the Niners no credit for signing Davis and Willis. That can be chalked up to a no brainer PR move.

We don't know if there will be a next year and we don't know if there will be a cap again or not. We are not the only team that is doing this. That is why the union had filed suit for collusion, because not many players moved around this year. If you overspend and there is a cap, then you may screw yourselves.

They may have thought to wait and see how this team developed. If they were solid in making the playoffs and became 1 to 2 players away, they then would have spent money the following season for that free agent or make a trade for him. Other wise to spend on a team that is not on stable ground is a blue print for disaster.

I want them to go after these players too, but I also understand in wise investments as I would not want to throw money away foolishly if it were mine.

Originally posted by WildBill:
We don't know if there will be a next year and we don't know if there will be a cap again or not. We are not the only team that is doing this. That is why the union had filed suit for collusion, because not many players moved around this year. If you overspend and there is a cap, then you may screw yourselves.

They may have thought to wait and see how this team developed. If they were solid in making the playoffs and became 1 to 2 players away, they then would have spent money the following season for that free agent or make a trade for him. Other wise to spend on a team that is not on stable ground is a blue print for disaster.

I want them to go after these players too, but I also understand in wise investments as I would not want to throw money away foolishly if it were mine.

That definitly makes sense. I just get tired of posts always worried about over spending when we are so far under the cap (I know there is no cap this year.) As stated, a lot of people on this board seem to applaud our management for managing with extreme caution. Personally, like in football, I think we need to take a little more risk (spending) if we are to take the next step. I know this is an unusual year, but "bargain shoping" still seems to be the teams overall philosophy.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
The question is just horribly flawed.

1) We've signed two pro-bowlers to big money long term extensions in the last six months. We're not "saving our money", we're spending it on our pro-bowlers.

2) Nobody is signing extensions right now because nobody knows if there will be a season next year.

Good sir, I want to crawl inside of you.

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
The question is just horribly flawed.

1) We've signed two pro-bowlers to big money long term extensions in the last six months. We're not "saving our money", we're spending it on our pro-bowlers.

2) Nobody is signing extensions right now because nobody knows if there will be a season next year.

Good sir, I want to crawl inside of you.

Alien!!!!!

Saving cap space is secondary to......

Preserving our cash on hand so we can sign guaranteed money checks to the right people at the right time.

Thats it in a nutshell.

1. Get great coaches
2. draft well
3. become a playoff team
4. fill holes with high priced mercs compensated by ridiculous guaranteed money lump sum checks
5. take your shot at a Super Bowl, window usually last 3-5 years

Thats the formula. We have been stuck on step one since the ownership change. But to answer your question, money is saved for the scenario when we actually make it to phase 4. Skipping to step 4 does not work...see Washington Redskins

[ Edited by danimal on Nov 19, 2010 at 14:53:07 ]

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.

That move will only be a cheap move for one year. If Troy plays anything like he has been for the rest of the season he will get Alex Smith money, and I don't mean the restructured Alex Smith money.

Who cares? If he plays like he has the Niners will be happy to pay him. My point was the getting him initially was a cheap move.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Clearly I'm not a capologist or as informed as many of the posters on this site, so someone please tell me, what are we saving our money for? All I heard all off season is that we don’t wont to waist money on FA because we want to sign our own guys. However, "our guys" seems to mean V.Davis and P.Willy. Outside of that, the only guys we are willing to pay are role players and FAs on the cheap. Well news flash, that’s not going to get it done. You would think that if we really are holding out to sign "our guys, " we would have a really good idea who "our guys" are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't go out and give a bunch of money to Goldson and Franklin, but I'm a little annoyed we haven't extended Lawson. Sure he might cost a little more than he is worth, but so is the nature of FA. Besides, you dont get brownie points for being under the cap. Why not sign Lawson to a decent sized contract and then bring in a "real pass rusher?" If need be, let Lawson play the weak side. He's not so bad in the passrush that you can always assume he will play coverage. Bottom-line, I just don’t get why we have so many penny pinchers around here always worried about money spent when we aren't even close to hitting the cap ceiling and we clearly are missing a few pieces (passrush,cbs,saftey, wr, Qb)

Who exactly should they be spending their money on?
Lawson? OLB who doesn't pass rush very well. Yes, he's a good player, but we don't even know what his contract demands are.

Goldson? I'm not impressed.

Free Agents? Who exactly? The issue is not that the team is unwilling to spend, its that they want to spend CORRECTLY. Who was out there that the Niners SHOULD have spent big money on?

The Niners have made it a habit to build with the draft and they have awarded extensions early to the guys who panned out (Gore, Willis, Davis). The Niners have awarded big contracts in the past to Clements and Justin Smith.

You should never spend for the sake of spending. You spend when there is siomeone out there worth spending on.

Additionally, sometimes the best moves are CHEAP ones...like say signing Troy Smith the week before the season starts.

I guess my biggest issue is that it feels like managment and many Zoners on here only want a player if we are "getting a deal." It's like we are so affraid that we wont get what we paid for that we don't do anything. The reality is, that only works if you are the Pats or Colts and through scheme alone you can turn average players into superstars. If anything we are the exact opposite. We need to pay for all the talent we can get because we've shown an inability to develop players. Guys like Gore and Willis would have been great regardless.
Truthfully, you can find issues with any player when they hit the FA market. By nature of the bidding process you will have to over pay, especially if you are a bottom feeder team like we've become. You ask who would I have signed. I'm not sure, but it feels like we are never in the running for marque talent (B.Marshall, Comartie, J.Taylor, Lynch, Merriman, McNabb, Haynesworth, V.Jackson) I'm not saying all those guys should be signed, but it seems like we aren't interested in anyone. Yet WINNING TEAMS like the Jets are on an FA splurge.

I give the Niners no credit for signing Davis and Willis. That can be chalked up to a no brainer PR move.

WOW. Totally disagree.

You're also kinda making my point. The players you just listed...

B.Marshall: Was a trade, not a FA. Character Issues.
Comartie: Also a trade. Character Issues.
J.Taylor: OLD and no better than what they have.
Lynch: Trade, and at a position where the Niners are STACKED.
Merriman: Wouldn't be an upgrade this season (hurt) and will be a FA after the season.
McNabb: Trade. Also has only played in the WCO...something we no longer run.
Haynesworth: Are you kidding?
V.Jackson: Again...TRADE.

Almost all of those guys were trades where you have to give up more than money. They weren't worth the picks either.

Its also not about getting a good deal (altho thats nice). Its OK to overpay at positions of great need (see Clements, Nate). That doesn't mean tho that you overpay for every player. You pick and shoose and see if its worth it to overpay.

Building a team on nothing but high priced FAs gets you the Washington Redskins. It doesn't work.

...oh, and as for the "no brainer"...thats funny. The Niners can't even get credit for making the RIGHT choices...lol. They made both moves with time left on those players contracts. They got them cheaper because they got them early. You call it a no-brainer, but MANY teams don't make the no-brainer move.

[ Edited by Marvin49 on Nov 19, 2010 at 15:18:12 ]

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Ajanke:
Maiocca did say that he has heard that when the team goes looking for a new head coach they are going to look for one that has done it before, has experience, and money will not be an issue.

So we're going to hire a retread. Great.

They need to start fresh. GET JIM HARBAUGH!

Jim Harbaugh seems too rah rah for the pro game. I think he is a good college coach and thats it.

He's great with QBs and is an offensive mind. That's what we need.