Then WTF was Ceadder talking about when he said no better nor worse? If he was not talking about their abilities then what was his point? Was his statement completely irrelevant to the discussion? Because the entire thread is about the abilities Nate Davis showed in the pre-season. If Ceadder was talking about abilities, then everything I said makes perfect sense. If he was talking about something else, then his post is irrelevant. Period
You may have to ask Ceadder exactly what he was talking about; however, I read it as Ability to play QB for us.
Now, IMO, Alex has more experience and a better understanding of the playbook; but, Nate looks like more of a pure (under center) QB. If these balance out (Alex's knowledge and experience and Nate's ability), then there ability to QB this team would be no better or no worse. In a case such as that, you would start the guy with the experience until the guy with the talent gains more knowledge.
Then WTF was Ceadder talking about when he said no better nor worse? If he was not talking about their abilities then what was his point? Was his statement completely irrelevant to the discussion? Because the entire thread is about the abilities Nate Davis showed in the pre-season. If Ceadder was talking about abilities, then everything I said makes perfect sense. If he was talking about something else, then his post is irrelevant. Period
You may have to ask Ceadder exactly what he was talking about; however, I read it as Ability to play QB for us.
Now, IMO, Alex has more experience and a better understanding of the playbook; but, Nate looks like more of a pure (under center) QB. If these balance out (Alex's knowledge and experience and Nate's ability), then there ability to QB this team would be no better or no worse. In a case such as that, you would start the guy with the experience until the guy with the talent gains more knowledge.
OK, I agree with the interpretation (though maybe I should have said "effectively equal"), but disagree with the conclusion. If the young guy with less experience can QB the team no worse than the guy with experience, I'm giving the reigns to the young guy, since it would seem to me he could only get better with the experience.
[ Edited by mrgneissguy on Jan 8, 2010 at 11:51:28 ]
Originally posted by Joecool: Just watched it again and take a look at the first pass into the endzone to Delanie. There really isn't any pressure but Nate still shift over INTO the passing lane for an easy throw. He didn't stand there and try to throw it over the DL as we have seen be some QB's, he moved when he didn't need to and made a tight throw into an easy one.
Yeah I liked that. It shows that he has the ability to take pressure off himself. Which is why I think he should at the very least get a shot at QB2. He's the only QB on our roster that shows that. But without seeing him do it against first team Defenses I'm not going to start in on saying that he should be QB1. I need something more than Preseason footage against 3rd and 4th teamers to go on.
~Ceadder
The Cowboy game.... He started against the Cowboys First team Defense for 3 Qtr's and then Duane Haurd came in.
Don't you mean Damon Huard? But okay let's go with that. 10 attempts for 15 completions with 0 TDs' in 3 quarters of play suggests what?
It suggests that it was a conservatively run game against a stout Defenisive unit. It also proves that he is a solid manager. But that's a whoppig total of 15 plays of Preseason ball doing alot of handing off.
I'm not heartless. What do you want a promotion to QB1 on that? C'mon man you should know better than that.
~Ceadder
good argument.........
Yes actually, it is a good argument.
You only see the 10 for 15 of it and that sounds so damn good. But then you add the rest and it's Meh.
~Ceadder
You conveniently left out the rest of his stats from that game.
10-15 66.7% 132 yds 8.8 avg 94.3 rating. So thats meh but you guys praise smith for having the same line through 3 quarters
Originally posted by wailers15: wow weak video, nothing to get all wet about ladies! seriously he never played againts top notch talent. (then again that theory seldomly holds up), but when it came to the big games he threw up big poopers. the dude has a learning disabillity, i just don't see him making all of his checkdown correctly. He's a classic backup.
He has dyslexia, which I think would not prevent him from being a good football player. As far as big games go, at least in the NFL he has not played in anything but practice games. All we can do is look at some of the basic mechanics of what he did out there & speculate. It is equally uninformed at this time to say he would be a great starter as it is to say he would never be more than a backup.
Originally posted by Joecool: Just watched it again and take a look at the first pass into the endzone to Delanie. There really isn't any pressure but Nate still shift over INTO the passing lane for an easy throw. He didn't stand there and try to throw it over the DL as we have seen be some QB's, he moved when he didn't need to and made a tight throw into an easy one.
Yeah I liked that. It shows that he has the ability to take pressure off himself. Which is why I think he should at the very least get a shot at QB2. He's the only QB on our roster that shows that. But without seeing him do it against first team Defenses I'm not going to start in on saying that he should be QB1. I need something more than Preseason footage against 3rd and 4th teamers to go on.
~Ceadder
The Cowboy game.... He started against the Cowboys First team Defense for 3 Qtr's and then Duane Haurd came in.
Don't you mean Damon Huard? But okay let's go with that. 10 attempts for 15 completions with 0 TDs' in 3 quarters of play suggests what?
It suggests that it was a conservatively run game against a stout Defenisive unit. It also proves that he is a solid manager. But that's a whoppig total of 15 plays of Preseason ball doing alot of handing off.
I'm not heartless. What do you want a promotion to QB1 on that? C'mon man you should know better than that.
~Ceadder
good argument.........
Yes actually, it is a good argument.
You only see the 10 for 15 of it and that sounds so damn good. But then you add the rest and it's Meh.
~Ceadder
You conveniently left out the rest of his stats from that game.
10-15 66.7% 132 yds 8.8 avg 94.3 rating. So thats meh but you guys praise smith for having the same line through 3 quarters
Guys, Nate Davis did not play 3 quarters of football in that game or even play against the starters. He played the last 20 minutes (he took over with 5:44 left in the 3rd quarter)...
It was the final pre-season game against the Chargers that he played 3+ quarters.
Shaun took the opening drive, then Nate finished off the game. Nate was 13 for 23 (59.2%) for 115 yards with 1 TD and 1 int.
On the positive side Nate got us our only TD of the day. On the bad side, he put up Alex Smith type numbers against a team that was sitting most of their starters....
Originally posted by Joecool: Just watched it again and take a look at the first pass into the endzone to Delanie. There really isn't any pressure but Nate still shift over INTO the passing lane for an easy throw. He didn't stand there and try to throw it over the DL as we have seen be some QB's, he moved when he didn't need to and made a tight throw into an easy one.
Yeah I liked that. It shows that he has the ability to take pressure off himself. Which is why I think he should at the very least get a shot at QB2. He's the only QB on our roster that shows that. But without seeing him do it against first team Defenses I'm not going to start in on saying that he should be QB1. I need something more than Preseason footage against 3rd and 4th teamers to go on.
~Ceadder
The Cowboy game.... He started against the Cowboys First team Defense for 3 Qtr's and then Duane Haurd came in.
Don't you mean Damon Huard? But okay let's go with that. 10 attempts for 15 completions with 0 TDs' in 3 quarters of play suggests what?
It suggests that it was a conservatively run game against a stout Defenisive unit. It also proves that he is a solid manager. But that's a whoppig total of 15 plays of Preseason ball doing alot of handing off.
I'm not heartless. What do you want a promotion to QB1 on that? C'mon man you should know better than that.
~Ceadder
good argument.........
Yes actually, it is a good argument.
You only see the 10 for 15 of it and that sounds so damn good. But then you add the rest and it's Meh.
~Ceadder
I think he was referring to the 15 completions in only 10 attempts...
LB
I think 150% completion rate is damn good...seriously though, I have seen over and over again that one of the reasons he shouldn't ever play in the numerous forums out there is that he his learning disability means he can't know the playbook yet, and have even seen repeated, though I don't know that there is any legit source, that he only knows like 6 plays. Now personally, if I see a guy go out there and play 3 quarters of football and complete 67% of his passes, with only knowing 6 plays...I'm damned impressed.
I have seen that too. The problem I have is that I can't believe anyone would ever draft a player that would take a full year to learn only 6 plays (I'm not saying that you said that by the way). There is no way I believe he's only absorbed so little in this given time frame. My point is, he never would have been drafted if his learning disability was that substantial. Plus, why would the Niners have him playing WR in practice if they thought it would take him so long to learn the QB position? Seems to me they'd want him spending all his time at QB. Makes no sense to ma at all.
I'm excited to see his upside.
LB
Actually, playing WR helps him understand routes no different than how a former QB switches to WR in that he understands better what the QB needs from him.
Originally posted by Joecool: Just watched it again and take a look at the first pass into the endzone to Delanie. There really isn't any pressure but Nate still shift over INTO the passing lane for an easy throw. He didn't stand there and try to throw it over the DL as we have seen be some QB's, he moved when he didn't need to and made a tight throw into an easy one.
Yeah I liked that. It shows that he has the ability to take pressure off himself. Which is why I think he should at the very least get a shot at QB2. He's the only QB on our roster that shows that. But without seeing him do it against first team Defenses I'm not going to start in on saying that he should be QB1. I need something more than Preseason footage against 3rd and 4th teamers to go on.
~Ceadder
The Cowboy game.... He started against the Cowboys First team Defense for 3 Qtr's and then Duane Haurd came in.
Don't you mean Damon Huard? But okay let's go with that. 10 attempts for 15 completions with 0 TDs' in 3 quarters of play suggests what?
It suggests that it was a conservatively run game against a stout Defenisive unit. It also proves that he is a solid manager. But that's a whoppig total of 15 plays of Preseason ball doing alot of handing off.
I'm not heartless. What do you want a promotion to QB1 on that? C'mon man you should know better than that.
~Ceadder
good argument.........
Yes actually, it is a good argument.
You only see the 10 for 15 of it and that sounds so damn good. But then you add the rest and it's Meh.
~Ceadder
You conveniently left out the rest of his stats from that game.
10-15 66.7% 132 yds 8.8 avg 94.3 rating. So thats meh but you guys praise smith for having the same line through 3 quarters
Guys, Nate Davis did not play 3 quarters of football in that game or even play against the starters. He played the last 20 minutes (he took over with 5:44 left in the 3rd quarter)...
It was the final pre-season game against the Chargers that he played 3+ quarters.
Shaun took the opening drive, then Nate finished off the game. Nate was 13 for 23 (59.2%) for 115 yards with 1 TD and 1 int.
On the positive side Nate got us our only TD of the day. On the bad side, he put up Alex Smith type numbers against a team that was sitting most of their starters....
Ya but that pick should have been a TD but the FB couldn't hang on and tipped it in the air. But I don't like stats anyway, they don't tell the whole story. What I liked was the touch on the TD to Hill. How Davis moved around in the pocket to buy time, he didn't just run to the right. He hit receivers in stride, and has a rocket arm. That's what I saw.
Originally posted by Joecool: Just watched it again and take a look at the first pass into the endzone to Delanie. There really isn't any pressure but Nate still shift over INTO the passing lane for an easy throw. He didn't stand there and try to throw it over the DL as we have seen be some QB's, he moved when he didn't need to and made a tight throw into an easy one.
Yeah I liked that. It shows that he has the ability to take pressure off himself. Which is why I think he should at the very least get a shot at QB2. He's the only QB on our roster that shows that. But without seeing him do it against first team Defenses I'm not going to start in on saying that he should be QB1. I need something more than Preseason footage against 3rd and 4th teamers to go on.
~Ceadder
The Cowboy game.... He started against the Cowboys First team Defense for 3 Qtr's and then Duane Haurd came in.
Don't you mean Damon Huard? But okay let's go with that. 10 attempts for 15 completions with 0 TDs' in 3 quarters of play suggests what?
It suggests that it was a conservatively run game against a stout Defenisive unit. It also proves that he is a solid manager. But that's a whoppig total of 15 plays of Preseason ball doing alot of handing off.
I'm not heartless. What do you want a promotion to QB1 on that? C'mon man you should know better than that.
~Ceadder
good argument.........
Yes actually, it is a good argument.
You only see the 10 for 15 of it and that sounds so damn good. But then you add the rest and it's Meh.
~Ceadder
You conveniently left out the rest of his stats from that game.
10-15 66.7% 132 yds 8.8 avg 94.3 rating. So thats meh but you guys praise smith for having the same line through 3 quarters
Guys, Nate Davis did not play 3 quarters of football in that game or even play against the starters. He played the last 20 minutes (he took over with 5:44 left in the 3rd quarter)...
It was the final pre-season game against the Chargers that he played 3+ quarters.
Shaun took the opening drive, then Nate finished off the game. Nate was 13 for 23 (59.2%) for 115 yards with 1 TD and 1 int.
On the positive side Nate got us our only TD of the day. On the bad side, he put up Alex Smith type numbers against a team that was sitting most of their starters....
Ya but that pick should have been a TD but the FB couldn't hang on and tipped it in the air. But I don't like stats anyway, they don't tell the whole story. What I liked was the touch on the TD to Hill. How Davis moved around in the pocket to buy time, he didn't just run to the right. He hit receivers in stride, and has a rocket arm. That's what I saw.
Yeah, I'm not bashing the guy. I'm just posting facts.
I do agree that he looks to have better touch and a better understanding of space and timing (hitting receivers in stride). Let's hope he can get the playbook down.
Davis played against back ups, we will have to see how he fares against higher caliber players. You can't bank on the highlights.
However, when you watch during the preseason (not the highlight videos) you can look in his eyes and his face-he is not only attentive when listening to the coach, but has a sure confidence calm. You can see his focus. At least thus far
Alex-has the look at times of someone with uncertainty. For all of you who claim to watch tapes and analyze, look at the his face when he does good and when he does bad when coming to the line of scrimmage and the tv gets in close enough.
Idiots who think quick release and having zip on the ball is the same thing don't know football or athletics for that matter. You can have zip on the ball but be slow to get it out of your hands and thats why people can react to the ball by either batting it down (DL) or pouncing on the ball (DB). For those slow to catch on, it is like telegraphing your intention. In boxing for example some people will cock the hand back to gain more power but the opponent can see it coming and either brace for the punch or evade it. However. if you can throw a punch straight from where it is, the opponent is unprepared, you catch him napping. Samething with throwing the ball. It is the time you first move to throw the ball to the time it takes for the time it takes to get the ball out of your hand. Plus what does zip matter-Our (niners)greatest QBs never had great zip, decent to good zip, but they were catchable balls, which is more important!
John Elway and Brett Farve have great velocity or zip, but they learned that they had to dial it down a notch or two cause the receivers couldn't catch it, not with everything else also going on around them.
Although Davis may not get the reps this year, he'll get more later, he is throwing the ball though, but as the scout team QB. Playing a little wide receiver can't hurt, he'll understand what the receivers perspective is and what the receiver sees and be better for it in the long term. I would like to see him play more next season in spot situations though, under certain circumstances just as they did with Montana and then Young. Spot appearances.
Originally posted by AKfanster: I don't see what was so great about that video........... Davis had a couple nice throws, but nothing that stood out and made me say "here's the next great 49er QB".
Maybe he'll develop into a good QB and maybe he won't, but he obviously needs alot of work.
agreed. I still think we should trade for McNabb, if available, in the offseason but that is another topic.......
So you guys didn't see:
1. How accurate he is
2. That he has a cannon for an arm
3. He can put a nice touch on the ball when needed
4. Avoids sacks and makes plays out of nothing (he had no blocking most of the time)
5. Made some very good reads
This doesn't mean that he will be a great QB, but it does show that he has a ton of potential. If he is developed right he "could" be our answer at QB.
I am rooting for the kid.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for the kid also. That being said, I just don't understand all the fan fare he's getting. Yes, he has a rocket arm. His accuracy is OK, did you see the pick? And yes, he did scramble around a bit to avoid sacks. Overall he looked pretty good against scrubs. Too many throws off his back foot.
I'd really like to see this guy pan out. But unlike some people on the board, I realize that he needs time to mature, work on mechanice, learn playbook, etc.
I just got through watching Marvin's wonderful Crabtree highlight clip. Looking at it as if it was Alex's highlight clip, I'd take Alex's highlights over Nate Davis' any day. And Alex's didn't even include his 10 TDs with VD. Boy, that would be one amazing clip!
Who knows what will become of Nate Davis with the 49ers, but it doesn't take an idiot not to notice that Nate has amazing mechanics in/outside of the pocket in ball delivery/poise/check-down decisions.
When Nate takes direct snaps he does that backwards "BOUNCE" Steve Young was talking about a couple of days ago that confident QBs make (Something I haven't seen in a 49ers QB since Garcia). -After that bounce Nate positions his body posture straight, viewing the downfield options, and releases the ball rather quickly (sometimes stepping into the pocket). -Heck, John Madden even brought this up in an interview after the Dallas game.
I hope Nate at least earns a #2 spot next season, cause Shaun Hill is practically worthless to our system (those back injuries from that Tampa game are starting to catch up with him).
Originally posted by excelsior: Snake, you and I must be looking at different clips. I saw an awful lot of hurried, reckless throws. That did not resemble poise to me.
This.
The kid might be able to play, but that highlight video is proof that he is not yet ready for prime time. He looks like a chicken running around with his head cut off, a real NFL defense will eat him alive.
good argument.........
