Change at QB WILL FIX EVERYTHING?

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Lets rephrase.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers was our starting QB, would we be 0-5 ?

/endthread

Manning playing? Yes we would be 0-5. You didn't see him playing KC I take it.

Rodgers on this team it's a good bet that if Manning would go 0-5 with this team that Rodgers would be 0-5.

Brees probably 2-3 or 3-2. But then you have to remember our OC through the 1st 3 games was Run it up the Gut Raye. So I say 2-3. Brees isn't better than Manning but he is more mobile. Manning would try to audible his way out of jams but that would lead to False Start penalties.

And Brady? W/O Bellicheat? Sorry but I don't believe that he would be anything more than 0-5. Especially when you stop to consider the play caller.

You'd be hard pressed to have winning records with these guys imho. I'm not saying that Smith is better. I'm saying that if you put the standards that Smith is having to play under to the guys listed, they would be in similar boats.

Manning would not be able to audible out. Smith can do it at home but on the road with the crowd noise and 8 and 9 guys stacked in the box opposite him they lose. No question in my mind. Qwest field and Arrowhead are two of the noisiest stadiums in the league. No way Manning Audibles there on this team.

Brees plays in a WCO so he has the ability to set up the Run with the Saints. We play in a numbers system that I do not believe he would be better than Smith in. But I would give him the Iggles game and the Falcons games as Wins. He wouldn't have beaten his own Defense. They were stunting all game long primarily cause Smith KNOWS this offense and was taking them out of their element when they blitzed constantly and he made them pay for it. We lost that game by 3 lousy points in any case.

Our biggest Losses were in the loudest of venues.

Smith has 3 Losses by a combined 8 points. That s**t happens to even good QBs'. Look what happened to Brees IN Atlanta. Look what happened to Manning @ Home.

And Rodgers is playing in the WCO as well. He would not be able to deal with this Numbers Offense, crowd noise AND a young OLine. For Smith this Line is pretty decent because he's always had crappy Lines. Rodgers would get smeared Under Center with this team. You can balieve that.

~Ceadder

WOW! Teams wouldn't stack the box against Manning. That's suicide. He'll beat your brains in if you pack the box. You give him a 1-1 matchup he's going to beat it. Michael Crabtree wants to be a b*tch and not practice Manning will make sure he's not on the field. He can pull guys off the street and turn them into Pro Bowl caliber receivers.

BTW Drew Brees was a Pro Bowl quarterback while playing under Marty ball.

Manning without Dallas Clark in blitz situations is not the same QB.

And if you think that waiver wire receivers can play make the Pro Bowl with Manning, just go back and look how good he was before Harrison and friends joined the team. Also consider the quality of the OL that Manning has had. Every year he has had a Pro Bowl player in the OL. Jeff Saturday is one of the top three centers in the league. His blocking calls are a major reason Manning has never lost game time.

You guys don't seem to recognize how dependent even an elite QB is on the players around him. Manning can't block, can't run patterns, and up until recently, he didn't call the plays.

Put Manning on the 49ers six years ago and he might be out of football by now. He would be bashed and broken and would have been committed to an insane asylum if he would have had to work with the OCs that have come through this franchise during that time frame.

McCarthy proved to be good but was working with junk in his first season. Turner had better results but with somewhat better talent. Since then it has been Pop Warner or less...

*head explodes*

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Lets rephrase.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers was our starting QB, would we be 0-5 ?

/endthread

Manning playing? Yes we would be 0-5. You didn't see him playing KC I take it.

Rodgers on this team it's a good bet that if Manning would go 0-5 with this team that Rodgers would be 0-5.

Brees probably 2-3 or 3-2. But then you have to remember our OC through the 1st 3 games was Run it up the Gut Raye. So I say 2-3. Brees isn't better than Manning but he is more mobile. Manning would try to audible his way out of jams but that would lead to False Start penalties.

And Brady? W/O Bellicheat? Sorry but I don't believe that he would be anything more than 0-5. Especially when you stop to consider the play caller.

You'd be hard pressed to have winning records with these guys imho. I'm not saying that Smith is better. I'm saying that if you put the standards that Smith is having to play under to the guys listed, they would be in similar boats.

Manning would not be able to audible out. Smith can do it at home but on the road with the crowd noise and 8 and 9 guys stacked in the box opposite him they lose. No question in my mind. Qwest field and Arrowhead are two of the noisiest stadiums in the league. No way Manning Audibles there on this team.

Brees plays in a WCO so he has the ability to set up the Run with the Saints. We play in a numbers system that I do not believe he would be better than Smith in. But I would give him the Iggles game and the Falcons games as Wins. He wouldn't have beaten his own Defense. They were stunting all game long primarily cause Smith KNOWS this offense and was taking them out of their element when they blitzed constantly and he made them pay for it. We lost that game by 3 lousy points in any case.

Our biggest Losses were in the loudest of venues.

Smith has 3 Losses by a combined 8 points. That s**t happens to even good QBs'. Look what happened to Brees IN Atlanta. Look what happened to Manning @ Home.

And Rodgers is playing in the WCO as well. He would not be able to deal with this Numbers Offense, crowd noise AND a young OLine. For Smith this Line is pretty decent because he's always had crappy Lines. Rodgers would get smeared Under Center with this team. You can balieve that.

~Ceadder

And this is why I think twice before responding to your posts.

Instead of holding Smith accountable for his mistakes, you bring down the level of play of other good QBs in the league. Right, cause Manning/Brady would give us the same offensive output as Smith. Get real..........

I did no such thing. I put them in the same circumstances Smith is in. If that doesn't meet your inflated scenario, maybe you should think before you start floating names out there.

Only person that MAY have a winning record imho, is Favre and that's only cause he's a gun slinger QB. He wouldn't care if he threw 1 or 10 INTs' in a game. He'd just keep at you until the game ended in his favor.

Brady has a solid Line.

So does Manning.

Rodgers Line is better than ours is but you would disagree.

And we know the Saints Line is better than ours.

So if you're going to say these guys would have winning records with THIS team that includes the Line. Their Lines are not personal appendages they can stuff into their Uniform and inflate in case of emergency as ours fails.

Obviously you don't get that.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
4 Ints because of Tree(seems to have worked itself out)
5 Fumbles because of Gore.
1 Fumble due to Walker.
1 Fumble from Clements.

That's 8 turnovers left 4 of which are DEFINITELY on Smith.

So Smith has 4 definite to his credit.

So changing QB is really going to fix a big part of the problem? Don't make me laugh.

~Ceadder

Beautiful, you should be a lawyer.

Jeez! All I can respond with is WOW! The guy has 9 INTs and 1 fumble, and you think he is only to blame for 4? That is just amazing...

3 INTs' were DEFINITELY Smith's fault. 2 to Gore. And one that was headed to Morgan that got picked cleanly off the carpet.

1 Fumble was DEFINITELY Smith's fault.

Tree caused FOUR of his Interceptions.

That's 8 Turnovers.

The final one being to Ginn who I think should have turned around earlier. I think that if Ginn had indeed turned around when he was supposed to that he should have been able to make a play on the ball. That one to me is 50/50 because I played Receiver and IMHO that's on both of them. Was it underthrown? Possibly. But my job as a Receiver on a Go route is to look back when I near the end of my route. Ginn didn't turn around until it was too late for him to catch the Pass. Smith COULD have gone to Davis but Collinsworth pointed out that Davis was covered too. The INT did set Davis up for a later attempt on the same play though so all was not completely f@cked up by that INT.

Oh and as a former Receiver, I will call em all straight up instead of dropping it all in the QBs' lap.

T.O. used to do that crap to Garcia all the time when he would tip uncatchable Passes up in the air and man it pisses me off when other Receivers do it too. So as a rule I don't play that garbage. Be straight up. Your Receiver goes to the turf because he slipped is that the QBs' fault on timing routes? Nope. How bout when it hits them in the numbers? Nope. Sorry but those are all on Tree. Just like when he overran his route to the Sideline instead of cutting it off at the break. When you are unprepared it shows up in your technique EVERY time.

~Ceadder

Oh Ceadder, are you related to Smith or something? I just don't understand the blind homerism...

All 4 INTs to crabtree were off-target throws. The first off his shoulder(SEA), the second off target (crabtree, smith, and Sing acknowledged Crabtree ran the correct route)(SEA), the third was more of a great defensive play (but still thrown by Smith)(KC), and I am not sure what #4 is... I hope your not removing blame from Smith for the tipped Dline ball

As far as the Ginn INT, please rewatch the highlight. The pass was short, and a bad read at that. Ginn was covered, and the only place the ball should have been thrown is the corner of the end zone, not 5 yards inside the sideline, wayyy short.

If you really can't see this, then it is a difference of you saying toe-mah-toe and me saying toe-may-toe

Originally posted by HessianDud:
No. it won't fix our tackling or create turnovers on D, wont fix our coaching, organization structure, Gore's fumbles, Anthony Davis' blocking, and it won't utilize Westbrook or release Norris, and it won't bring back MRob.

Could have ended the thread here.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Lets rephrase.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers was our starting QB, would we be 0-5 ?

/endthread

Manning playing? Yes we would be 0-5. You didn't see him playing KC I take it.

Rodgers on this team it's a good bet that if Manning would go 0-5 with this team that Rodgers would be 0-5.

Brees probably 2-3 or 3-2. But then you have to remember our OC through the 1st 3 games was Run it up the Gut Raye. So I say 2-3. Brees isn't better than Manning but he is more mobile. Manning would try to audible his way out of jams but that would lead to False Start penalties.

And Brady? W/O Bellicheat? Sorry but I don't believe that he would be anything more than 0-5. Especially when you stop to consider the play caller.

You'd be hard pressed to have winning records with these guys imho. I'm not saying that Smith is better. I'm saying that if you put the standards that Smith is having to play under to the guys listed, they would be in similar boats.

Manning would not be able to audible out. Smith can do it at home but on the road with the crowd noise and 8 and 9 guys stacked in the box opposite him they lose. No question in my mind. Qwest field and Arrowhead are two of the noisiest stadiums in the league. No way Manning Audibles there on this team.

Brees plays in a WCO so he has the ability to set up the Run with the Saints. We play in a numbers system that I do not believe he would be better than Smith in. But I would give him the Iggles game and the Falcons games as Wins. He wouldn't have beaten his own Defense. They were stunting all game long primarily cause Smith KNOWS this offense and was taking them out of their element when they blitzed constantly and he made them pay for it. We lost that game by 3 lousy points in any case.

Our biggest Losses were in the loudest of venues.

Smith has 3 Losses by a combined 8 points. That s**t happens to even good QBs'. Look what happened to Brees IN Atlanta. Look what happened to Manning @ Home.

And Rodgers is playing in the WCO as well. He would not be able to deal with this Numbers Offense, crowd noise AND a young OLine. For Smith this Line is pretty decent because he's always had crappy Lines. Rodgers would get smeared Under Center with this team. You can balieve that.

~Ceadder

And this is why I think twice before responding to your posts.

Instead of holding Smith accountable for his mistakes, you bring down the level of play of other good QBs in the league. Right, cause Manning/Brady would give us the same offensive output as Smith. Get real..........

I did no such thing. I put them in the same circumstances Smith is in. If that doesn't meet your inflated scenario, maybe you should think before you start floating names out there.

Only person that MAY have a winning record imho, is Favre and that's only cause he's a gun slinger QB. He wouldn't care if he threw 1 or 10 INTs' in a game. He'd just keep at you until the game ended in his favor.

Brady has a solid Line.

So does Manning.

Rodgers Line is better than ours is but you would disagree.

And we know the Saints Line is better than ours.

So if you're going to say these guys would have winning records with THIS team that includes the Line. Their Lines are not personal appendages they can stuff into their Uniform and inflate in case of emergency as ours fails.

Obviously you don't get that.

~Ceadder

Look at how many debates you have going on in this thread alone. You're blaming the oline vs. me.

Then you're blaming Crabtree vs. another poster.

You're blaming the OC in another thread.

Just give up already. How can someone debate against a poster who thinks PEYTON MANNING would be just as bad if he was on this roster ? Your comments are comical at best......

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Dear Ceadder,

Where do you work? Are you hiring? I would LOVE for you to be my manager, and pay me tons of money and make excuses for my perennial ineptness for over half a decade. I'll have a great attitude though, and I'll give you all the reasons to blame other people, while I personally navigate your department into the toilet.

Let me know!

Shaj

Dear Shaj;

Yes we are hiring but I regret to inform you that you couldn't cut it to our standards as we deal with the public daily. After reading your negative posts here I'm afraid you would be a liability and possibly end up shooting everyone in the store one day. With the current gun control issues being put before Congress and the President, we feel that your liability would cost not only the company a lot of money but the country the 2nd amendment.

We are especially concerned that if Alex Smith ever walked into our store you would try to take him out. And that could be a negative outlook to our generally sunny disposition.

However, in the future should you seek counseling and can show us that you have indeed turned your life around please apply again. We would be happy to grant you an interview but would require the necessary documentation showing that you have met these requirements.

Good day.

~Ceadder

Lol, even I have to admit that was pretty funny.... now back to the point!

Originally posted by ZRF80:
When Alex caught fire near the end of the game, did you people see how the team responded ? All of a sudden, the momentum shifted to the Niners. The D stepped up, STs came through, and the oline became more effective.

This was the SAME Niners roster that had gone 0-4, and all of a sudden they looked like an unstoppable force.

The QB can do a lot to swing MOMENTUM to the team's side. Consider the game opener vs. Seattle. The Niners had put up almost 150 yards of offense in the first quarter. The Seahawks were reeling, and the announcers couldnt stop gushing at how good the Niners looked. All of a sudden, QB starts making mistakes.....momentum switches to Seattle....defense cant hold, and we get crushed.

The same was true in KC, where our D held the Chiefs in check in the opening quarter. We couldnt capitalize, and what do you know....the Chiefs crush us.

All of these "problems" can be attributed to Alex Smith. Whne he plays well, the team looks unstoppable, do you disagree ? Yet, when he struggles...everything falls apart.

I disagree, because he brought us back in the NO game, the D, didnt play lights out when we needed them. In the KC, u have the nerve brotha to focus on the offense. f**k the offense, the Defense got beat up worse than Rodney King in LA. Against the Falcons, we held them all game, just at the end when we needed to get tighter as a unit, we didnt.

Now see im not dilusional in thinking that Smith is none of the problem. Ray Charles could see that one, however that "all" the problems fall on Smith is invalid. And i only say that because even here in the posts almost 70% to 30%. Which means the avg doesnt feel that with a change at QB, a lot would change. Some stuff yeah, but enough to make a real difference Hell no. And this aint opinion, it's facts from the percentage on this post.

Imma say this, then let it go I just want to win fellas. I dont give a s**t if ronald mcdonald is our QB. My personal opinion is that if Smith is no longer on the team, that it wont improve the pass rush, or pass defense, or help the run game, or help special teams make a FG. I would say it's all and only on Alex if all this would miraculously improve after he was gone. I just dont think thats realistic. And also if just making a QB change is gonna improve a little. Nah, since we say standards here, i want an improvement that would take us over the top, not just mask another problem.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Lets rephrase.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers was our starting QB, would we be 0-5 ?

/endthread

Manning playing? Yes we would be 0-5. You didn't see him playing KC I take it.

Rodgers on this team it's a good bet that if Manning would go 0-5 with this team that Rodgers would be 0-5.

Brees probably 2-3 or 3-2. But then you have to remember our OC through the 1st 3 games was Run it up the Gut Raye. So I say 2-3. Brees isn't better than Manning but he is more mobile. Manning would try to audible his way out of jams but that would lead to False Start penalties.

And Brady? W/O Bellicheat? Sorry but I don't believe that he would be anything more than 0-5. Especially when you stop to consider the play caller.

You'd be hard pressed to have winning records with these guys imho. I'm not saying that Smith is better. I'm saying that if you put the standards that Smith is having to play under to the guys listed, they would be in similar boats.

Manning would not be able to audible out. Smith can do it at home but on the road with the crowd noise and 8 and 9 guys stacked in the box opposite him they lose. No question in my mind. Qwest field and Arrowhead are two of the noisiest stadiums in the league. No way Manning Audibles there on this team.

Brees plays in a WCO so he has the ability to set up the Run with the Saints. We play in a numbers system that I do not believe he would be better than Smith in. But I would give him the Iggles game and the Falcons games as Wins. He wouldn't have beaten his own Defense. They were stunting all game long primarily cause Smith KNOWS this offense and was taking them out of their element when they blitzed constantly and he made them pay for it. We lost that game by 3 lousy points in any case.

Our biggest Losses were in the loudest of venues.

Smith has 3 Losses by a combined 8 points. That s**t happens to even good QBs'. Look what happened to Brees IN Atlanta. Look what happened to Manning @ Home.

And Rodgers is playing in the WCO as well. He would not be able to deal with this Numbers Offense, crowd noise AND a young OLine. For Smith this Line is pretty decent because he's always had crappy Lines. Rodgers would get smeared Under Center with this team. You can balieve that.

~Ceadder

WOW! Teams wouldn't stack the box against Manning. That's suicide. He'll beat your brains in if you pack the box. You give him a 1-1 matchup he's going to beat it. Michael Crabtree wants to be a b*tch and not practice Manning will make sure he's not on the field. He can pull guys off the street and turn them into Pro Bowl caliber receivers.

BTW Drew Brees was a Pro Bowl quarterback while playing under Marty ball.

Better go back and look at the tape on the KC game. Manning threw an INT and ZERO Touchdowns becuase KC stacked the box.

Brees couldn't play behind a Sieve OLine and had a hard time playing in the numbers Offense. Which I take it is your argument here? He had 1 good season and that was only after they took Rivers with their 1st overall by trade. He had decent seasons before then but nothing spectacular.

And of note I did say that he would probably have a 2-3 record with this team.

~Ceadder

You're trying to use ONE game as your example for Peyton Manning. Nevermind his brilliant career I have evidence that he wouldn't succeed here based on this one game.

Historically teams don't beat Peyton by stacking the box or throwing the house at him. They beat him by dropping guys back and then confusing the line. That's why he's struggled against 3-4 teams throughout his career. You can blitz 4 guys and still create enough pressure based on confusion. Romeo Crennel has always had Peyton Manning's number.

As for Brees one Pro Bowl season in a digit offense is still light years ahead of Alex.

Ummmm we were talking about THIS season. ON THIS TEAM NO LESS. You cannot go back and change the game just cause you don't like the outcome. Sorry.

Oh and again VIDEOGATE, don't play it off that Romeo has always had his number. I guarantee that the Pasties were doing that even before that season. But it was said you wouldn't stack the box on Manning. They did and the Colts lost. Argument deflated with a Ginsu steak knife.

That's why Brady gets zero recognition from me. When you have the Opponents calls and schemes on tape, you can pretty much negate whatever they're throwing at you.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by dj43:


And if you think that waiver wire receivers can play make the Pro Bowl with Manning, just go back and look how good he was before Harrison and friends joined the team. Also consider the quality of the OL that Manning has had. Every year he has had a Pro Bowl player in the OL. Jeff Saturday is one of the top three centers in the league. His blocking calls are a major reason Manning has never lost game time.

Harrison was drafted two years before Manning.

The Colts have had major issues at both OG and OT since Tarik Glenn retired. They've cut several "starters" the past few years. And their GM basically blamed their SB loss on the OL last year.

Yet you're telling ppl to do some research?

LMAO

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
4 Ints because of Tree(seems to have worked itself out)
5 Fumbles because of Gore.
1 Fumble due to Walker.
1 Fumble from Clements.

That's 8 turnovers left 4 of which are DEFINITELY on Smith.

So Smith has 4 definite to his credit.

So changing QB is really going to fix a big part of the problem? Don't make me laugh.

~Ceadder

You would have a good point if what you stated was even remotely accurate. First, according to NFL.com stats page Gore has 3 fumbles, as we know two were in 1 game. What fuzzy math are you using to come up with 5? Plus, you are crediting 4 of Alex's ints on Crabtree? Sorry, but that's just funny. You reach more than anyone else on this board to twist facts and stats for your boy Alex. Why stop there? Why not just make all of Alex's ints and fumbles blamed on someone else?

Thanks for the laugh though

LB

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Lets rephrase.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers was our starting QB, would we be 0-5 ?

/endthread

Manning playing? Yes we would be 0-5. You didn't see him playing KC I take it.

Rodgers on this team it's a good bet that if Manning would go 0-5 with this team that Rodgers would be 0-5.

Brees probably 2-3 or 3-2. But then you have to remember our OC through the 1st 3 games was Run it up the Gut Raye. So I say 2-3. Brees isn't better than Manning but he is more mobile. Manning would try to audible his way out of jams but that would lead to False Start penalties.

And Brady? W/O Bellicheat? Sorry but I don't believe that he would be anything more than 0-5. Especially when you stop to consider the play caller.

You'd be hard pressed to have winning records with these guys imho. I'm not saying that Smith is better. I'm saying that if you put the standards that Smith is having to play under to the guys listed, they would be in similar boats.

Manning would not be able to audible out. Smith can do it at home but on the road with the crowd noise and 8 and 9 guys stacked in the box opposite him they lose. No question in my mind. Qwest field and Arrowhead are two of the noisiest stadiums in the league. No way Manning Audibles there on this team.

Brees plays in a WCO so he has the ability to set up the Run with the Saints. We play in a numbers system that I do not believe he would be better than Smith in. But I would give him the Iggles game and the Falcons games as Wins. He wouldn't have beaten his own Defense. They were stunting all game long primarily cause Smith KNOWS this offense and was taking them out of their element when they blitzed constantly and he made them pay for it. We lost that game by 3 lousy points in any case.

Our biggest Losses were in the loudest of venues.

Smith has 3 Losses by a combined 8 points. That s**t happens to even good QBs'. Look what happened to Brees IN Atlanta. Look what happened to Manning @ Home.

And Rodgers is playing in the WCO as well. He would not be able to deal with this Numbers Offense, crowd noise AND a young OLine. For Smith this Line is pretty decent because he's always had crappy Lines. Rodgers would get smeared Under Center with this team. You can balieve that.

~Ceadder

WOW! Teams wouldn't stack the box against Manning. That's suicide. He'll beat your brains in if you pack the box. You give him a 1-1 matchup he's going to beat it. Michael Crabtree wants to be a b*tch and not practice Manning will make sure he's not on the field. He can pull guys off the street and turn them into Pro Bowl caliber receivers.

BTW Drew Brees was a Pro Bowl quarterback while playing under Marty ball.

Manning without Dallas Clark in blitz situations is not the same QB.

And if you think that waiver wire receivers can play make the Pro Bowl with Manning, just go back and look how good he was before Harrison and friends joined the team. Also consider the quality of the OL that Manning has had. Every year he has had a Pro Bowl player in the OL. Jeff Saturday is one of the top three centers in the league. His blocking calls are a major reason Manning has never lost game time.

You guys don't seem to recognize how dependent even an elite QB is on the players around him. Manning can't block, can't run patterns, and up until recently, he didn't call the plays.

Put Manning on the 49ers six years ago and he might be out of football by now. He would be bashed and broken and would have been committed to an insane asylum if he would have had to work with the OCs that have come through this franchise during that time frame.

McCarthy proved to be good but was working with junk in his first season. Turner had better results but with somewhat better talent. Since then it has been Pop Warner or less...

*head explodes*

Marvin Harrison was on the Colts before Peyton arrived so I'm assuming you mean Wayne and Clark. Clark didn't break 600 yards til his 5th season in the league. The guy has been hurt before and Stokely just took over his role.

Peyton Manning made the Pro Bowl in his 2nd and 3rd season and the Colts made the playoffs both of those years as well. He had one bad season since his rookie year (year 4) and in every other season he was a Pro Bowler and the Colts made the playoffs.

As for his offensive line. Overrated since Glenn retired. They've been one of the worse rushing teams in football the past few years and Peyton has to operate out of the Shotgun the entire time. Outside of Jeff Saturday it's a bunch of nobody's.

[ Edited by tjd808185 on Oct 14, 2010 at 11:59:01 ]

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Jeez! All I can respond with is WOW! The guy has 9 INTs and 1 fumble, and you think he is only to blame for 4? That is just amazing...

My receivers coach in high school had this saying: "If you can get your hands on the ball, it should be a catch"

At least 4 of those INTs were touched/tipped/dropped by his own guys into the hands of an opposing player. My opinion...they weren't his fault. Even if the pass was a little off, the receiver needed to adjust to the pass, and in the case that they couldn't secure it, they needed to make sure the defense didn't have a chance to nab it. Fail on both counts by those receivers.

I agree with you on this one. The key word being "hands" as in plural, meaning both. The tipped passes were so off the mark that only one hand was on the ball, therefore by your own coach's statement, the interceptions are Alex's fault.

LB

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Well jerseyan, let me know if u notice this. Rodgers, FAvre, each last game they played, they threw an INT on the winning drive. FAvre threw the losing int in the SB or playoffs i dont even remember. So even HOF qb's f**k up at crucial points, and he's neither. I'm just showing even the best f**k up at crunch time, trying to do too much.

The NO game, say what u want, but when we scored and converted the 2pt conversion. LOOk of sure beauty. U left out how the D, failed to make a stop. I like P. Manning better than Brees. So last year we can hold him all game, but not stop Brees. The D cost us that one. Smith put the team and the impossible wasnt soo much scoring a TD, it was also converting on 2pts. And the burning the clock, you'd have to be STUPID, and yeah i said STUPID, to worry about the clock. You score than leave it up to ur D, which is why they get paid too.

Game 3, not notice, u pointed to first half. Still a whole entire half left. 3rd quarter, still entire 4th quarter left. Games arent always gonna be blowouts, and it's the close games that u can win, that really separate the playoff teams from the avg. to below avg teams. Say what u want Smith didnt play great, but if the D would of held, we may have won that too.

And i wont go to 4 or 5 either than. My point is, there are such things as close games. And u guys dont like it, but HOF players alike said this all last year, and i know cuz i posted it. "I dont care if we win a game by 1pt or .5 pts., what counts in this league is W's and L's, and if we got the W, thats all that counts." See some of ya'll go into the specifics, but i look at it like this.

If it's a close game, going into the 4th quarter, and both offenses and defenses, never break, then in my opinion its which team wants it more that simple. And on offense and on defense, whats the main word for this season FINISHING. If we are up 14-10 4th quarter with 4 minutes left, then I dont care what anyone says, Im not wrong for wanting my D to step up and finish, just like some of u say with the O.

So to end it, he may not have played great, and all im saying is, ya'll hold onto turnovers, when some happen waaay before the half, and still talk about em after when u have an entire 2nd half left. You gotta let go of that s**t, and try to play a better half. Good teams dont complain if they win by 1pt. We just lose by 1pt, thats why a lot of us b***h.

You are using singular examples and attempting to apply it to the way Smith has played for 5 games. Favre in 2009 was a fluke, and it looks as though he is returning to his form prior to that. I can't disagree that the best f**k up at crucial moments, but they don't do it consistently....

Smith does it consistently. He doesn't put us in position to win games. The only time we have been in position to win this year is ATL. Ofcourse I want our D to step up, and ofcourse they have been letting us down. The point is, when you give teams enough opportunities to score, even the worst teams eventually will. With Smith at the helm, it doesn't seem to matter how many opportunities we get, something always falls through...

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
4 Ints because of Tree(seems to have worked itself out)
5 Fumbles because of Gore.
1 Fumble due to Walker.
1 Fumble from Clements.

That's 8 turnovers left 4 of which are DEFINITELY on Smith.

So Smith has 4 definite to his credit.

So changing QB is really going to fix a big part of the problem? Don't make me laugh.

~Ceadder

Beautiful, you should be a lawyer.

Jeez! All I can respond with is WOW! The guy has 9 INTs and 1 fumble, and you think he is only to blame for 4? That is just amazing...

3 INTs' were DEFINITELY Smith's fault. 2 to Gore. And one that was headed to Morgan that got picked cleanly off the carpet.

1 Fumble was DEFINITELY Smith's fault.

Tree caused FOUR of his Interceptions.

That's 8 Turnovers.

The final one being to Ginn who I think should have turned around earlier. I think that if Ginn had indeed turned around when he was supposed to that he should have been able to make a play on the ball. That one to me is 50/50 because I played Receiver and IMHO that's on both of them. Was it underthrown? Possibly. But my job as a Receiver on a Go route is to look back when I near the end of my route. Ginn didn't turn around until it was too late for him to catch the Pass. Smith COULD have gone to Davis but Collinsworth pointed out that Davis was covered too. The INT did set Davis up for a later attempt on the same play though so all was not completely f@cked up by that INT.

Oh and as a former Receiver, I will call em all straight up instead of dropping it all in the QBs' lap.

T.O. used to do that crap to Garcia all the time when he would tip uncatchable Passes up in the air and man it pisses me off when other Receivers do it too. So as a rule I don't play that garbage. Be straight up. Your Receiver goes to the turf because he slipped is that the QBs' fault on timing routes? Nope. How bout when it hits them in the numbers? Nope. Sorry but those are all on Tree. Just like when he overran his route to the Sideline instead of cutting it off at the break. When you are unprepared it shows up in your technique EVERY time.

~Ceadder

Oh Ceadder, are you related to Smith or something? I just don't understand the blind homerism...

All 4 INTs to crabtree were off-target throws. The first off his shoulder(SEA), the second off target (crabtree, smith, and Sing acknowledged Crabtree ran the correct route)(SEA), the third was more of a great defensive play (but still thrown by Smith)(KC), and I am not sure what #4 is... I hope your not removing blame from Smith for the tipped Dline ball

As far as the Ginn INT, please rewatch the highlight. The pass was short, and a bad read at that. Ginn was covered, and the only place the ball should have been thrown is the corner of the end zone, not 5 yards inside the sideline, wayyy short.

If you really can't see this, then it is a difference of you saying toe-mah-toe and me saying toe-may-toe

The one on the shoulder pad was that off target?

Cannot say that 3 of them were definitively off target cause Tree was laying on the grass.

Nor the one where he overran his route.

So technically that would be 5. I blame 4 of them on Tree. If you know the conditions of the field you should not be slipping. Especially if you have interchangeable studs on your feet.

Now if this is an equipment issue and Tree did notify the Equipment Manager, then I can't say with 100% certainty that it was all on Tree. But I definitely cannot put it on the QB because the Pass is supposed to be out of there before the Receiver cuts his route off or completes the exchange. I do think that 1 of the Interceptions was an early hit by the DB. Which is why I don't count 1. I do try to be fair accross the board. Not just where Smith is concerned.

Anyone that Posted in the Harris threads knows that I try to be fair. This is not just a Smith issue where I am concerned. I wish people would stop insinuating that it is. It's not.

~Ceadder

Would change nothing, our o-line is the problem and has been for a few years now, thats why we drafted two in the first round. Once they get settled in and the coaching staff gets chilo's head out their ass, they will gel and then they will continue to get better. Im just hoping it happens this year and we dont fire anyone, Our D also hasnt been playing up to par but that coincides with the offense and the million turnovers caused by pressure mostly, Just think you take away all those pressure turnovers and its not that bad, we probably would be sitting at 3-2 right now.Its hard to constantly be on the field defending the short field. Also ive noticed our D isnt as aggresive as last year i think that has to do with being afraid of making a mistake and playing it safe...
This mostly all stems from the o-line, Once they are gelled I believe we have a dangerous offense, i mean already in the 2 minute drill we dominate, and in the redzone we pretty darn good.. with our return game finally looking pretty good with ginn, man i wouldnt want to defend us..