The "We have to sign our guys" smoke screen

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Sorry but I just don't get this thread.

Most of the quality FA are restricted that means we give up a pick or picks. I would like someone to, instead of talking about all of these "upgrades" that were available as UFA, make the argument(s) which pick or picks was worth ANY UFA available. Price for a RFA isn't just money; I would like to know HOW would that player be a long term significant upgrade not only over who we have starting, but worth the pick(s) AND the price tag. Until this argument is persuasively made, IMHO, the opening position of this thread is incomplete.

Just my 2cents.

The OP was originally just a post in a thread that got locked. I threw it up as a thread mainly because I kept reading how we have to sign our own guys so we can't sign anyone. I always thought that was a bogus/smoke screen arguement. Because my thought was incomplete in the OP, most people took it as I was saying we should go out and sign some big name free agents. It wasn't. I dont know why I have to keep repeating myself.

I challenge anyone to go through the OP point by point and demonstrate it's wrong.

THE THREAD WAS NEVER ABOUT WHAT WE SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T DO IN FA! IT WAS ABOUT THE DUMB SMOKE SCREEN ARGUMENT.

I will agree with you if we let any of the following players leave through FA in the next couple of years:

1. Patrick Willis
2. Vernon Davis
3. Dashon Goldson
4. Ahmad Brooks

Then we got a list of players who will deserve an extension if they perform this year:

1. Alex Smith
2. Manny Lawson
3. Chilo Rachal
4. Josh Morgan
5. Franklin

So, if you look at the big picture, we better not exhaust our money on FAs but keep it to extend our guys. Also, some of the RFAs will be FAs next summer, so it makes sense to save it for next off-season.

After reading all the blogs and post over the last couple of weeks it looks to me that the 49ers front office is making sure their future investments come at a fair price and will stick around to win a few Championships. There's nothing worse then having a cap issue after "a" winning season, so choicing players carfully cant be stressed enough. My hope is for our Niners to be contenders in this upcoming season and if they play thier cards right they could become a resident in the playoffs for years to come and even dare to say bring home a S.B. or two.
I think this years Draft/Free agency is the most important one we've had since S.F. started rebuilding. Sing and company have already laid the foundation with some outstanding Key players and the last thing we need is another J.J. Stokes like draft or F.A. bust which will set us back and add years to our work horse Frank (the tank) Gore. So watching isnt always the worst thing to do before you offer big contracts, I mean, we landed J. Smith at a great price and there just might be another hidden gem like him waiting.

I thought I would pull this blast from the past. This thread was created OVER A YEAR AGO, diffrent year, same story....LOL

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Dude, this thread was created Pre Baalke. This thread started in March of 2010.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Dude, this thread was created Pre Baalke. This thread started in March of 2010.

I'm aware. I'm assuming you resurrected this thread in an attempt to apply the OP's argument to Baalke. I'm simply saying I don't agree.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm so tired of this BS argument. I would like to point out several things.

1. "Our guys" are really only Willis and V.Davis and maybe (I doubt) Franklin. Goldson, Manny and a couple others are second tier FA (They shouldn't break the bank).

2. "Our guys" are very high draft picks (6,11). So they probably already have a relatively large salary. So I'm assuming that when we sign them to a long term deal we are also subtracting the salaries they are currently earning. That makes sense to me.

3. If 2010 was a capped year we would of been 50 million under the cap. I think we've saved enough and have plenty of catching up to do.

4. Outside of Clements (and maybe J.Smith) most of our FA aquisitions have been on the cheap. It's not like our roster is exploding with talent, see point 3. So why are we so broke when teams like the Jets, Dolphins and a few others continue to add talent? Are they all stupid and headed for cap hell?

5. We dont even have a big name QB taking up cap space.

6. If signing Willis and Davis means we can't sign any other great/good free agents than I would just as well see them walk ( really am saying this tongue in cheek).


It was Scotty and Yorks that first fed us this line, dont you think we should at least examine it's merrit?

At the end of the day I get the feeling the Yorks are more interested in running this like a business than winning Super Bowls. Please dont use that statement to assume I mean they should be spending without regard.

Your preaching to the choir brother.

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Dude, this thread was created Pre Baalke. This thread started in March of 2010.

I'm aware. I'm assuming you resurrected this thread in an attempt to apply the OP's argument to Baalke. I'm simply saying I don't agree.

No sir, I resurrected this thread because every year there is an excuse as to why we aren't grabbing players in FA when we have obvious wholes. The last few years it was "we are signing our own guys." Our "own guys" have now left and we have replaced them with scrubs (Grant, Applewhite, Williams) if at all. This year we are more than 20million under the cap, so what's the new excuse? Oh yeah, "we dont want to over pay." With that said, I agree to an extent. But I also think we should be willing to over pay one or two FAs so we dont go into this season with glaring needs, like saftey and CB. BTW, all off season the FO has said how big of a priority Goldson is. If he is that good, why then aren't we willing to bend with so much doe under the cap? I personally dont think he is worth it, but if our office really thinks he's legit, is there really a diffrence between 1million or so a year for the player you want/ desperately need? Same thing can be said for BAAS.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 1, 2011 at 13:46:24 ]

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Dude, this thread was created Pre Baalke. This thread started in March of 2010.

I'm aware. I'm assuming you resurrected this thread in an attempt to apply the OP's argument to Baalke. I'm simply saying I don't agree.

No sir, I resurrected this thread because every year there is an excuse as to why we aren't grabbing players in FA when we have obvious wholes. The last few years it was "we are signing our own guys." Our "own guys" have now left and we have replaced them with scrubs (Grant, Applewhite, Williams) if at all. This year we are more than 20million under the cap, so what's the new excuse? Oh yeah, "we dont want to over pay." With that said, I agree to an extent. But I also think we should be willing to over pay one or two FAs so we dont go into this season with glaring needs, like saftey and CB. BTW, all off season the FO has said how big of a priority Goldson is. If he is that good, why then aren't we willing to bend with so much doe under the cap? I personally dont think he is worth it, but if our office really thinks he's legit, is there really a diffrence between 1million or so a year for the player you want? Same thing can be said for BAAS.

Well, considering that camp has just opened and Free Agency is far from over, I'd say a lot of your negative feelings are unfounded. Fact is, you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

Now does our front office blow smoke sometimes? Of course they do. Same as any other in the league. No team is going to say "this guy sucks so we cut him." They will ALWAYS say "he's a great player blah blah blah" regardless of actual intent to keep him. So that explains the situation with Goldson. Regarding our approach to free agency, I don't see the problem. Contrary to popular belief, we were offering some serious cash to Asomugha. He took LESS money than what mostly everyone was offering (remember, he didn't just turn us down) to go play in Philly. Which is his right.

And while we were waiting on him, Houston stepped in and got Johnathan Joseph. That's just the way it goes. Everyone else the 'Zone was collectively crying over are (at best) second rate players that some of us want to see signed just so they can feel like Baalke is doing his job up to their (meaningless) standard (Plax? Please).

To summarize, Baalke is doing what he said he was going to do. That is, evaluate the current roster and possibly add a few FA's. Again, he is doing EXACTLY what he said he'd do.

And I'll await the result before passing judgement.

Have we re-signed anyone yet ?

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Dude, this thread was created Pre Baalke. This thread started in March of 2010.

I'm aware. I'm assuming you resurrected this thread in an attempt to apply the OP's argument to Baalke. I'm simply saying I don't agree.

No sir, I resurrected this thread because every year there is an excuse as to why we aren't grabbing players in FA when we have obvious wholes. The last few years it was "we are signing our own guys." Our "own guys" have now left and we have replaced them with scrubs (Grant, Applewhite, Williams) if at all. This year we are more than 20million under the cap, so what's the new excuse? Oh yeah, "we dont want to over pay." With that said, I agree to an extent. But I also think we should be willing to over pay one or two FAs so we dont go into this season with glaring needs, like saftey and CB. BTW, all off season the FO has said how big of a priority Goldson is. If he is that good, why then aren't we willing to bend with so much doe under the cap? I personally dont think he is worth it, but if our office really thinks he's legit, is there really a diffrence between 1million or so a year for the player you want? Same thing can be said for BAAS.

Well, considering that camp has just opened and Free Agency is far from over, I'd say a lot of your negative feelings are unfounded. Fact is, you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

Now does our front office blow smoke sometimes? Of course they do. Same as any other in the league. No team is going to say "this guy sucks so we cut him." They will ALWAYS say "he's a great player blah blah blah" regardless of actual intent to keep him. So that explains the situation with Goldson. Regarding our approach to free agency, I don't see the problem. Contrary to popular belief, we were offering some serious cash to Asomugha. He took LESS money than what mostly everyone was offering (remember, he didn't just turn us down) to go play in Philly. Which is his right.

And while we were waiting on him, Houston stepped in and got Johnathan Joseph. That's just the way it goes. Everyone else the 'Zone was collectively crying over are (at best) second rate players that some of us want to see signed just so they can feel like Baalke is doing his job up to their (meaningless) standard (Plax? Please).

To summarize, Baalke is doing what he said he was going to do. That is, evaluate the current roster and possibly add a few FA's. Again, he is doing EXACTLY what he said he'd do.

And I'll await the result before passing judgement.

If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

I think we can pretty much put the "do you want to over pay " argument to rest now. Its clear many of our FAs actually didn't really ask for that much, TKO, Lawson, Franklin...all where asking for reasonable doe based on what they signed for. Even Clements signed a more than fair deal with Cinnci. I am convinced our front office are a bunch of idiots and the Yorks are cheap b*****ds that just want a new stadium. I hope the league sues them and takes the team.

P.S. - You should know that this is not a normal FA period. Things are getting done with lighting speed around the NFL. The Niners are just s**t.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 2, 2011 at 14:16:05 ]

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Regardless of how you feel about the direction of the team, I talking specifically about whether or not we really can't sign any other big names because "we have to sign or guys."

I generally agree with your statement. We should have a pretty good core of guys since we've been drafting in the high first for number of years now.

The only thing I dont get is why not go after a proven Vet Running back? If/when Gore gets hurt I dont want to leave our play off run season in the hands of Coffee.

Also, how about a vet G or T for back up?

I don't recall hearing or seeing anywhere that we wouldn't sign any "big names" (which is a highly subjective term to begin with) because we wanted to resign our guys. Baalke said that we wouldn't go crazy in free agency and that was about it.

Seems like this is yet another line of thought someone on this site made up and everyone ran with it. As usual.

Dude, this thread was created Pre Baalke. This thread started in March of 2010.

I'm aware. I'm assuming you resurrected this thread in an attempt to apply the OP's argument to Baalke. I'm simply saying I don't agree.

No sir, I resurrected this thread because every year there is an excuse as to why we aren't grabbing players in FA when we have obvious wholes. The last few years it was "we are signing our own guys." Our "own guys" have now left and we have replaced them with scrubs (Grant, Applewhite, Williams) if at all. This year we are more than 20million under the cap, so what's the new excuse? Oh yeah, "we dont want to over pay." With that said, I agree to an extent. But I also think we should be willing to over pay one or two FAs so we dont go into this season with glaring needs, like saftey and CB. BTW, all off season the FO has said how big of a priority Goldson is. If he is that good, why then aren't we willing to bend with so much doe under the cap? I personally dont think he is worth it, but if our office really thinks he's legit, is there really a diffrence between 1million or so a year for the player you want? Same thing can be said for BAAS.

Well, considering that camp has just opened and Free Agency is far from over, I'd say a lot of your negative feelings are unfounded. Fact is, you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

Now does our front office blow smoke sometimes? Of course they do. Same as any other in the league. No team is going to say "this guy sucks so we cut him." They will ALWAYS say "he's a great player blah blah blah" regardless of actual intent to keep him. So that explains the situation with Goldson. Regarding our approach to free agency, I don't see the problem. Contrary to popular belief, we were offering some serious cash to Asomugha. He took LESS money than what mostly everyone was offering (remember, he didn't just turn us down) to go play in Philly. Which is his right.

And while we were waiting on him, Houston stepped in and got Johnathan Joseph. That's just the way it goes. Everyone else the 'Zone was collectively crying over are (at best) second rate players that some of us want to see signed just so they can feel like Baalke is doing his job up to their (meaningless) standard (Plax? Please).

To summarize, Baalke is doing what he said he was going to do. That is, evaluate the current roster and possibly add a few FA's. Again, he is doing EXACTLY what he said he'd do.

And I'll await the result before passing judgement.

If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

I think we can pretty much put the "do you want to over pay " argument to rest now. Its clear many of our FAs actually didn't really ask for that much, TKO, Lawson, Franklin...all where asking for reasonable doe based on what they signed for. Even Clements signed a more than fair deal with Cinnci. I am convinced our front office are a bunch of idiots and the Yorks are cheap b*****ds that just want a new stadium. I hope the league sues them and takes the team.

P.S. - You should know that this is not a normal FA period. Things are getting done with lighting speed around the NFL. The Niners are just s**t.

Amen brother!!

Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

[ Edited by candlestick49er on Aug 2, 2011 at 15:18:21 ]

I think ownership/management have proven that they are not fit/qualified to run an NFL franchise.

Nothing will change until the Yorks are forced to sell.