The "We have to sign our guys" smoke screen

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 2, 2011 at 16:48:05 ]

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

[ Edited by SofaKing on Aug 2, 2011 at 17:04:54 ]

Originally posted by SofaKing:

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
To be honest I love what we are doing right now. Why should we over pay for players that wont make an impact for our team. see Brandon Jones.

We have to keep building threw the draft becoause our core is good enough to win now. This team is turning into a machine and im ready for domination for the next 5 years. GO NINERS.

Because bruilding ONLY through the draft is the way to the Subpar Bowl?? Have you seen the Niners drafting history?

Kentwan Balmer, Taylor Mays, Chilo Rachal, Alex Smith, David Baas, Dashon Goldson, Tarell Brown, MIchael Crabtree, Scott Mckillop, Ray McDonald, Rashaun Woods, Reggie McGrew, Kwayn Harris, Ken Dorsey, Tim Rattay, Cody Pickett, Gio Carmazzi, Navaro Bowman,

Chiampionship

One could argue that every other team in our division got better, talent wise. Aside from coaching, which was alot of our problem the last few years, we got worse.

But hey, I'm gonna let Harbaugh do his thing and not b***h until there's really something to b***h about.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

If that is the case then Harbaugh will have sealed his fate and be another 3 year coach then is out. Thank god that is not true and will be here after Trent is gone. The reason he is not PO'd he is with the program for now.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm far too bitter to argue at this point.

I can see that you're bitter lol. You seem to have a personal problem with Baalke more than anything else. I can understand if you're frustrated with our overall team performance (on and off the field), but you aren't even considering football matters anymore. You've already decided that you don't like Baalke, so it really doesn't matter what he does because you'll never see him in a positive light. If we win, its because of Harbaugh...if we fail, its because of Baalke. You basically have an issue with Baalke, regardless of our team's success or failures. Honestly, I don't care if you like him or not. At this point, I don't know if I like him or not because he's still unproven.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit.

So according to you...

If we win = Harbaugh is a great coach, Baalke sucks
If we lose = Baalke sucks

If that's how you see it, thats fine with me. I disagree with your opinion, but I respect it. Personally, I prefer to give credit where credit is due regardless if I like/dislike the person. But hey, to each is own.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
All he has done is let players go and not replace them

He did replace them:

Baas = Snyder/Wragge
Spikes = Bowman*
Lawson = Aldon Smith*
Franklin = Sopoaga
Clements = Spencer/Brown/Culliver*/Adams*
Goldson = Smith/Mays*

*Baalke draft pick

Obviously, Baalke did replace our free agents. 4 of those positions may be replaced by Baalke's draft picks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you draft players with the intention of developing future starters? Time will tell if they're good replacements or not, but you can't blame the front office for letting their draft picks play.

Also, if those draft picks happen to be good players don't you think Baalke should get credit for picking them? If that were to happen, I would give Baalke credit for the pick and Harbaugh credit for developing them. Our success/failure isn't determined by 1 person.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

You wouldn't be doing the same thing though. According to your previous post, you wouldn't be evaluating our current roster and how they project under our new coaching staff. I'm glad you aren't our GM.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person.

Thats a fair statement. I agree with you here.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

Me neither, but with playing time and good coaching we'll find out if they were truly good picks or not.



Lastly, I'd appreciate if you address my previous post as well. I made some points and all I got in return is "excuses" and "too bitter to argue". If you're gonna respond, then at least respond with something that actually relates to what we're discussing.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

Name two things he gets credit for?

To your point about replacing our lost FAs, everyone you mentioned was already under contract. Baalke could have been dead since last month and the result would have been the same.

Just because I wont give credit to Baalke if we win doesn't mean I'm filled with Baalke hate. I just think he hasn't done anything, so he doesn't get credit. Now, if his draft picks do very well, then i will give him credit. But as far as the FA portion of his job discription, he currently gets an F.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 2, 2011 at 17:55:43 ]

Originally posted by 9erred:
Have you seen the Niners drafting history?

Kentwan Balmer, Taylor Mays, Chilo Rachal, Alex Smith, David Baas, Dashon Goldson, Tarell Brown, MIchael Crabtree, Scott Mckillop, Ray McDonald, Rashaun Woods, Reggie McGrew, Kwayn Harris, Ken Dorsey, Tim Rattay, Cody Pickett, Gio Carmazzi, Navaro Bowman,

Chiampionship

1986 Draft: Charles Haley, John Taylor, Tom Rathman, Kevin f*gan, Don Griffin, Steve Wallace, Tim McKyer and Larry Roberts

Championship...literally

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

If that is the case then Harbaugh will have sealed his fate and be another 3 year coach then is out. Thank god that is not true and will be here after Trent is gone. The reason he is not PO'd he is with the program for now.

So you think Baalke makes decisions without any input from Harbaugh? Get real. Harbaugh is not some savior that descended from the heavens who will win in spite of Baalke. They are working together on this. There is not one move Baalke has made without the input of Harbaugh. They are in this together for the long-run. You can't judge them before any games have been played. At least wait until mid-season before you make such an outrageous claim.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

Name two things he gets credit for?

IF we make the playoffs the list is actually pretty long...

Harbaugh, extending VD & Willis, getting Gore back into camp without a media circus, not over paying vets who ended up getting much less attention than originally planned, sticking to his convictions even though fans and media alike are crucifying him before Free agency is even over or a regular season game has been played...

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

Name two things he gets credit for?

IF we make the playoffs the list is actually pretty long...

Harbaugh, extending VD & Willis, getting Gore back into camp without a media circus, [b]not over paying vets who ended up getting much less attention than originally planned, sticking to his convictions even though fans and media alike are crucifying him before Free agency is even over or a regular season game has been played...

[/b]

This post is full of speculation.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

Name two things he gets credit for?

IF we make the playoffs the list is actually pretty long...

Harbaugh, extending VD & Willis, getting Gore back into camp without a media circus, [b]not over paying vets who ended up getting much less attention than originally planned, sticking to his convictions even though fans and media alike are crucifying him before Free agency is even over or a regular season game has been played...

[/b]

This post is full of speculation.

Uh yeah... the quote you originally highlighted "If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke" was based on speculation, and you asked what he would then deserve credit for in the event this big "IF" happens. If you highlight a quote based on an "IF" any response given would then be based on speculation.

[ Edited by 5280High on Aug 2, 2011 at 18:21:30 ]

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Just because the players we let go were on our team the previous years doesn't necessarily mean they're "our guys". If they don't fit into the team's future plans than they aren't our guys. Maybe to our previous coaching staff they were, but obviously not under Harbaugh.

Also...

Originally posted by baltien:
you can't judge Baalke's/Harbaugh effectiveness because you haven't see the results of their decisions.

While its possible that our team gets worse with the loss of our previous starters, its also possible that our unproven players end up becoming solid (maybe even good) replacements. What if our young guys step up in their bigger roles? What if the guys we let go play poorly on their new teams? What if the free agents our fans wanted become busts? That's a lot of "what ifs", but the point is that nobody knows how this will work out in the future. If Baalke/Harbaugh's plan fails then they deserve to get criticized. But right now its still too early to determine if we're making the right/wrong moves.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If Baalke needs to "evaluate the current roster" he should be fired immediately. This dude was our head scout for a couple of years before taking over. Hes been with the team, he should know the talent. Just more BS from the front office.

Baalke knows our talent under Singletary's staff. Players respond differently to different coaches. Players who look good under Singletary's coaching style might not work with Harbaugh's, and players who look bad under Singletary's style might be good in Harbaugh's system. He isn't just evaluating talent itself, I'm sure he knows enough about a player's skillset. I think at this point he's projecting how the players will perform under Harbaugh and his staff.

And the excuses go on and on.

What excuses did I make? My post says 3 things:

1. Players who fit into Singletary's future plans may not fit into Harbaugh's future plans

2. Nobody knows for sure if we are making the right/wrong moves as of now (you might be right about everything but it can't be proven until we actually see it happen)

3. Baalke is evaluating our talent under a new coaching staff. If he isn't doing that, then he shouldn't be a GM. I can't believe you said he doesn't need to be evaluating the current roster. Do you honestly believe GMs should evaluate talent alone and not consider the team's system?

Once again, what excuses did I make?

I'm far too bitter to argue at this point. The bottom line is if Harbaugh can win with this team this year, it's not because we have a good front office, it's because he's that good. Trust me, if by some miracle of God we actually do ok or make the playoffs I will not be giving Baalke credit. Why should he? All he has done is let players go and not replace them. s**t, the Niners can pay me a quarter of his salary and I'll be happy to take over and do the same thing.

Honestly, I think the jury is still out if he's even a good personnel person. I'm not head over heels for any of our drafts the last few years.

I completely disagree. Harbaugh and Baalke have orchestrated this off-season in unison. If Harbaugh went to Baalke and said "I want Franklin back!" he would have done it. Harbaugh is fully on board with what Baalke is doing. It's what they BOTH have planned. If we make the playoffs Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit as does Baalke.

Name two things he gets credit for?

IF we make the playoffs the list is actually pretty long...

Harbaugh, extending VD & Willis, getting Gore back into camp without a media circus, not over paying vets who ended up getting much less attention than originally planned, sticking to his convictions even though fans and media alike are crucifying him before Free agency is even over or a regular season game has been played...

Hes being crucified because we seen this s**t before with the same losing results. Damn near 10 years of not overpaying and draft building & we still have the same problems on offense and defense. You know if they had a plan that didnt look like Ericksons, Nolans, and Sings the media and fans wouldnt be upset.