Reason for the sh*tty o-line play?

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
This morning, I watched the Packers replay. I kid you not, Rodgers had EIGHT seconds of protection at one point. 1 play is 1 play, but if Alex Smith gets 3 seconds of protection, that's generally a shocking display of awesomeness from our OL.

... just saying.

Alex will begin his scramble to the sidelines after 3 seconds no matter how good his protection is. He's done it 3 times that I have counted when the protection isn't budging and everyone is blocked solid. Not saying he gets more time than Rodgers, just saying there are times where he can stand in but chooses not to.

This hasn't really been a problem this year. The crappiness of our OL really becomes evident when you take a look at other teams around the league. He should've said something about MIA's line, because Henne literally had all day to throw. We're soooo far from that kind of OL, it's really quite a downer.

I don't agree. There are numerous times he can side step into a comfortable spot or hitch forward. Our pass blocking isn't terrible and the QB and his pocket presence and his use of the pocket/passing lanes can be that big difference from an average to a slightly below average line to an above average line.

I rewatched Sunday's game and noticed a few times when he had great protection except for an edge rusher appearing to close in on him. All he had to do was step one way nullifying the edge rush and be sitting nice and comfy in a 3 yard radius open pocket.

Of course I know the line hasn't been great but it's much better than last year and Alex could also make this line look much better.

Point out the times in each example, and I'll be happy to compare notes. What I do remember from prior games this year, is that Smith stepped in on many/most of his throws as the edge protection gave way. It was comical how often he had to do this... but I don't remember any examples you are describing from last week's game.

I pointed out two instances: early in the game when Staley was being pushed back but eventually held his ground, Alex had no one to his front, right-front, or to his right within 3 yards of him (everyone else was sealed off) and he decided to try and scramble front left right where Staley's man was. Staley had finally stopped the push and all Alex had to do was slide over to the right where he had ample room but he took the worst possible route to decide to scramble to.

There was also that play where Baas gave up pressure to Alex's front right. Alex did not budge and Baas was veering his man slightly to the right. Alex had nearly 4 yards of room to his front, front-left, and his left. He did not once think about side-stepping to his left.

He has hitched forward at times and it has made our OL look great because he ends up sitting pretty in a nice pocket after the hitch (this is where Baas over Hietman has helped the most). In these plays, he has found the second receiver and has been extremely accurate. However, most of the time, he stands there like a statue or he scrambles and commits 100% in that direction. I'm hoping this will come in time but it is making our OL appear worse than it is.

Most of the pressure has been from the outside but at the spot of Alex's last step in his drop which means that it can easily be diverted. Every QB/OL in the league deal with this. How many times have you seen Manny or one of our outside rushers run just behind the QB? I have seen it happen a lot but those QBs understand where they are in the pocket and where the pressure is coming from in turn taking an extra hitch forward or side-stepping.

The key to pressuring/sacking a QB is the 2nd man that reaches the QB but our QB easily gets sacked by the first man. That tells me his pocket awareness needs to improve. Our defense gets a lot of primary pressure but doesn't get the sack because the opposing QB knows where to go. On the other hand, our QB repeatedly gets sacked by the primary pressure when everyone else on the DL has been sealed off and blocked well.

I blame the California weather it makes people lazy.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
This morning, I watched the Packers replay. I kid you not, Rodgers had EIGHT seconds of protection at one point. 1 play is 1 play, but if Alex Smith gets 3 seconds of protection, that's generally a shocking display of awesomeness from our OL.

... just saying.

Alex will begin his scramble to the sidelines after 3 seconds no matter how good his protection is. He's done it 3 times that I have counted when the protection isn't budging and everyone is blocked solid. Not saying he gets more time than Rodgers, just saying there are times where he can stand in but chooses not to.

This hasn't really been a problem this year. The crappiness of our OL really becomes evident when you take a look at other teams around the league. He should've said something about MIA's line, because Henne literally had all day to throw. We're soooo far from that kind of OL, it's really quite a downer.

I don't agree. There are numerous times he can side step into a comfortable spot or hitch forward. Our pass blocking isn't terrible and the QB and his pocket presence and his use of the pocket/passing lanes can be that big difference from an average to a slightly below average line to an above average line.

I rewatched Sunday's game and noticed a few times when he had great protection except for an edge rusher appearing to close in on him. All he had to do was step one way nullifying the edge rush and be sitting nice and comfy in a 3 yard radius open pocket.

Of course I know the line hasn't been great but it's much better than last year and Alex could also make this line look much better.

Point out the times in each example, and I'll be happy to compare notes. What I do remember from prior games this year, is that Smith stepped in on many/most of his throws as the edge protection gave way. It was comical how often he had to do this... but I don't remember any examples you are describing from last week's game.

I pointed out two instances: early in the game when Staley was being pushed back but eventually held his ground, Alex had no one to his front, right-front, or to his right within 3 yards of him (everyone else was sealed off) and he decided to try and scramble front left right where Staley's man was. Staley had finally stopped the push and all Alex had to do was slide over to the right where he had ample room but he took the worst possible route to decide to scramble to.

There was also that play where Baas gave up pressure to Alex's front right. Alex did not budge and Baas was veering his man slightly to the right. Alex had nearly 4 yards of room to his front, front-left, and his left. He did not once think about side-stepping to his left.

He has hitched forward at times and it has made our OL look great because he ends up sitting pretty in a nice pocket after the hitch (this is where Baas over Hietman has helped the most). In these plays, he has found the second receiver and has been extremely accurate. However, most of the time, he stands there like a statue or he scrambles and commits 100% in that direction. I'm hoping this will come in time but it is making our OL appear worse than it is.

Most of the pressure has been from the outside but at the spot of Alex's last step in his drop which means that it can easily be diverted. Every QB/OL in the league deal with this. How many times have you seen Manny or one of our outside rushers run just behind the QB? I have seen it happen a lot but those QBs understand where they are in the pocket and where the pressure is coming from in turn taking an extra hitch forward or side-stepping.

The key to pressuring/sacking a QB is the 2nd man that reaches the QB but our QB easily gets sacked by the first man. That tells me his pocket awareness needs to improve. Our defense gets a lot of primary pressure but doesn't get the sack because the opposing QB knows where to go. On the other hand, our QB repeatedly gets sacked by the primary pressure when everyone else on the DL has been sealed off and blocked well.

What team have you been watching? We regularly have 2 guys in the backfield putting pressure on the QB. I think the problem is just young guys learning to play together as a unit, and that hopefully they get it together quick, soon and in a hurry.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
This morning, I watched the Packers replay. I kid you not, Rodgers had EIGHT seconds of protection at one point. 1 play is 1 play, but if Alex Smith gets 3 seconds of protection, that's generally a shocking display of awesomeness from our OL.

... just saying.

Alex will begin his scramble to the sidelines after 3 seconds no matter how good his protection is. He's done it 3 times that I have counted when the protection isn't budging and everyone is blocked solid. Not saying he gets more time than Rodgers, just saying there are times where he can stand in but chooses not to.

This hasn't really been a problem this year. The crappiness of our OL really becomes evident when you take a look at other teams around the league. He should've said something about MIA's line, because Henne literally had all day to throw. We're soooo far from that kind of OL, it's really quite a downer.

I don't agree. There are numerous times he can side step into a comfortable spot or hitch forward. Our pass blocking isn't terrible and the QB and his pocket presence and his use of the pocket/passing lanes can be that big difference from an average to a slightly below average line to an above average line.

I rewatched Sunday's game and noticed a few times when he had great protection except for an edge rusher appearing to close in on him. All he had to do was step one way nullifying the edge rush and be sitting nice and comfy in a 3 yard radius open pocket.

Of course I know the line hasn't been great but it's much better than last year and Alex could also make this line look much better.

Point out the times in each example, and I'll be happy to compare notes. What I do remember from prior games this year, is that Smith stepped in on many/most of his throws as the edge protection gave way. It was comical how often he had to do this... but I don't remember any examples you are describing from last week's game.

I pointed out two instances: early in the game when Staley was being pushed back but eventually held his ground, Alex had no one to his front, right-front, or to his right within 3 yards of him (everyone else was sealed off) and he decided to try and scramble front left right where Staley's man was. Staley had finally stopped the push and all Alex had to do was slide over to the right where he had ample room but he took the worst possible route to decide to scramble to.

There was also that play where Baas gave up pressure to Alex's front right. Alex did not budge and Baas was veering his man slightly to the right. Alex had nearly 4 yards of room to his front, front-left, and his left. He did not once think about side-stepping to his left.

He has hitched forward at times and it has made our OL look great because he ends up sitting pretty in a nice pocket after the hitch (this is where Baas over Hietman has helped the most). In these plays, he has found the second receiver and has been extremely accurate. However, most of the time, he stands there like a statue or he scrambles and commits 100% in that direction. I'm hoping this will come in time but it is making our OL appear worse than it is.

Most of the pressure has been from the outside but at the spot of Alex's last step in his drop which means that it can easily be diverted. Every QB/OL in the league deal with this. How many times have you seen Manny or one of our outside rushers run just behind the QB? I have seen it happen a lot but those QBs understand where they are in the pocket and where the pressure is coming from in turn taking an extra hitch forward or side-stepping.

The key to pressuring/sacking a QB is the 2nd man that reaches the QB but our QB easily gets sacked by the first man. That tells me his pocket awareness needs to improve. Our defense gets a lot of primary pressure but doesn't get the sack because the opposing QB knows where to go. On the other hand, our QB repeatedly gets sacked by the primary pressure when everyone else on the DL has been sealed off and blocked well.

What team have you been watching? We regularly have 2 guys in the backfield putting pressure on the QB. I think the problem is just young guys learning to play together as a unit, and that hopefully they get it together quick, soon and in a hurry.

Manny tends to get the QB to step up in the pocket and we lose it from there because apparently every QB in the league greases their jerseys with crisco before game time.

Originally posted by danimal:
I am willing to admit that maybe I was wrong about Solari.

Maybe he is not that good afterall.

However, many of us warned others that a season featuring 2 rookies on the line could be mainly a developmental season.

It was funny how many people were stoked about the draft picks for 2010. I was stoked with the Davis, Iupati picks for 2011 and beyond, but if they actually made the starting squad in 2010 that is not a good thing.

We had two basically the same reasons for hope:
1. Davis couldn't possibly play worse than Snyder - which at this point I don't think that he has, so count this as a win?
2. Iupati couldn't possibly play worse than Baas. - a draw?

IIRC, Snyder gave up a league high 10 sacks last year, however they make that statistics. While they both haven't blown us away with their play, I think it's ok to say that we got what most people reasonably expected.

-9fA

2 rookies, plus suspect left tackle.

Two rookies, a new center, a young suspect RG and Staley not playing up to his rep. This is a recipe for...1-6! The skill positions have made progress but the OL has regressed, not surprising given the limited experience.

What would a skilled HC have done? Kept Simms at LT, moved Staley to RT, and hoped Heitmann heeled quickly. Then they could have worked the Rookies in slowly.

The penalties have been killing drives and that is another result of inexperience and limited team chemistry. VD and Gore sticking up for Smith is perhaps the best "play" I've seen this year. Thank you to those two for understanding the need for team solidarity!

they are s**t.

quit your whining. The jets had two rookies start on their O line, and they led the league in rushing. If the niners had coaching, and used the O line, and the rull complement of rb's it would be a different season.

gore up the middle,
gore up the middle
pass to gore in the flat.

vanilla, vanilla, vanilla

Also the defense respects the run and not the pass, so they are bringing the heat and have 8 men in the box. A good coach would use this against defenses, but no the niners, they run into the 8 man front.

Originally posted by Rulo:
Maybe they Hate Alex Smith, as much as the majority of fans do, and are trying to get him killed....

Mission Acomplished!!! there you go Rook!!!!!

Alex Smith.

I'm not even joking.

Great QBs make their lines look great by getting rid of the ball quickly to the optimal read. Listening to Steve Young on KNBR multiple times he talks about play at the NFL level being so fast certain QBs can learn to process information that quickly and certain QBs can't. Alex can't. It's likely that no QB on our current roster can.

Bad QBs = bad offensive line everytime. Put Peyton Manning in a 49er uniform and you'll see what I'm talking about. The line would all the sudden look much better.

[ Edited by 49erFaithful6 on Oct 25, 2010 at 08:10:02 ]

anytime you have 2 rookie offensive linemen your offensive line is going to struggle and as the offensive coordinator u have to give those guys help especially anthony davis who has been beat like a drum by t. hali chiefs game for 3 sacks n forced fumble also was beat in seattle bad by some guy i never heard of this game was more of the same for davis he struggled against dude who hurt alex smith who has bad habit of holding ball too long we should have traded for d. mcnabb in offseason we had two 1st round picks and it would have been better than drafting two offensive linemen who are struggling anyway

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Alex Smith.

I'm not even joking.

Great QBs make their lines look great by getting rid of the ball quickly to the optimal read. Listening to Steve Young on KNBR multiple times he talks about play at the NFL level being so fast certain QBs can learn to process information that quickly and certain QBs can't. Alex can't. It's likely that no QB on our current roster can.

Bad QBs = bad offensive line everytime. Put Peyton Manning in a 49er uniform and you'll see what I'm talking about. The line would all the sudden look much better.

lol. are you serious?

Chilo Rachal is the worst right guard in the NFL, and Anthony Davis is the worst right tackle in the NFL. (but they're young, blah, whatever they're trash)

Staley is overrated, and Baas and Iupati aren't very good.

Know what you get when you add all that up? The worst o-line in the NFL.

Know what happens when you have the worst O-line in the NFL? You're offense sucks balls. I don't care who you're qb is.

Originally posted by A-R-S:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Alex Smith.

I'm not even joking.

Great QBs make their lines look great by getting rid of the ball quickly to the optimal read. Listening to Steve Young on KNBR multiple times he talks about play at the NFL level being so fast certain QBs can learn to process information that quickly and certain QBs can't. Alex can't. It's likely that no QB on our current roster can.

Bad QBs = bad offensive line everytime. Put Peyton Manning in a 49er uniform and you'll see what I'm talking about. The line would all the sudden look much better.

lol. are you serious?

Chilo Rachal is the worst right guard in the NFL, and Anthony Davis is the worst right tackle in the NFL. (but they're young, blah, whatever they're trash)

Staley is overrated, and Baas and Iupati aren't very good.

Know what you get when you add all that up? The worst o-line in the NFL.

Know what happens when you have the worst O-line in the NFL? You're offense sucks balls. I don't care who you're qb is.

You are so naive. Look what the Colts and Saints do with low pick and undrafted FA O linemen. Why? They have a qb who knows how to read defenses and get rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds.

The Niners have spent so many resources on the line, it now comes down to coaching and schemes.

Staley, Iupati, Davis, all first rounders.

Baas, Smiley (from past) Rachal all top 40 picks.

Originally posted by A-R-S:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Alex Smith.

I'm not even joking.

Great QBs make their lines look great by getting rid of the ball quickly to the optimal read. Listening to Steve Young on KNBR multiple times he talks about play at the NFL level being so fast certain QBs can learn to process information that quickly and certain QBs can't. Alex can't. It's likely that no QB on our current roster can.

Bad QBs = bad offensive line everytime. Put Peyton Manning in a 49er uniform and you'll see what I'm talking about. The line would all the sudden look much better.

lol. are you serious?

Chilo Rachal is the worst right guard in the NFL, and Anthony Davis is the worst right tackle in the NFL. (but they're young, blah, whatever they're trash)

Staley is overrated, and Baas and Iupati aren't very good.

Know what you get when you add all that up? The worst o-line in the NFL.

Know what happens when you have the worst O-line in the NFL? You're offense sucks balls. I don't care who you're qb is.

so the offense would look no better with Peyton Manning? Um..., sure...