The "We have to sign our guys" smoke screen

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:
I don't mind that we aren't going out there and spending on the top free agents.

What bugs me is that we aren't even adding any freaking depth.

They don't care. They aren't even trying.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I am solidly in the camp of those who feel that McC's slogan that we must build through the draft is a lame excuse for not being more active in free agency.

The draft is a gamble, no doubt, but the better personnel guys are better at it than others. I am afraid that McC is average to below average.

We have signed FAs; a few have done well, but too many have not been worth the money spent. Holes open up on teams from time to time, holes that cannot always be filled right away in the draft. That is where smart FA sinings play a valuable role. Cap money is like cards in a card game. Would you want to play poker if you only played with three cards while your competitors played with five? Hard to win that way. Cap money ought to be kept at work (players on the roster). While it is good to have some money sitting on the sidelines, too much is a handicap. Unused money will not score TDs or make interceptions. And that is where McC and the Yorks fail us. Too often, I have seen players on other teams beat us who were signed as free agents for not too much money. And I asked, where was McC? Why did't he sign them instead?

I know he is below average. We have been terrible for 7 years in a row.

Whoa Memph, bro, McC only had control of TWO drafts. He got a solid grade for the last 2. So how is it his fault over the last 7? Are we doing the new math here or are we running base arithmetic?

He was nothing more than a glorified scout the prior 5 seasons. So I don't see how he can possibly be blamed for the entire 7 years.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:
I don't mind that we aren't going out there and spending on the top free agents.

What bugs me is that we aren't even adding any freaking depth.

They don't care. They aren't even trying.

C'mon now, we have too many guys to re-sign and regardless of the talent level of the FA available any competitive offer can easily be topped. We have to look at the fit of the FA players before offering any reasonable offer. With the signing of Carr we upgraded a spot. No huge impact signing unless Smith is injured or falls on his face outright.

I'll worry about this stuff after the draft and if we make it to Camp with no significant signings.

Otherwise it's a pointless waste of time to grouse over whether or not management cares.

~Ceadder

I disagree...and I expected we wouldn't do a lot in FA. Why? For starters, Singletary/Mac have 9 picks in the draft. I was hoping the 'Bolts wouldn't re-sign Sproles, but I'm not surprised they did after releasing LT. They've now signed Carr, who gives us a seasoned vet who can get the ball downfield. I'm hoping for either Bushrod or better yet, Gaither, both good young OT's who'd upgrade the OL. It would likely cost a 1st or 2nd round pick, but worth it, in my book. We'll most likely re-sign Sims and maybe another interior OL. If those deals get done, then they'd still have a mid-rd 1st rd pick, which they could get BPA or just go ahead and grab Iupati and the OL upgrade would be done. Most of the biggest FA deals done so far around the league are gross overpays...like $42M guaranteed for Peppers. Sorry, but that's outrageous...as is making Rolle the highest paid S in the league. There's something to the saying "less is more" and I think that's true in the Niner's case. They do have a core of good young players and their paydays will come...you can't do that if you're overspending on other FA's who may/may not work out. It's also referred to as a bird in the hand...whatever you want to call it, I think Niner management is proceding cautiously down the right path. They're building for now and the future...and not mortgaging either.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
The only place i'd like to add some veterans is the o-line.

Im actually higher on Glen Cofee then most. The dude was born in 1987 hes just a kid. If the niners say they like him then so do I. Imagin being born in 1987 going up against some of the grown azz men in the NFL? Cofee will be just fine.

I'm sure the Yorks would love to clone you a million times over....lol....sheepeople.

So because someone disagrees with your opinion, you call them sheep? I suppose you think you are the shepherd?

No. Read the comment in bold. He basically said he just agrees with whatever the org does just because they say so.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
I disagree...and I expected we wouldn't do a lot in FA. Why? For starters, Singletary/Mac have 9 picks in the draft. I was hoping the 'Bolts wouldn't re-sign Sproles, but I'm not surprised they did after releasing LT. They've now signed Carr, who gives us a seasoned vet who can get the ball downfield. I'm hoping for either Bushrod or better yet, Gaither, both good young OT's who'd upgrade the OL. It would likely cost a 1st or 2nd round pick, but worth it, in my book. We'll most likely re-sign Sims and maybe another interior OL. If those deals get done, then they'd still have a mid-rd 1st rd pick, which they could get BPA or just go ahead and grab Iupati and the OL upgrade would be done. Most of the biggest FA deals done so far around the league are gross overpays...like $42M guaranteed for Peppers. Sorry, but that's outrageous...as is making Rolle the highest paid S in the league. There's something to the saying "less is more" and I think that's true in the Niner's case. They do have a core of good young players and their paydays will come...you can't do that if you're overspending on other FA's who may/may not work out. It's also referred to as a bird in the hand...whatever you want to call it, I think Niner management is proceding cautiously down the right path. They're building for now and the future...and not mortgaging either.

Agree & nice post! I would be very happy if we trade for an OT.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm so tired of this BS argument. I would like to point out several things.

1. "Our guys" are really only Willis and V.Davis and maybe (I doubt) Franklin. Goldson, Manny and a couple others are second tier FA (They shouldn't break the bank).

2. "Our guys" are very high draft picks (6,11). So they probably already have a relatively large salary. So I'm assuming that when we sign them to a long term deal we are also subtracting the salaries they are currently earning. That makes sense to me.

3. If 2010 was a capped year we would of been 50 million under the cap. I think we've saved enough and have plenty of catching up to do.

4. Outside of Clements (and maybe J.Smith) most of our FA aquisitions have been on the cheap. It's not like our roster is exploding with talent, see point 3. So why are we so broke when teams like the Jets, Dolphins and a few others continue to add talent? Are they all stupid and headed for cap hell?

5. We dont even have a big name QB taking up cap space.

6. If signing Willis and Davis means we can't sign any other great/good free agents than I would just as well see them walk ( really am saying this tongue in cheek).


It was Scotty and Yorks that first fed us this line, dont you think we should at least examine it's merrit?

At the end of the day I get the feeling the Yorks are more interested in running this like a business than winning Super Bowls. Please dont use that statement to assume I mean they should be spending without regard.

Its all a bunch of BS, the Yorks just dont wonna spend the money.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm so tired of this BS argument. I would like to point out several things.

1. "Our guys" are really only Willis and V.Davis and maybe (I doubt) Franklin. Goldson, Manny and a couple others are second tier FA (They shouldn't break the bank).

2. "Our guys" are very high draft picks (6,11). So they probably already have a relatively large salary. So I'm assuming that when we sign them to a long term deal we are also subtracting the salaries they are currently earning. That makes sense to me.

3. If 2010 was a capped year we would of been 50 million under the cap. I think we've saved enough and have plenty of catching up to do.

4. Outside of Clements (and maybe J.Smith) most of our FA aquisitions have been on the cheap. It's not like our roster is exploding with talent, see point 3. So why are we so broke when teams like the Jets, Dolphins and a few others continue to add talent? Are they all stupid and headed for cap hell?

5. We dont even have a big name QB taking up cap space.

6. If signing Willis and Davis means we can't sign any other great/good free agents than I would just as well see them walk ( really am saying this tongue in cheek).


It was Scotty and Yorks that first fed us this line, dont you think we should at least examine it's merrit?

At the end of the day I get the feeling the Yorks are more interested in running this like a business than winning Super Bowls. Please dont use that statement to assume I mean they should be spending without regard.

Its all a bunch of BS, the Yorks just dont wonna spend the money.

What a freakin cop out. The team has had the allotted Cap monies in the bank EVERY season that the Yorks have owned the team. You've not ONCE not EVER heard even a rumor that they balked at putting the full amount in trust.

On top of this they've ALLOWED every GM use the funds. You've NEVER heard them balk at any big number signings. Not once.

So please stuff that lame opinion in the refuse bin where it belongs. I for one am sick and tired of it.

I mean c'mon sw, we ALL know the reason this team doesn't spend like a rich girl on Rodeo Drive. It hasn't been THAT long since this team had to climb out of salary cap hell. You REALLY want them to get back into it?

There are plenty of ex 9er managerial personnel that it's extremely tough to believe that the Yorks are as cheap as people claim they are. There would be SOMEBODY with an axe to grind. Yet no scathing cheapness reports have surfaced regarding Player personnel.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I am solidly in the camp of those who feel that McC's slogan that we must build through the draft is a lame excuse for not being more active in free agency.

The draft is a gamble, no doubt, but the better personnel guys are better at it than others. I am afraid that McC is average to below average.

We have signed FAs; a few have done well, but too many have not been worth the money spent. Holes open up on teams from time to time, holes that cannot always be filled right away in the draft. That is where smart FA sinings play a valuable role. Cap money is like cards in a card game. Would you want to play poker if you only played with three cards while your competitors played with five? Hard to win that way. Cap money ought to be kept at work (players on the roster). While it is good to have some money sitting on the sidelines, too much is a handicap. Unused money will not score TDs or make interceptions. And that is where McC and the Yorks fail us. Too often, I have seen players on other teams beat us who were signed as free agents for not too much money. And I asked, where was McC? Why did't he sign them instead?

I know he is below average. We have been terrible for 7 years in a row.

Whoa Memph, bro, McC only had control of TWO drafts. He got a solid grade for the last 2. So how is it his fault over the last 7? Are we doing the new math here or are we running base arithmetic?

He was nothing more than a glorified scout the prior 5 seasons. So I don't see how he can possibly be blamed for the entire 7 years.

~Ceadder

So you must consider kentawn balmer chilo rachal and cody wallace a successful draft.....that means this year youd be happy with tim tebow and toby gerhart in the first

Originally posted by RogerCraig:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm so tired of this BS argument. I would like to point out several things.

1. "Our guys" are really only Willis and V.Davis and maybe (I doubt) Franklin. Goldson, Manny and a couple others are second tier FA (They shouldn't break the bank).

2. "Our guys" are very high draft picks (6,11). So they probably already have a relatively large salary. So I'm assuming that when we sign them to a long term deal we are also subtracting the salaries they are currently earning. That makes sense to me.

3. If 2010 was a capped year we would of been 50 million under the cap. I think we've saved enough and have plenty of catching up to do.

4. Outside of Clements (and maybe J.Smith) most of our FA aquisitions have been on the cheap. It's not like our roster is exploding with talent, see point 3. So why are we so broke when teams like the Jets, Dolphins and a few others continue to add talent? Are they all stupid and headed for cap hell?

5. We dont even have a big name QB taking up cap space.

6. If signing Willis and Davis means we can't sign any other great/good free agents than I would just as well see them walk ( really am saying this tongue in cheek).


It was Scotty and Yorks that first fed us this line, dont you think we should at least examine it's merrit?

At the end of the day I get the feeling the Yorks are more interested in running this like a business than winning Super Bowls. Please dont use that statement to assume I mean they should be spending without regard.

I can't think of many players with the exception of Vernon, Justin Smith Crabs and Patrick who occupy slots that don't need upgrading.

Agreed

Who are we supposed to be going after? Names?

The other day I was listening to espn radio and they were talking about building for the future vs. building for now.

He was saying that people that have season tickets dont care about the quarterback who's on the bench and will play 3 years from now they want to know they're purchases are worth it...it was a good point.

I was thinking of the niner while he was speaking and I was like...we don't necessarily seem to really pursue being a great team...we seem to just depend on the draft and then we sign mediocre free agents like pashos and sims. Doesn't really make a ton of sense...I'm not a part of the front office, and I don't have season tickets, but what he was talking about seem to be right down our alley so....

I agree though, with some comments I thought we were like in the poor house or something...

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
I disagree...and I expected we wouldn't do a lot in FA. Why? For starters, Singletary/Mac have 9 picks in the draft. I was hoping the 'Bolts wouldn't re-sign Sproles, but I'm not surprised they did after releasing LT. They've now signed Carr, who gives us a seasoned vet who can get the ball downfield. I'm hoping for either Bushrod or better yet, Gaither, both good young OT's who'd upgrade the OL. It would likely cost a 1st or 2nd round pick, but worth it, in my book. We'll most likely re-sign Sims and maybe another interior OL. If those deals get done, then they'd still have a mid-rd 1st rd pick, which they could get BPA or just go ahead and grab Iupati and the OL upgrade would be done. Most of the biggest FA deals done so far around the league are gross overpays...like $42M guaranteed for Peppers. Sorry, but that's outrageous...as is making Rolle the highest paid S in the league. There's something to the saying "less is more" and I think that's true in the Niner's case. They do have a core of good young players and their paydays will come...you can't do that if you're overspending on other FA's who may/may not work out. It's also referred to as a bird in the hand...whatever you want to call it, I think Niner management is proceding cautiously down the right path. They're building for now and the future...and not mortgaging either.

Agree & nice post! I would be very happy if we trade for an OT.

I am also of this opinion.

We, or I at least, want to see Jed as a disciple of Eddie but has been as un-Eddie as possible to this point. Has he made a significant move since taking over the team aside from the "season won't end in december" speech?

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
We, or I at least, want to see Jed as a disciple of Eddie but has been as un-Eddie as possible to this point. Has he made a significant move since taking over the team aside from the "season won't end in december" speech?

You bought that speech?