Vernon disses Dallas Clark

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

Again this proves that was Davis did was even more incredible. With 22 less catches, he was able to tie the NFL record for TD's by a TE.

He did that without Peyton Manning as QB. Without Reggie Wayne taking the double teams.

VD is a far better blocker than Clark, and as you pointed out VD only had two more drops than Dallas Clark... So much for the best argument anyone had that Clark was better...

Imagine what VD would have done in Clark's situation, and Clark in VD's. This isn't rocket science.

Also, people keep pointing out those 13TD's because it's an NFL Record! It IS a big deal! Scoring TD's is the biggest factor in winning football games. Without VD the 49ers would have been picking in the top 5. Dallas Clark could not hve did for this team, what Vernon Davis did.

Ah you people!

Let me explain my post to you. The guy posted that drop passes was the only reason why he thought Vernon should have been left off the 09 all-pro team. He then found out that Clark only had 2 less drops. So he was confused as to why Vernon was left off the 09 all-pro team. I was merely pointing out why Clark was indeed voted to the 09 all pro team over Vernon Davis. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. It doesn't matter who has who at WR. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NUMBERS WHEN IT COMES TO AN ALL PRO TEAM.

That is what the conversation was about. You people need to quit quoting me without reading. Or understanding what you're reading. In fact that's my knew signature.



Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

what do you mean you people

Quote:
There's always ATLEAST one of you quoting me and changing the argument.

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

my name is Nate Davis

It took me a minute but



Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

Again this proves that was Davis did was even more incredible. With 22 less catches, he was able to tie the NFL record for TD's by a TE.

He did that without Peyton Manning as QB. Without Reggie Wayne taking the double teams.

VD is a far better blocker than Clark, and as you pointed out VD only had two more drops than Dallas Clark... So much for the best argument anyone had that Clark was better...

Imagine what VD would have done in Clark's situation, and Clark in VD's. This isn't rocket science.

Also, people keep pointing out those 13TD's because it's an NFL Record! It IS a big deal! Scoring TD's is the biggest factor in winning football games. Without VD the 49ers would have been picking in the top 5. Dallas Clark could not hve did for this team, what Vernon Davis did.

Ah you people!

Let me explain my post to you. The guy posted that drop passes was the only reason why he thought Vernon should have been left off the 09 all-pro team. He then found out that Clark only had 2 less drops. So he was confused as to why Vernon was left off the 09 all-pro team. I was merely pointing out why Clark was indeed voted to the 09 all pro team over Vernon Davis. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. It doesn't matter who has who at WR. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NUMBERS WHEN IT COMES TO AN ALL PRO TEAM.

That is what the conversation was about. You people need to quit quoting me without reading. Or understanding what you're reading. In fact that's my knew signature.



Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

what do you mean you people

Quote:
There's always ATLEAST one of you quoting me and changing the argument.

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

Don't get your panties all in a knot fella.

I wasn't arguining with you. I was simply quoting what you said, and adding to the discussion.

People can quote someone and not be doing it to continue an argument.

If you didn't like what I said, I'm ok with that. However, if you post in a discussion, you may be quoted, and you'll just have to accept that.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

lol me weasel out of an argument. If I was a weasel we wouldn't even be having this discussion after the numbers he put up this year now would we?

This is the 1st post from you on this subject I don't mind responding to.

You say he hasn't reached his ceiling. This is my biggest problem. You act as if you was the architect and know how high that ceiling is. You can count on 1 hand how many plays he's made that others can't over his 4 year career. The same type of plays that makes you think he has a high ceiling. Until you realize that his combine numbers doesn't translate to the field. You're always going to be talking about that ceiling and not seeing him for what he is.

At the end you claim you would rather have "revolutionizing potential" over a consistent ceiling. When the guy you are admiring hasn't even had a consistent floor yet. But I'm the biased one!

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

Again this proves that was Davis did was even more incredible. With 22 less catches, he was able to tie the NFL record for TD's by a TE.

He did that without Peyton Manning as QB. Without Reggie Wayne taking the double teams.

VD is a far better blocker than Clark, and as you pointed out VD only had two more drops than Dallas Clark... So much for the best argument anyone had that Clark was better...

Imagine what VD would have done in Clark's situation, and Clark in VD's. This isn't rocket science.

Also, people keep pointing out those 13TD's because it's an NFL Record! It IS a big deal! Scoring TD's is the biggest factor in winning football games. Without VD the 49ers would have been picking in the top 5. Dallas Clark could not hve did for this team, what Vernon Davis did.

Ah you people!

Let me explain my post to you. The guy posted that drop passes was the only reason why he thought Vernon should have been left off the 09 all-pro team. He then found out that Clark only had 2 less drops. So he was confused as to why Vernon was left off the 09 all-pro team. I was merely pointing out why Clark was indeed voted to the 09 all pro team over Vernon Davis. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. It doesn't matter who has who at WR. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NUMBERS WHEN IT COMES TO AN ALL PRO TEAM.

That is what the conversation was about. You people need to quit quoting me without reading. Or understanding what you're reading. In fact that's my knew signature.



Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

what do you mean you people

Quote:
There's always ATLEAST one of you quoting me and changing the argument.

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

Don't get your panties all in a knot fella.

I wasn't arguining with you. I was simply quoting what you said, and adding to the discussion.

People can quote someone and not be doing it to continue an argument.

If you didn't like what I said, I'm ok with that. However, if you post in a discussion, you may be quoted, and you'll just have to accept that.

you added nothing to the discussion The comment was about the 09 ALL PRO TEAM!

Then you claimed if it wasn't for Vernon we'd be picking top 5. You obviously have no idea what his numbers were in our wins and in our losses.

31 catches, 341 yards 5 td's in he 8 wins.
47 catches, 624 yards, 8 td's in the 8 losses.

So please please tell me again how important he was to us!

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

lol me weasel out of an argument. If I was a weasel we wouldn't even be having this discussion after the numbers he put up this year now would we?

This is the 1st post from you on this subject I don't mind responding to.

You say he hasn't reached his ceiling. This is my biggest problem. You act as if you was the architect and know how high that ceiling is. You can count on 1 hand how many plays he's made that others can't over his 4 year career. The same type of plays that makes you think he has a high ceiling. Until you realize that his combine numbers doesn't translate to the field. You're always going to be talking about that ceiling and not seeing him for what he is.

At the end you claim you would rather have "revolutionizing potential" over a consistent ceiling. When the guy you are admiring hasn't even had a consistent floor yet. But I'm the biased one!

Nope, I am talking about slight improvements over what we HAVE seen. Nothing major, just slight improvements and putting it all together.

Once again you assume you know my stance and couldn't be more wrong, cause you lump me in with all the others, even after the endless pages of posts you and I have had back and forth at one another.

The reason I come out on top in most our arguments is because I actually listen to, and see, your point a view. I just disagree with it cause I think your opinion is not free of bias. You will have negative feelings towards Davis the rest of his NFL career for the lumps you have taken. You lump my point of view in with everyone else, which is why you are always wrong when you reply to one of my posts.

By the way. I have said the 2 major things holding Vernon back were his maturity and the lack of an OC that used him properly. Low and behold we have a coach who makes Vernon accountable and he takes leaps forward in regards to maturity, and soon as an OC used him right he produced the huge numbers I thought he could. So seems my arguments over the last few years have been spot on for the most part, while your opinion of Davis, as printed in any of the training camp scuffle threads where you bashed him mercilessly, has been dead wrong.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.......

Just to clear things up. I believe Vernon needs juuuust a little more polish on his receiving skills, juuuust a little more polish and re-dedication on his blocking skills. Improved effort and consistency with both, put it all together to be the best all around, blocking and receiving combination, TE there ever has been.

Never has there been a TE with the blocking potential, and receiving potential, like there is in Davis and he isn't even that far from realizing that potential. The thing that keeps me believing he will continue to improve is he has the required drive to do so.

I will readily admit, and have several times that Vernon Davis has not been what I envisioned when we drafted him, but imo the future that I see now is soooooo much more then my, and most others, expectations when he was drafted.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

lol me weasel out of an argument. If I was a weasel we wouldn't even be having this discussion after the numbers he put up this year now would we?

This is the 1st post from you on this subject I don't mind responding to.

You say he hasn't reached his ceiling. This is my biggest problem. You act as if you was the architect and know how high that ceiling is. You can count on 1 hand how many plays he's made that others can't over his 4 year career. The same type of plays that makes you think he has a high ceiling. Until you realize that his combine numbers doesn't translate to the field. You're always going to be talking about that ceiling and not seeing him for what he is.

At the end you claim you would rather have "revolutionizing potential" over a consistent ceiling. When the guy you are admiring hasn't even had a consistent floor yet. But I'm the biased one!

Nope, I am talking about slight improvements over what we HAVE seen. Nothing major, just slight improvements and putting it all together.

Once again you assume you know my stance and couldn't be more wrong, cause you lump me in with all the others, even after the endless pages of posts you and I have had back and forth at one another.

The reason I come out on top in most our arguments is because I actually listen to, and see, your point a view. I just disagree with it cause I think your opinion is not free of bias. You will have negative feelings towards Davis the rest of his NFL career for the lumps you have taken. You lump my point of view in with everyone else, which is why you are always wrong when you reply to one of my posts.

By the way. I have said the 2 major things holding Vernon back were his maturity and the lack of an OC that used him properly. Low and behold we have a coach who makes Vernon accountable and he takes leaps forward in regards to maturity, and soon as an OC used him right he produced the huge numbers I thought he could. So seems my arguments over the last few years have been spot on for the most part, while your opinion of Davis, as printed in any of the training camp scuffle threads where you bashed him mercilessly, has been dead wrong.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.......

you kill me!

Yea I did bash him. because I said he was a me 1st player. Which I said he would be before we drafted him. Which he was, was he not? since we're handing out check marks. check for me!

I said that the only thing that seperated Gates and Gonzo and Witten from the rest of the bunch was opportunity. As in the amount of passes they see. He got an increase in passes and what do you know. He's up there with Gates and Witten. Check for me.

I said we could get the same production from nearly any other TE. Football Outsiders being the only ones to make all things equal agrees. check for me.

hmmmmmmmmm indeed!




I also said we'd be lucky to see his speed be a factor in more than 2 plays a year. we have 5 in 4 years.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

lol me weasel out of an argument. If I was a weasel we wouldn't even be having this discussion after the numbers he put up this year now would we?

This is the 1st post from you on this subject I don't mind responding to.

You say he hasn't reached his ceiling. This is my biggest problem. You act as if you was the architect and know how high that ceiling is. You can count on 1 hand how many plays he's made that others can't over his 4 year career. The same type of plays that makes you think he has a high ceiling. Until you realize that his combine numbers doesn't translate to the field. You're always going to be talking about that ceiling and not seeing him for what he is.

At the end you claim you would rather have "revolutionizing potential" over a consistent ceiling. When the guy you are admiring hasn't even had a consistent floor yet. But I'm the biased one!

Just to clear things up. I believe Vernon needs juuuust a little more polish on his receiving skills, juuuust a little more polish and re-dedication on his blocking skills. Improved effort and consistency with both, put it all together to be the best all around, blocking and receiving combination, TE there ever has been.

Never has there been a TE with the blocking potential, and receiving potential, in a TE like there is in Davis and he isn't even that far from realizing that potential. The thing that keeps me believing he will continue to improve is he has the required drive to do so.

I will readily admit, and have several times that Vernon Davis has not been what I envisioned when we drafted him, but imo the future that I see now is soooooo much more then my, and most others, expectations when he was drafted.

Kudos for that

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

lol me weasel out of an argument. If I was a weasel we wouldn't even be having this discussion after the numbers he put up this year now would we?

This is the 1st post from you on this subject I don't mind responding to.

You say he hasn't reached his ceiling. This is my biggest problem. You act as if you was the architect and know how high that ceiling is. You can count on 1 hand how many plays he's made that others can't over his 4 year career. The same type of plays that makes you think he has a high ceiling. Until you realize that his combine numbers doesn't translate to the field. You're always going to be talking about that ceiling and not seeing him for what he is.

At the end you claim you would rather have "revolutionizing potential" over a consistent ceiling. When the guy you are admiring hasn't even had a consistent floor yet. But I'm the biased one!

Just to clear things up. I believe Vernon needs juuuust a little more polish on his receiving skills, juuuust a little more polish and re-dedication on his blocking skills. Improved effort and consistency with both, put it all together to be the best all around, blocking and receiving combination, TE there ever has been.

Never has there been a TE with the blocking potential, and receiving potential, in a TE like there is in Davis and he isn't even that far from realizing that potential. The thing that keeps me believing he will continue to improve is he has the required drive to do so.

I will readily admit, and have several times that Vernon Davis has not been what I envisioned when we drafted him, but imo the future that I see now is soooooo much more then my, and most others, expectations when he was drafted.

Kudos for that

That wasn't the 1st time I have posted that, but as I said above....

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

You don't think that cause you have HATED Vernon Davis, as a result of all the shiz you have taken for years on this board, and your bias doesn't allow you to have any other opinon.

I'll let it rest Kriz, it's a huge step even admitting that Davis approaches Clark's level as 2 years ago in your eye's Davis was evil incarnate and should have been kicked off the team for his preseason scuffles.

Whatever dude!

It's funny though that you put the bias label on me. When I can give credit when it's deserved. Yet he gets excuses when criticism is deserved. There is alot more bias for Vernon from the likes of you. Than there is me against Vernon. You guys are so deep in the well. You'll never be able to see him for what he is.

There are more and more Vernon fans here that tell the likes of you that Vernon isn't as good as you guys think. Yet you still can't see it!



oops forgot something!

Don't quote me if you can't read or follow a discussion!

Kz!

LOL ok Kriz, lump me in with the others, you enjoy using that tactic to weasle your way out of an argument, but I know exactly what Vernon Davis is, what he has been, and have a very good idea of where he's going.

Vernon is not the best receiving TE in the league. He does not have the hands a guy like Clark does. He has been a disappointment for the most part before last season under Martz.

The difference in Davis and any other elite TE is this. Clark, Gates, Witten, etc. have all hit their ceiling. You know what they are going to deliver and that's great. Vernon Davis hasn't even begun to approach his, and IF (and it's a decent size if considering his first few years) he continues to rise under Singletary, and IF he continues to have an improved attitude and effort to a be team guy instead of a me guy, he is going to be one of the best TE's EVER.

As I said. I would rather have Vernon Davis on this team into the foreseeable future than any other TE because he has revolutionizing potential....those other te's DON'T. For near the same production, I will take the revolutionizing potential over the consistent ceiling everyday.

lol me weasel out of an argument. If I was a weasel we wouldn't even be having this discussion after the numbers he put up this year now would we?

This is the 1st post from you on this subject I don't mind responding to.

You say he hasn't reached his ceiling. This is my biggest problem. You act as if you was the architect and know how high that ceiling is. You can count on 1 hand how many plays he's made that others can't over his 4 year career. The same type of plays that makes you think he has a high ceiling. Until you realize that his combine numbers doesn't translate to the field. You're always going to be talking about that ceiling and not seeing him for what he is.

At the end you claim you would rather have "revolutionizing potential" over a consistent ceiling. When the guy you are admiring hasn't even had a consistent floor yet. But I'm the biased one!

Just to clear things up. I believe Vernon needs juuuust a little more polish on his receiving skills, juuuust a little more polish and re-dedication on his blocking skills. Improved effort and consistency with both, put it all together to be the best all around, blocking and receiving combination, TE there ever has been.

Never has there been a TE with the blocking potential, and receiving potential, in a TE like there is in Davis and he isn't even that far from realizing that potential. The thing that keeps me believing he will continue to improve is he has the required drive to do so.

I will readily admit, and have several times that Vernon Davis has not been what I envisioned when we drafted him, but imo the future that I see now is soooooo much more then my, and most others, expectations when he was drafted.

Kudos for that

That wasn't the 1st time I have posted that, but as I said above....

It's a little easier to follow my posts regarding Vernon Davis. Than it is me following anyone elses. I stick out like a sore thumb in his threads. All the while arguing with ATLEAST 3 people. You only have to focus on one.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

I'm still not getting how gaining 141 yards on 22 more catches and 3 LESS touchdowns is "far better accross the board? Add to that Clark has only 2 less drops then Davis and that Davis is a WAY better blocker.......I agree with Davis.

Clark is a slot WR acting like a TE, which is fine.

Throw 32 GM's in a room, tell them to draft a team from scratch and see which TE gets picked first and I'll show you 32 cards that have V. Davis on them and 0 that say D. Clark.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

Umm you do realize who's throwing at him right? & what team Clark belongs to? It's the f**king Colts

There's always ATLEAST one of you quoting me and changing the argument.

I'm just replying to what you said "Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's"

I mean obviously Clark is going to have the better stats, we're the 49ers - the league leaders in 3 & outs

Colts - going to the SB next week with one of the all time greatest at QB, the guy is even making Garcon & Collie look like Pro Bowlers..jus sayin'

That sword cuts both ways. Clark had to share the ball with Wayne, Collie and Garcon, and STILL had more offensive production than Davis.

One last time;
Davis is one of the better TEs in the league, but he is not the best. I'm glad we have him as the starter instead of Bear Pascoe. Everybody happy?

Clark may have had to share a little more than Davis, but they are eating from a much bigger cake! Davis is on a team that had a QB with only one 300 yard passing game for the season. 300 yards for Manning is a sub par game. The Niners had 3,052 passing yards. The Colts had over 4,600.

Originally posted by domesik:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

I'm still not getting how gaining 141 yards on 22 more catches and 3 LESS touchdowns is "far better accross the board? Add to that Clark has only 2 less drops then Davis and that Davis is a WAY better blocker.......I agree with Davis.

Clark is a slot WR acting like a TE, which is fine.

Throw 32 GM's in a room, tell them to draft a team from scratch and see which TE gets picked first and I'll show you 32 cards that have V. Davis on them and 0 that say D. Clark.

if you take away the names from those stats and would have asked which one you wanted you wanted Vernon to get. It would have been hands down, 100 catches, 1106 yards and 10 td's. You know it and I know it.


Your last part again has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by domesik:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

I'm still not getting how gaining 141 yards on 22 more catches and 3 LESS touchdowns is "far better accross the board? Add to that Clark has only 2 less drops then Davis and that Davis is a WAY better blocker.......I agree with Davis.

Clark is a slot WR acting like a TE, which is fine.

Throw 32 GM's in a room, tell them to draft a team from scratch and see which TE gets picked first and I'll show you 32 cards that have V. Davis on them and 0 that say D. Clark.

if you take away the names from those stats and would have asked which one you wanted you wanted Vernon to get. It would have been hands down, 100 catches, 1106 yards and 10 td's. You know it and I know it.


Your last part again has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Then show me the blocking stats. Because all you are using are RECEIVING stats and TE's in the NFL block also. We all know Clark is a better WR then Davis, which your above stats show, but that is it, that is all.

The last has everything to do with everything. It takes out the QB (Manning vs. Smith) the team (Colts O vs. 49ers O) and all the other intangibles that are present in this argument. Again, a GM that doesn't have a QB yet or O coordinator yet and is picking up a TE to PLAY TE on his team (not slot WR) will look at Davis and Clark and pick Davis everytime.

But you'd probably pick Trent Dilfer over Dan Marino because the stats say he has more rings them him.

Originally posted by domesik:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by domesik:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Until Davis learns how to run routes other than verts, and read defenses well enough to be an effective "hot read" receiver, and cures his droppsies, and eliminates his false start penalties, he will not be the best all-around TE in the league.

Davis made his biggest improvement this past season in his career. He still has a ways to go before he can legitimately be called the best. Until then, he best let his play talk instead of his mouth.

This! I mean the main reason he didnt make it to the All Pro team was because of his drops. And thats what separates the goods from greats. No one cares about how many blocks DC has. They care about how many catches and TD's.

So while im definitely in my boys corner, he does have to prove a little more before he can really diss a proven player. Davis' Blocking skills are off the hook, but if thats all they wanted to see he might of made it from his rookie year till now.

And for any vets out there i'm just curious; HAS there ever been a TE thats made it to the All Pro team or Pro Bowl on the merit of just being the best blocking TE in the league. If there are, then Davis should of definitely be on the All Pro team, and can have a little validity in saying he's the best.

Let's be fair now. Dallas Clark had 9 drops himself. Only 2 behind Vernon.

WTF, did he? Damn i didnt even know that, but i mean to be real, thats the only reason i can think of him not being on the All PRO Team.

At one point tho, Davis did leave more than a few TD's on the board, and Clark (maybe has), but then if thats the case how come they talked more about Davis' drops.

Makes you wonder, Hmmmmmm


Thanks krizay, just when i thought it made sense, now you said Clark's drops are only 2 under Davis, so know im all f**ked up. lol

Well Clark did have 100 catches, 1106 yards & 10 TD's

All of that looks better than 78 catches, 965 yards & 13 td's

You guys only want to look at the 13 td's because it's Vernon Davis. But Clark's look far better across the board than Davis'

I'm still not getting how gaining 141 yards on 22 more catches and 3 LESS touchdowns is "far better accross the board? Add to that Clark has only 2 less drops then Davis and that Davis is a WAY better blocker.......I agree with Davis.

Clark is a slot WR acting like a TE, which is fine.

Throw 32 GM's in a room, tell them to draft a team from scratch and see which TE gets picked first and I'll show you 32 cards that have V. Davis on them and 0 that say D. Clark.

if you take away the names from those stats and would have asked which one you wanted you wanted Vernon to get. It would have been hands down, 100 catches, 1106 yards and 10 td's. You know it and I know it.


Your last part again has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Then show me the blocking stats. Because all you are using are RECEIVING stats and TE's in the NFL block also. We all know Clark is a better WR then Davis, which your above stats show, but that is it, that is all.

The last has everything to do with everything. It takes out the QB (Manning vs. Smith) the team (Colts O vs. 49ers O) and all the other intangibles that are present in this argument. Again, a GM that doesn't have a QB yet or O coordinator yet and is picking up a TE to PLAY TE on his team (not slot WR) will look at Davis and Clark and pick Davis everytime.

But you'd probably pick Trent Dilfer over Dan Marino because the stats say he has more rings them him.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR