We should stop the 2 TE set madness.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by crabman82:
i dont get the hate for delanie walker, he has made plays when he has been given the ball, ppl can complain about him not being "clutch", but we just spent 3 years paying our #1 tight end elite money and watching him drop passes jump offside get injured and get kicked off the field during a game, by his own coach no less. point being it took VD 3 years of starting to figure it out, i dont think walker is on the field enough to get the proper expierience

I don't think people hate him I just think people want to have a more wide open offense when we're passing the ball.

You don't run the spread out of 2 Tight End sets. Morgan, Crabtree, Davis, Walker is a very slow formation.

Having linebackers covering Davis and Walker in open space is kind of a mismatch...

The problem is there's no speed on the field and teams will continue to leave their safeties to help cover Davis.

There's not a coach in football whose scared of Delanie Walker. The guy is what he is. A back up tight end. Wes Welker on a linebacker is a mismatch. Delanie Walker on a linebacker is good for 200 yards a season if we're lucky.

+1. Delanie never seems to get open against these linebackers. s**t, his fumble against Philly was terrible too. Vd, crabs, even Morgan get open and Alex was able
to find all of them, shy not Delanie? He had plenty of opportunities. I'd rather see 3wr + vd or 4wr+vd instead of Walker unless he proves to consistently beat coverage, which till now he hasn't.

Originally posted by ttime1:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by Walsh:
Right now our talent at Tight End looks like this Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Nate Byham, J.J. Finely, Tony Curtis. Not too impressive.

But assuming Crabtree and Morgan are starting then the competition for that 3rd spot looks like this J. Hill, Kyle Williams, Jared Perry, Jason Hill, Dominique Zeigler, Shay Hodge, Ted Ginn, Jr., Brandon Jones, and Scott Long.

Personally, I think Ginn wins the 3rd spot and spreads out opponents defenses and D. Walker can sit this season out.

What exactly has Ginn done as a WR except play so badly that the Dolphins were willing to let a former top 10 pick go for a 5th round pick notwithstanding that he is one of the better return guys in the league?

He only has the best statistical year of any wr on the team.

That's not exactly right. Ginn's best year was 2008 when in 16 games he had 56 catches, 790 yards and 2 TDs. Last year in 11 games, coming off the foot injury, without a training camp, in 11 games, Crabtree had 48 catches for 625 yards and 2 TDs. Moreover, Morgan in 2009 had better numbers that Ginn had in 2009 and had more TDs (3) in his first season starting that Ginn has had in any of his 3 seasons.

Ginn's speed can help open up the field and if he can beat out Morgan for the #2 WR position then so be it, but looking at just the raw stats in debating whether the 49ers should use a 3 WR set vs. the 2 TE set ignores the realities of the NFL. Pro football is not baseball. Stats are important but there is a lot more to it. Walker in the 2 TE set creates match-up problems for the defense. Do they play run or pass? Its a tough call and creates match-up problems for the defense.

The 3 WR set will have its place in the 49ers offense, as does the 2 TE set but the 49ers are not going to suddenly become a 3 WR base offense because they picked up Ginn, who flamed out as a WR in Miami in 3 years after being the #9 overall pick in the draft.

2 TE sets create several things, including extra blocking in the running game, and mismatches. With the drafting of Byham, I would expect to see more 2 TE sets, not less.

Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:

Originally posted by Walsh:
Right now our talent at Tight End looks like this Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Nate Byham, J.J. Finely, Tony Curtis. Not too impressive.

But assuming Crabtree and Morgan are starting then the competition for that 3rd spot looks like this J. Hill, Kyle Williams, Jared Perry, Jason Hill, Dominique Zeigler, Shay Hodge, Ted Ginn, Jr., Brandon Jones, and Scott Long.

Personally, I think Ginn wins the 3rd spot and spreads out opponents defenses and D. Walker can sit this season out.

wow really?

Yeah I'm with diva on this one. We have the beat TE in the league. A very serviceable athletic 2 in walker and Byham, who I think could be a very very good blocking 3.

Originally posted by Dominate:
Without going into it to much. The 2 TE set is a great formation for our team. You can run and pass out of it and its a power formation. But you can quickly turn it into a heavy pass formation. You show the 2 TE set to the defense and they come out in their base package(43 or 34). Then you split VD and Dlove out wide and suddenly you have a 4 WR set with dlove and VD covered by LBs. You can even empty the backfield and swing Gore out wide to make it a 5 WR set. Thats what you call a miss match, advantage 49ers.

You can do a lot with the 2 TE set and I say it stays.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by mighty9ers:
i totally disagree. Love Walker and we need to continue to use him. He is great in the 2 TE set. I would like to see him play more Hback and line up in the back field. not taking hand offs. but blocking and catching passes, which he can do quite well

Walker sucks. When has he ever done anything?

Whenever he's been given the opportunity to.

Originally posted by Walsh:
Right now our talent at Tight End looks like this Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Nate Byham, J.J. Finely, Tony Curtis. Not too impressive.

But assuming Crabtree and Morgan are starting then the competition for that 3rd spot looks like this J. Hill, Kyle Williams, Jared Perry, Jason Hill, Dominique Zeigler, Shay Hodge, Ted Ginn, Jr., Brandon Jones, and Scott Long.

Personally, I think Ginn wins the 3rd spot and spreads out opponents defenses and D. Walker can sit this season out.

I don't understand your question. Are you talking about when they remove the FB and place a 2nd TE, they should place a WR instead?

You could, but the 2nd TE can also serve as an H back, adding more omph if you are going to run, or pull up people into the box so that receivers and VD can get more cushion. Not to mention the pass protection is better served with both the 2nd TE and Gore serving as swing backs coming out of the backfield.

We are not going to full blown run and shoot. We'll mix it up between a spread and conventional pro set.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by crabman82:
i dont get the hate for delanie walker, he has made plays when he has been given the ball, ppl can complain about him not being "clutch", but we just spent 3 years paying our #1 tight end elite money and watching him drop passes jump offside get injured and get kicked off the field during a game, by his own coach no less. point being it took VD 3 years of starting to figure it out, i dont think walker is on the field enough to get the proper expierience

I don't think people hate him I just think people want to have a more wide open offense when we're passing the ball.

You don't run the spread out of 2 Tight End sets. Morgan, Crabtree, Davis, Walker is a very slow formation.

maybe we are just a slow team then cus i believe if u lined up the niners for a race both davis and walker would be in the top 5

2-TE set is awesome. We probably have the 2 fastest TE's in the league so it creates HUGE mismatch problems for a teams secondary.

I don't think we should use it as much as we have in the past, but i dont think we should take it out of the mix all together. Now that we have some speed and depth at WR we need to start doing more 3WR sets. I like the 2 TE set tho because it confuses the defenses to a certain extent. Its more effective to run out of too because a TE is going to be a better blocker than a WR. We def need to be less predictible on offense and this formation could help us do that. We did use it way too often last season tho, that is for sure.

Ok, first off, I know it was a preseason game and all but D-love(stolen from an above thread) shut my mouth with a 100yrd Kick return right as i leaned in and told my girlfriend how dumb it was to have him on the field. I will forever respect Delanie Walker.





Oh, and as for the duel TE formation, also like said above it opens up more options in the offensive passing game.

[ Edited by Ibleedgoldnred on Apr 30, 2010 at 14:14:19 ]

I want to see Byham as the starter in the two TE set formation, and Walker used as a hybrid FB/TE.

But we better start using 3 WR and 4 WR formations on the field because Ginn and Hill/Jones will help open the field. And we also need those WRs to run routes with more variety. It was reported that the routes aren't very spread out from each other.

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Walsh:
Right now our talent at Tight End looks like this Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Nate Byham, J.J. Finely, Tony Curtis. Not too impressive.

But assuming Crabtree and Morgan are starting then the competition for that 3rd spot looks like this J. Hill, Kyle Williams, Jared Perry, Jason Hill, Dominique Zeigler, Shay Hodge, Ted Ginn, Jr., Brandon Jones, and Scott Long.

Personally, I think Ginn wins the 3rd spot and spreads out opponents defenses and D. Walker can sit this season out.

I don't understand your question. Are you talking about when they remove the FB and place a 2nd TE, they should place a WR instead?

You could, but the 2nd TE can also serve as an H back, adding more omph if you are going to run, or pull up people into the box so that receivers and VD can get more cushion. Not to mention the pass protection is better served with both the 2nd TE and Gore serving as swing backs coming out of the backfield.

We are not going to full blown run and shoot. We'll mix it up between a spread and conventional pro set.

Is Walsh the Ghost of Bill or is Donnie posting?

Originally posted by Ibleedgoldnred:
Ok, first off, I know it was a preseason game and all but D-love(stolen from an above thread) shut my mouth with a 100yrd Kick return right as i leaned in and told my girlfriend how dumb it was to have him on the field. I will forever respect Delanie Walker.




Oh, and as for the duel TE formation, also like said above it opens up more options in the offensive passing game.

Nate Kaeding is such a b***h...the least clutch kicker in the league. I'm sure some of those special teams guys trying to make the team didn't appreciate how much of a p***y move that was.

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Walsh:
Right now our talent at Tight End looks like this Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Nate Byham, J.J. Finely, Tony Curtis. Not too impressive.

But assuming Crabtree and Morgan are starting then the competition for that 3rd spot looks like this J. Hill, Kyle Williams, Jared Perry, Jason Hill, Dominique Zeigler, Shay Hodge, Ted Ginn, Jr., Brandon Jones, and Scott Long.

Personally, I think Ginn wins the 3rd spot and spreads out opponents defenses and D. Walker can sit this season out.

I don't understand your question. Are you talking about when they remove the FB and place a 2nd TE, they should place a WR instead?

You could, but the 2nd TE can also serve as an H back, adding more omph if you are going to run, or pull up people into the box so that receivers and VD can get more cushion. Not to mention the pass protection is better served with both the 2nd TE and Gore serving as swing backs coming out of the backfield.

We are not going to full blown run and shoot. We'll mix it up between a spread and conventional pro set.

Yep, more pro set. The 2nd TE pulling the defense to the line is exactly the problem. Get a 3rd wide out with speed that defenses worry will get behind them. It pulls guys off the line and opens things up for Gore. It's not like we have a Vernon Davis clone in Walker. He doesn't do all the things that Davis can do.

You're right about the pass protection. We had to use it last year to help keep Smith off his back. Hopefully Anthony Davis and Iupati solve that problem. Tjd said it best. The TE set is just a slow formation. I think this is the year we have the talent on the line and at WR to do a lot more offensively. We'd better not have drafted 2 offensive line guys in the first to do the exact same thing we did last year. More speed, more unpredictability, more snaps under center, more time for our qb, better run blocking, more scoring!