Lacking enthusiam about Troy Smith

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:
I saw something things I liked a lot, and other things that were not acceptable but am willing to write them off to lack of practice time.

My optimism is tempered by the reality that Denver is a bad team that had some playmakers out with injuries. If Troy can come back and win against a good Rams defense, then my level of enthusiasm will increase substantially.

Here is something I find interesting: Alex came to the 49ers with a very exciting college resume of running a creative and highly productive offense, and he was immediately dumped into a situation where he was coached to do almost the mirror opposite of what he did in college. RESULT: A mechanical QB that was no longer doing any of the things that made him successful in college.

Troy came from college with a similar pedigree, got a couple of starts in Baltimore then lost his job to Joe Flacco. The interesting thing to me is that Flacco also came from college with a big resume of successful, creative offense but was immersed in a conservative offense that relied on defense to win - a philosophy very much like the Nolan/Sing 49er formula. RESULT: Joe Flacco is now a mechanical QB who has a very unimpressive 84% QB rating and is being called a "flash in the pan" who made it to the playoffs on the strength of the defense, not on his ability.

So here are three QBs who were highly rated coming out of college. The only one who still seems to retain the flash he showed in college is the one who was coached the least in the "game-manager-defense-wins" philosophy. Troy Smith never saw the light of day after Flacco took over. He was able to maintain his playing personality by NOT being the 1st string QB and being molded to change his playing style.

Let's hope Singletary reads this board and leaves Troy alone to play out his personality and not force a square peg into a round hole.

Joe Flacco has 10 TDs to 6 INTs.

For his career, he has 45TD to 30INTs.

In his rookie year, he had 14TD to 12 INT.



Most QB's you CAN compare Alex Smith to are no longer in the league or are career backups. Joe has not failed under the type of situation you are talking about whereas Alex has. Alex has ONLY succeeded under a specific situation. Maybe Tommie Frazier got a raw deal because the team he went to didn't run the Wing T offense.

Sooner or later, the better QB's learn to play solid at the least under unfavorable conditions. Alex has yet to do that.

There you go again.

I make a point about how the same kind of ultra-conservative coaching that Alex Smith received also turned Joe Flacco from a creative passing QB into a "game manager," completely over-riding what made him successful in college and you ignore that to throw more mud on Alex.

Of course Flacco's numbers are somewhat better than Alex' but Flacco plays on a MUCH better team with one of the very best defenses in the league that routinely give's Joe great field position.

Even when Smith has performed at Flacco-like numbers (85% rating) you don't like him. 85% is very disappointing for a QB who was as highly regarded coming out of college as was Flacco. He is now very conservative and his completion percentage is identical to Smith's (59%), largely the result of the fact he has been coached to throw the ball out of bounds rather than take a chance on a 50/50 ball where the receiver HAS to make a play in order to complete the pass.

It is the coaching. The similarities between Smith and Flacco are striking if you are willing to look a bit deeper. If Smith played in Baltimore his name would be Flacco and their record would have 3 more wins.

My point is that Smith has yet to show that he can be a game manager. He is inconsistent and game managers are not inconsistent.

A "game manager" is not the kind of guy that you can ask to step up and carry the team on his back for 2 pr 3 wins/season. Trent Dilfer was the prototype game manager on a SB winning team, and that team won because of defense, not because Dilfer won the game for them.

Right not the 49ers need more than a game manager. The OL and the defense are not good enough to allow them to win with a game manager.

The result is that Singletary wants Smith to play like a game manager yet the play design and play calling puts him in a position where it takes more than a game manager to move the chains. So when Smith attempts to make up for the ultra-conservative offense the results are often not good.

My final Alex post in this thread is a reminder that I am convinced he will not be here again next year. Either he is not offered a contract, or he will choose to move on to another team where the offensive philosophy resides someplace this side of the Woodrow Wilson administration. Hence, I am not advocating for Alex Smith, rather I am pointing out how handicapped the offense is with the current coaching philosophy.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

I think you are missing the point actually. "Safeness" is very core to Alex's DNA. Even Urban Meyer said this, in so many words.... he won't throw the ball unless he's 100% sure. Don't pin this one on Sing, it has nothing to do with him.

Who are you kidding? Do you watch this team play. We are safe! Period! We play safe on offense or is running up the middle on 1st and 2nd down over and over streacthing it out? How about on defense? No blitzing to help out our crappy secondary or the prevent in the closing drives in 4 out of 5 games to help us lose.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

I'm sorry, but that's just Alex Smith's personality, not the head coach. It also has nothing to do with being off on big throws. Safe is another word for not throwing it unless you see the receiver open. You actually think NFL coaches are teaching him this? I don't.

Yet Alex Smith did not play that way in college.

I do think he has been coached that way, in part because Nolan hired Dilfer to come in and coach him to play that way...and Singletary has followed his former boss.

Originally posted by Joecool:


My point is that Smith has yet to show that he can be a game manager. He is inconsistent and game managers are not inconsistent.

Wow, you sure did type a lot to say that the first time.

This post is truth.

It's a total bummer that there were a lot of factors that made it extremely difficult to be consistent. Call them "Alexcuses" if you want, but they are still truth.

In the end, it doesn't matter if he had excuses or not. It is what it is and will be what it will be.

We will see how things play out.

I (along with many 9er fans) are confident that he will do relatively well. Nothing that is Manning-like or Favre-like, but just help this team build.

After all, he did pretty well with no TO's (but if he tries that punt he calls a throw again he will have more TO's) and he's an intelligent guy.

Definitely reliable enough to play for the next couple games or even the rest of the season unless he proves otherwise.

I think its safe to trust him for now although its only been one game. I say this just because from what he displayed, (decent throws, big arm, some overthrown,) he can get much better especially with that bye week.

I actually want to see him throw the pass overhead of VD from that play we run here and there. If he can get that down, and Mike Johnson starts letting him throw the ball more often, he can definitely make a difference.

Originally posted by 76Razor:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

i have to disagree here. playing it safe is one thing, playing scared is another. questioning your abilities (hesitation with decision making) is what alex does. when he is allowed to throw, he has options. he should go through his reads and make a decision. he does not, he panics and and either throws away of hesitates.

troy smith gets a fraction of the playbook-which is from the same bulls**t conservative "play it safe" plan and makes it happen. i am not claiming troy the second coming, but it is somewhat obvious that he has "it" over alex.

Well, that would be great to go thru his reads if he had the time to make it past the 1st progression. Most times its throw it to the first read or take a sack or leave the pocked. This is not the Colts where the qb has all day to throw, we get 1 or maybe the 2nd read and thats it. You actually think Alex is scared? Common man, he's a pro and maybe you don't like him and thats okay but he's not scared he's been coached to not make a mistake and that puts doubt in his mind. You think if your boss tells you never to make a mistake or thats it and then your gonna just go and wing it everyday, yeah right.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

I'm sorry, but that's just Alex Smith's personality, not the head coach. It also has nothing to do with being off on big throws. Safe is another word for not throwing it unless you see the receiver open. You actually think NFL coaches are teaching him this? I don't.

Yet Alex Smith did not play that way in college.

I do think he has been coached that way, in part because Nolan hired Dilfer to come in and coach him to play that way...and Singletary has followed his former boss.

Yeah, and the definition of open in college is the same as the NFL.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

I'm sorry, but that's just Alex Smith's personality, not the head coach. It also has nothing to do with being off on big throws. Safe is another word for not throwing it unless you see the receiver open. You actually think NFL coaches are teaching him this? I don't.

And now we are saying "safe" is code for not throwing timing routes? Really? You can say it but it doesn't make it true. Please watch the games and just don't make statements that are not based in fact. We throw plenty of timing routes where Alex throws before the wr even turns or breaks. Deep balls are almost never perfectly thrown and are for the wr to make a play on the ball and until the hail mary against the Bronco's our wr's have yet to lay out, make the catch or break up a long ball.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

I'm sorry, but that's just Alex Smith's personality, not the head coach. It also has nothing to do with being off on big throws. Safe is another word for not throwing it unless you see the receiver open. You actually think NFL coaches are teaching him this? I don't.

Yet Alex Smith did not play that way in college.

I do think he has been coached that way, in part because Nolan hired Dilfer to come in and coach him to play that way...and Singletary has followed his former boss.

Not every receiver in college is open by 3+ yards on every play. A lot of them just out-reached the defender, just like in the pros. Smith threw, and completed those passes in college. There is ample film to show it.

The fact is, Alex Smith was COACHED away from the playing personality he had in college from the first meeting he had with Nolan pre-draft right up until Jimmy Raye was fired and Mike Johnson took over. His personality was changed and now needs to change back, but it won't happen under Mike Singletary, and it likely won't happen with the 49ers.

Yeah, and the definition of open in college is the same as the NFL.

Originally posted by oldman9er:


I simply have not watched enough from the Rams to speak intelligibly about what is working so well for them.

I've watched him a little bit. I was impressed by what I saw. Certainly not perfect, but he made some plays.

I'll check in on him again toward the end of the season to see if he's improved. I won't draw any conclusions before then.

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

I'm sorry, but that's just Alex Smith's personality, not the head coach. It also has nothing to do with being off on big throws. Safe is another word for not throwing it unless you see the receiver open. You actually think NFL coaches are teaching him this? I don't.

And now we are saying "safe" is code for not throwing timing routes? Really? You can say it but it doesn't make it true. Please watch the games and just don't make statements that are not based in fact. We throw plenty of timing routes where Alex throws before the wr even turns or breaks. Deep balls are almost never perfectly thrown and are for the wr to make a play on the ball and until the hail mary against the Bronco's our wr's have yet to lay out, make the catch or break up a long ball.

So our receivers are always open by a yard or never open because that's how it's been with Alex.

Also, the ball Troy threw to Crabtree for the TD was the same type of throw Alex forced Morgan to leap out of bounds (wide open) in Game 1. Alex has rarely displayed the ability to be accurate in a split second "oh s**t, he's open" throw.

Curl route is one of the safest routes for a QB to throw. Alex still has difficulty throwing accurately outside the hashes.

He is a mediocre to below average QB and that's how he plays. There is no sugar coating it.

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by 76Razor:

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
If Alex QB's that game, we win. The defense showed up, which it seldom does. I am sick of the blinders people have.

How many times has our defense allowed points in the last two minutes of the game? Regardless of what Singletary says, it is our defense that hasn't showed up this year.

If Clements falls down after intercepting a pass, we win another game.

If our defense shows up at agains the Eagles we win that game too.

If we get one stop against the Saints-after Bush is out of the game-we win that game too.

I am happy to have T. Smith give it a go, but if people think that he is going to win games when the defense plays like it has with Alex they're in for a rude awakening.

And u know Big Wad I dont see what the big deal is tho. I mean of course we give T. Smith his props, but i mean to not pay attention to the above mentioned is just crazy. For all the things that people said they saw, u can find at least 10 other people that saw the same thing, but look at it from a different perspective.

I mean he kept tons of plays alive, but had our D stepped up like you said in the above game, then we wouldnt be where we are now. I even went a step farther and said I remember over the years, when we beat sorry ass teams, tons of fans made sure to point that out. So it's no different with Denver in my opinion.

They say we are nearing the easiest part of the schedule, so thats a great way to look at it. A. Smith played the hardest part in the first half, and now T. if he is the starter will now play the easiest part. Uncomparable in my opinion.

Like Alex lovers like you have on? Troy Smith had a 115 rating and people have called his performance "average" I have seen Alex Smith get a 75 and people give him a "B grade". It is called "bias", nothing more.

I agree but it goes both ways. When Alex has 90+ ratings..it's "well ratings don't mean much."

We could go back and forth on this all day. We are all part of the same hypocrisy.

But the context makes a huge difference. Alex gets a 90 rating every once in a while having 50 games of experience. Troy, is in his first game with little to none prep and with the play calling highly weighing against his success.

what he said

lol, so the context of it being only one game and entirely inconclusive doesn't get factored in?

we're all excited to see what Troy can do. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Praising him for not being Alex is just getting sad.

It's the old saying when JTO or Hill were playing:

"We know what these guys can do. They are 5 year journey men backups."

Well, we have come full circle and I will say this:

We know what Alex Smith can do and he hasn't shown to be any better than a 6 year journey man backup.

I think it's fair to get excited and hope Troy can succeed.

Its fair to hope Troy can succeed, and fair to get excited, but I'm just going to temper my excitement until I see more. He seems to have a lot of promise. Unlike the other QB's we've been burned on, he really doesn't have a lot of experience (hasn't bounced around all that much) but he does have a solid pedigree. He seems to have good instincts. He seems to be a playmaker. He's got a good arm, etc. There's a lot to like.

But its one game. I think a lot of people on here are over-excited just because he's not Alex. Whatever, that's a lame reason to be excited, IMO. I'm gonna try to be excited about Troy Smith, if he continues to warrant it, and not be excited about Not Alex Smith.

No way! I'm going to be overexcited when any QB comes in and has a chance to see if he can play in the NFL. I'm over excited, not because he's not Alex Smith, because he's not a QB we have already tried.

I'm excited because we haven't had an all around QB since Garcia.

JTO had the arm.
Hill had leadership/mobility.
Alex had the safeness.
Troy appears to have a little bit of all three*

*yes he was safe for almost the entire game

who the heck wants wants "safeness" in a QB? How about accuracy instead? Alex can take his "safeness" to another team and see how much they value it.

You don't seem to get the point. Alex has been coached and has had it drilled into his head that he cannot make any mistakes and must play "SAFE" in order for us to win. If you don't get that then nobody is gonna help you and you're gonna be dissapointed when the next guy is coached the same way. By the way, you don't think if that prayer was intercepeted like it usually is 99 out of 100 times, that Sing would not have taken your new best friend aside and ripped him a new one?

i have to disagree here. playing it safe is one thing, playing scared is another. questioning your abilities (hesitation with decision making) is what alex does. when he is allowed to throw, he has options. he should go through his reads and make a decision. he does not, he panics and and either throws away of hesitates.

troy smith gets a fraction of the playbook-which is from the same bulls**t conservative "play it safe" plan and makes it happen. i am not claiming troy the second coming, but it is somewhat obvious that he has "it" over alex.

Well, that would be great to go thru his reads if he had the time to make it past the 1st progression. Most times its throw it to the first read or take a sack or leave the pocked. This is not the Colts where the qb has all day to throw, we get 1 or maybe the 2nd read and thats it. You actually think Alex is scared? Common man, he's a pro and maybe you don't like him and thats okay but he's not scared he's been coached to not make a mistake and that puts doubt in his mind. You think if your boss tells you never to make a mistake or thats it and then your gonna just go and wing it everyday, yeah right.

LOL!

i was on "team alex" up to this year. if my boss tells me not to f**k up "or else" then i STEP UP and make a name for myself until he shuts his trap. i'll be damned if i am going to let my boss hold my future in his hand-and that is exactly why alex (by your "play it safe" theory) is NOT and SHOULD NOT the QB of our future. if he is that timid, i don't want him back there. black smith get one shot and with the same game plan, he wins. coincidence? maybe. truth that alex just can't get it done? maybe. we shall see.

by the way, link the article where it states that alex was told to "play it safe or else". cuz, to be honest, i think you just think that's what is going on.

has it ever occurred to you that our fearless leader is the one responsible for the majority of our team's demise? alex is but a small fraction of the problems we have.

Originally posted by 76Razor:


by the way, link the article where it states that alex was told to "play it safe or else". cuz, to be honest, i think you just think that's what is going on.

Common knowledge for fans paying close attention = http://blogblitz.nfl.com/san-francisco-49ers/entry/just_kickin_it

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by 76Razor:


by the way, link the article where it states that alex was told to "play it safe or else". cuz, to be honest, i think you just think that's what is going on.

Common knowledge for fans paying close attention = http://blogblitz.nfl.com/san-francisco-49ers/entry/just_kickin_it

Except that, in the context of Mike Singletary's frame of reference, for about one full second, while that pass to Walker was in the air, MS was saying, "OMG, we should have quick-kicked and downed it at their two yard line."

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by 76Razor:


by the way, link the article where it states that alex was told to "play it safe or else". cuz, to be honest, i think you just think that's what is going on.

Common knowledge for fans paying close attention = http://blogblitz.nfl.com/san-francisco-49ers/entry/just_kickin_it

bwahahaha! are you serious? THIS is your evidence? what coach doesn't want to end a series on a turnover and would rather end in a kick (field goal or kickoff due to TD of FG). i want proof that sing pulled smith to the side and said "play it safe or else". don't grasp at s**t.