Jason Hill vs. Josh Morgan.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Hill & Morgan both lack speed. Hill just does a better job catching the ball with his hands while Morgan almost always traps ball with his chest. That means Hill would get a better % of the 50/50 balls thrown his way, so I'd put Hill in at this point. If he can't produce more than Morgan, than at least you know who to cut next year.

But the major difference between Morgan & Hill is that one has simply had more opportunity to demonstrate his mediocrity. Neither look like the answer at this point.

Hill runs a 4.32...

Wow! Astute observation there, Al Davis.

You can base your estimation of his speed on his forty time. Or you could do something revolutionary like - oh I don't know - watch the game.

Hill is not now, and has never been, a burner. He's quicker in & out of his cuts than Morgan, but the straight line speed simply isn't there. That much is obvious on the field.

I think we can all agree Hill does not reflect his 4.32 speed on the field, but is faster than Morgan, which isn't saying much, since he (Morgan) seems painfully slow at times. It's ironic that our faster receivers, Jones (who probably IS the fastest receiver) and Hill spend more time on the bench than the over-rated and underachieving Morgan. And both have gotten good marks on prior performances. Sing seems to be penalizing Jones for being injured, else how can you explain that the most impressive receiver in camp can't buy any playing time?
It's equally ironic that both our tight ends are faster than any of our receivers.
I'd like to see both Hill and Jones get more reps now that the playoffs are highly unlikely.

We don't know if he's faster than Morgan. Morgan has gotten behind DBs where Hill has not. Who knows, maybe his 4.32 became a 4.6 after you throw on the 10 pounds of pads.

By that same logic Morgans 4.6 becomes a 5.0 with pads...

Hill has gotten behind DB's plenty of times when he has gotten opportunities last year and this year.

[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Dec 11, 2009 at 15:22:38 ]

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Hill & Morgan both lack speed. Hill just does a better job catching the ball with his hands while Morgan almost always traps ball with his chest. That means Hill would get a better % of the 50/50 balls thrown his way, so I'd put Hill in at this point. If he can't produce more than Morgan, than at least you know who to cut next year.

But the major difference between Morgan & Hill is that one has simply had more opportunity to demonstrate his mediocrity. Neither look like the answer at this point.

Hill runs a 4.32...

Wow! Astute observation there, Al Davis.

You can base your estimation of his speed on his forty time. Or you could do something revolutionary like - oh I don't know - watch the game.

Hill is not now, and has never been, a burner. He's quicker in & out of his cuts than Morgan, but the straight line speed simply isn't there. That much is obvious on the field.

I think we can all agree Hill does not reflect his 4.32 speed on the field, but is faster than Morgan, which isn't saying much, since he (Morgan) seems painfully slow at times. It's ironic that our faster receivers, Jones (who probably IS the fastest receiver) and Hill spend more time on the bench than the over-rated and underachieving Morgan. And both have gotten good marks on prior performances. Sing seems to be penalizing Jones for being injured, else how can you explain that the most impressive receiver in camp can't buy any playing time?
It's equally ironic that both our tight ends are faster than any of our receivers.
I'd like to see both Hill and Jones get more reps now that the playoffs are highly unlikely.

We don't know if he's faster than Morgan. Morgan has gotten behind DBs where Hill has not. Who knows, maybe his 4.32 became a 4.6 after you throw on the 10 pounds of pads.

By that same logic Morgans 4.6 becomes a 5.0 with pads...

Hill has gotten behind DB's plenty of times when he has gotten opportunities last year and this year.

Not really, some players legs hold the weight of the pads much better. It makes a difference. Some players don't lose as much speed from no pads to pads.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Hill & Morgan both lack speed. Hill just does a better job catching the ball with his hands while Morgan almost always traps ball with his chest. That means Hill would get a better % of the 50/50 balls thrown his way, so I'd put Hill in at this point. If he can't produce more than Morgan, than at least you know who to cut next year.

But the major difference between Morgan & Hill is that one has simply had more opportunity to demonstrate his mediocrity. Neither look like the answer at this point.

Hill runs a 4.32...

Wow! Astute observation there, Al Davis.

You can base your estimation of his speed on his forty time. Or you could do something revolutionary like - oh I don't know - watch the game.

Hill is not now, and has never been, a burner. He's quicker in & out of his cuts than Morgan, but the straight line speed simply isn't there. That much is obvious on the field.

I think we can all agree Hill does not reflect his 4.32 speed on the field, but is faster than Morgan, which isn't saying much, since he (Morgan) seems painfully slow at times. It's ironic that our faster receivers, Jones (who probably IS the fastest receiver) and Hill spend more time on the bench than the over-rated and underachieving Morgan. And both have gotten good marks on prior performances. Sing seems to be penalizing Jones for being injured, else how can you explain that the most impressive receiver in camp can't buy any playing time?
It's equally ironic that both our tight ends are faster than any of our receivers.
I'd like to see both Hill and Jones get more reps now that the playoffs are highly unlikely.

We don't know if he's faster than Morgan. Morgan has gotten behind DBs where Hill has not. Who knows, maybe his 4.32 became a 4.6 after you throw on the 10 pounds of pads.

By that same logic Morgans 4.6 becomes a 5.0 with pads...

Hill has gotten behind DB's plenty of times when he has gotten opportunities last year and this year.

Not really, some players legs hold the weight of the pads much better. It makes a difference. Some players don't lose as much speed from no pads to pads.

I feel dumber for reading this post.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Hill & Morgan both lack speed. Hill just does a better job catching the ball with his hands while Morgan almost always traps ball with his chest. That means Hill would get a better % of the 50/50 balls thrown his way, so I'd put Hill in at this point. If he can't produce more than Morgan, than at least you know who to cut next year.

But the major difference between Morgan & Hill is that one has simply had more opportunity to demonstrate his mediocrity. Neither look like the answer at this point.

Hill runs a 4.32...

Wow! Astute observation there, Al Davis.

You can base your estimation of his speed on his forty time. Or you could do something revolutionary like - oh I don't know - watch the game.

Hill is not now, and has never been, a burner. He's quicker in & out of his cuts than Morgan, but the straight line speed simply isn't there. That much is obvious on the field.

I think we can all agree Hill does not reflect his 4.32 speed on the field, but is faster than Morgan, which isn't saying much, since he (Morgan) seems painfully slow at times. It's ironic that our faster receivers, Jones (who probably IS the fastest receiver) and Hill spend more time on the bench than the over-rated and underachieving Morgan. And both have gotten good marks on prior performances. Sing seems to be penalizing Jones for being injured, else how can you explain that the most impressive receiver in camp can't buy any playing time?
It's equally ironic that both our tight ends are faster than any of our receivers.
I'd like to see both Hill and Jones get more reps now that the playoffs are highly unlikely.

We don't know if he's faster than Morgan. Morgan has gotten behind DBs where Hill has not. Who knows, maybe his 4.32 became a 4.6 after you throw on the 10 pounds of pads.

By that same logic Morgans 4.6 becomes a 5.0 with pads...

Hill has gotten behind DB's plenty of times when he has gotten opportunities last year and this year.

Not really, some players legs hold the weight of the pads much better. It makes a difference. Some players don't lose as much speed from no pads to pads.

I feel dumber for reading this post.

I would suggest not reading any posts anymore. You may go to the point of no return...oh wait.

I have to say Josh Morgan because Crabtree is on the field. I really feel like Jason Hill is most effective in Crabtree's role. I think Josh Morgan can be more of a deep threat and Crabtree can work the intermediate passes. I would chose Jason Hill over Brandon Jones as the 3rd receiver but the 2nd TE is getting most of the receptions in that position. I think Jason Hill may have the best hands on the team, and one of the better route runners ( Its often hard to tell if its Bruce of Hill). I'd like to see them take advantage of Jason Hill on more underneath passes.

Originally posted by GEEK:
When has this coaching staff ever been good at utilizing wide receivers unless they get hit with a sure fire 1st round pick?

Antonio Bryant, Arnaz Battle, Darrell Jackson, Brandon Lloyd, Josh Morgan, Jason Hill, Brandon Jones, Michael Spurlock, Brian Gilmore, Bryant Johnson, Dominique Zeigler, Ashley Lelie, Taylor Jacobs...

Outside of our offensive line woes, McCloughan is absolutely the worst at evaluating, acquiring, and utilizing WRs in our offensive system.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Hill & Morgan both lack speed. Hill just does a better job catching the ball with his hands while Morgan almost always traps ball with his chest. That means Hill would get a better % of the 50/50 balls thrown his way, so I'd put Hill in at this point. If he can't produce more than Morgan, than at least you know who to cut next year.

But the major difference between Morgan & Hill is that one has simply had more opportunity to demonstrate his mediocrity. Neither look like the answer at this point.

Hill runs a 4.32...

Wow! Astute observation there, Al Davis.

You can base your estimation of his speed on his forty time. Or you could do something revolutionary like - oh I don't know - watch the game.

Hill is not now, and has never been, a burner. He's quicker in & out of his cuts than Morgan, but the straight line speed simply isn't there. That much is obvious on the field.

I think we can all agree Hill does not reflect his 4.32 speed on the field, but is faster than Morgan, which isn't saying much, since he (Morgan) seems painfully slow at times. It's ironic that our faster receivers, Jones (who probably IS the fastest receiver) and Hill spend more time on the bench than the over-rated and underachieving Morgan. And both have gotten good marks on prior performances. Sing seems to be penalizing Jones for being injured, else how can you explain that the most impressive receiver in camp can't buy any playing time?
It's equally ironic that both our tight ends are faster than any of our receivers.
I'd like to see both Hill and Jones get more reps now that the playoffs are highly unlikely.

We don't know if he's faster than Morgan. Morgan has gotten behind DBs where Hill has not. Who knows, maybe his 4.32 became a 4.6 after you throw on the 10 pounds of pads.

By that same logic Morgans 4.6 becomes a 5.0 with pads...

Hill has gotten behind DB's plenty of times when he has gotten opportunities last year and this year.

Not really, some players legs hold the weight of the pads much better. It makes a difference. Some players don't lose as much speed from no pads to pads.

I feel dumber for reading this post.

I would suggest not reading any posts anymore. You may go to the point of no return...oh wait.

Morgan gets caught from behind all the time. He's not fast. He sucks. He's just a sing favorite. And don't give me "because sing starts him he is better." sing does lots of stupid crap. He doesn't know what he is doing.

I wanna see Jason Hill out there more.

for those who say Jason Hill's speed is overrated.... I have seen him burn his man a couple of times this year.....hell that Last play on 3rd down against the Seahawks could have been a TD if Alex threw it to Jason and not Morgan...

before the pitch forks come out, I don't blame Alex for that throw.... although I wish he would have hit Vernon over the middle...or just ran for the 1st down....

but this is about Jason Hill, he burnt his man.

edit-
watching the play again, it seems like the CB was holding Hill....maybe we could have got a PI or something....although the way they were officiating that day

but that is one thing I do see alot... Jason seems to cause lots of PI calls on opposing defenses.

[ Edited by Afrikan on Dec 12, 2009 at 02:52:24 ]

Originally posted by Afrikan:
for those who say Jason Hill's speed is overrated.... I have seen him burn his man a couple of times this year.....hell that Last play on 3rd down against the Seahawks could have been a TD if Alex threw it to Jason and not Morgan...

before the pitch forks come out, I don't blame Alex for that throw.... although I wish he would have hit Vernon over the middle...or just ran for the 1st down....

but this is about Jason Hill, he burnt his man.

Yeah I saw that too. He was gone for a long TD. Alex should've ran for it or thrown it to him, but at the same time other players had plenty of opportunities to win the game and we pissed it away.

If speed was the most important factor in the makeup of a wide receiver Jerry Rice would not be the G.O.A.T. and Heyward-Bey would be up for rookie of the year honors. Morgan has been really inconsistent but I wouldn't write him completely off. I think people's expectations are too high for him, he's shown us flashes but realistically the most he could ever be is a decent number two, possession guy. He is never going to be guy who puts up great numbers week to week and it's only his second season.

The coaches are not complete idiots despite the popular belief. If Hill gave us a better chance to win by playing in over Morgan I'm sure he would start. It probably has more to do with the fact that they are different types of receivers. Morgan is a damn good blocker and a physical guy. While he has been unremarkable most of this year he also has 6 catches in each of our last two games. Hill on the other hand is lighter and speedier, and can do a lot of damage in the slot and when he's not facing press coverage.

I wish Hill would get more playing time and more balls thrown his way but he is limited by our schemes and depth at receiver this year. Before the new offensive approach we rarely went with three wide receivers and Hill was overlooked for Bruce and Battle. Our schemes with Vernon and Delanie in our two tight-end sets keep Hill off the field as well. Walker has 7 catches the past two games and Davis continues to be our number one target. Add in Crabtree, Morgan, and Gore and you've got 5 guys who are more likely to be on the field and be targeted than Hill even if he's penciled in as the slot.

With our playoff hopes crushed I bet we'll see more of Hill and hopefully of Brandon Jones. With any lucky maybe one can emerge as the outside deep threat that we desperately need.

One play that sticks out to me, was the winning TD Jason Hill scored last season against the skins, can somebody say PLAYMAKER?

Jason Hill is a nifty, quick reciever while Morgan is strong and will take the ball away from DBs. I like them both very much and hope the latter is just going through sophmore jinx?

The main issue is time spent catching A Smith. As they play more together the routes will become faster and cuts more precise (provided coaching...?). Hill is a bit fragile and evidently not a good practice player and that may be why he sits. I would love to see Hill, Jones and Crabtree in together just to drive the D's crazy. Along with VD that would really represent a huge variety of recieving types.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
for those who say Jason Hill's speed is overrated.... I have seen him burn his man a couple of times this year.....hell that Last play on 3rd down against the Seahawks could have been a TD if Alex threw it to Jason and not Morgan...

before the pitch forks come out, I don't blame Alex for that throw.... although I wish he would have hit Vernon over the middle...or just ran for the 1st down....

but this is about Jason Hill, he burnt his man.

edit-
watching the play again, it seems like the CB was holding Hill....maybe we could have got a PI or something....although the way they were officiating that day

but that is one thing I do see alot... Jason seems to cause lots of PI calls on opposing defenses.

He has good speed and he gets behind people. We just don't use him.

I think it should stay as it is as long as it is working.