Who is the Most Underrated 49er?

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Yeh Franklin stepped up his game last year. People never wanted to give him a chance. A lot of times people on this board rag on players who are not high profile. They want to give guys like Haynesworth 100 million dollars to do the same job Franklin is capable of doing. I'm not saying Franklin is better then Haynesworth, but if you look at cost and effectiveness, Franklin is a gem. He is the fastest 315 pound man off the snap if he plays one gap. Stupid Nolan wanted him to be like Haynesworth and play two gaps all day as well as rush the passer.

MANHANDLED the center. I like to hear TKO say that. He is a Vet.

I don't think haynesworth's body could handle the 2 gap in a 3-4. If the redskins go 3-4 it will be after this season when they fire the head coach again. Really though haynesworth is a great player but he's body hasn't been able to with stand a 4-3, what makes people think he could do it in a 3-4 and stay healthy.

Haynesworth is indeed injury prone. I think it is because of the violent way he plays the game. Also, his work ethic and attitude is questionable, which leads to a lot of injuries.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:
Of course Spikes is going to say those things about Franklin. Gore better be giving Heitmann props for opening up holes too. If Franklin is doing his job, who is not doing their job on the d-line? Justin Smith seems to be pulling his weight. Hopefully the other DE spot can start putting some pressure on the opposing offense. Add on a possible surgence from Manny Lawson rushing the passer and things should start to look good. Pressure and sacks on the QB causes turnovers. Getting off the field on 3rd down never hurts either. Keep the defense fresh. Extend our own offensive drives with a run oriented offense which will wear down their defense. Win the game... Okay, I got a little off track. Sorry.

Dude the d line in the 3-4 we play doesn't pressure the qb primarily,they occupy the blockers so the bad ass linebackers we have can get after the ball.I mean come on now,read the article already,it is self explanatory.

I did read the article. Did you read what I posted? No matter what scheme you use the player must do their job. Like I said, a "bad ass linebacker" like Manny Lawson can get after the QB if the guys in front of him are doing their job. You contradicted yourself.

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:
Of course Spikes is going to say those things about Franklin. Gore better be giving Heitmann props for opening up holes too. If Franklin is doing his job, who is not doing their job on the d-line? Justin Smith seems to be pulling his weight. Hopefully the other DE spot can start putting some pressure on the opposing offense. Add on a possible surgence from Manny Lawson rushing the passer and things should start to look good. Pressure and sacks on the QB causes turnovers. Getting off the field on 3rd down never hurts either. Keep the defense fresh. Extend our own offensive drives with a run oriented offense which will wear down their defense. Win the game... Okay, I got a little off track. Sorry.

Dude the d line in the 3-4 we play doesn't pressure the qb primarily,they occupy the blockers so the bad ass linebackers we have can get after the ball.I mean come on now,read the article already,it is self explanatory.

I did read the article. Did you read what I posted? No matter what scheme you use the player must do their job. Like I said, a "bad ass linebacker" like Manny Lawson can get after the QB if the guys in front of him are doing their job. You contradicted yourself.

How did I contradict myself?Maybe your reading comprehension needs some brushing up on?Franklin is doing his job,if he weren't then I doubt that the players would have voted him the most underrated.If anyone is the weak spot on our defensive line I would cast my vote for Sopoaga.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Franklin gets ragged on by the ignorant that think it is his job to pressure the qb,when it really isn't what he is supposed to do.His job is to eat up blockers and make tackles when the back gets close enough for him to reach.He did play well when he was asked to do what he does best,the trouble was our last head coach didn't know what he did best(seems to have been a recurrent problem with that guy).The tackle numbers for our MLB's over the past couple of years prove that Franklin was not nearly as bad as some here claim.Sure they guy is not a tackling machine,but he is not the complete waste of space that some of you guys would have us believe.

Yup. Everytime I see someone saying we need push up the middle, I just cringe and shake my head in amazement. Anyone who knows much about the game and the Line knows that the NT is supposed to hold at the point of attack and allow the Ends and LBs' to do their yobs. Which is to get the ball carrier. Push up the middle is just the icing on top of that cake.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Franklin gets ragged on by the ignorant that think it is his job to pressure the qb,when it really isn't what he is supposed to do.His job is to eat up blockers and make tackles when the back gets close enough for him to reach.He did play well when he was asked to do what he does best,the trouble was our last head coach didn't know what he did best(seems to have been a recurrent problem with that guy).The tackle numbers for our MLB's over the past couple of years prove that Franklin was not nearly as bad as some here claim.Sure they guy is not a tackling machine,but he is not the complete waste of space that some of you guys would have us believe.

Yup. Everytime I see someone saying we need push up the middle, I just cringe and shake my head in amazement. Anyone who knows much about the game and the Line knows that the NT is supposed to hold at the point of attack and allow the Ends and LBs' to do their yobs. Which is to get the ball carrier. Push up the middle is just the icing on top of that cake.

~Ceadder

I respect your opinions on Alex and other matters, but c'mon now. Read this before you spout off about others not knowing the game.

Quote:
The "Phillips"

This system is not what people think of when they think of the 3-4, because the original 3-4 was/is strictly a 2-gap system.

In fact, look at the Denver "Orange Crush Defense" of the late 70's. It was run by Red Miller, and one of his assistants at the time was Coach Belichick. Belichick ended up in NE as we all know, while Fairbanks returned to college coaching in Colorado. Denver fans would thus be more likely than many fans to think of the 3-4 in terms of 2 gap, but you can still read the mistaken notion in many sports sites and publications.

The Phillips is named after "Bum Phillips", father of DAL head coach Wade Phillips, who formerly coached the Broncos as both a head coach and defensive coordinator. Bum learned under Paul "Bear" Bryant at A&M and had coached high school football well enough to break into the college ranks (not a common route). He was a defensive coordinator in SD, then in HOU (that's the Oilers for you young folks). He later was a head coach in HOU and later for NO.

Phillips was an innovator who turned the 3-4 upside down. His system is one-gap. The DL penetrates, and is charged with constant harrasment of the QB. The LBs are typically fast, and at least one of them will blitz on any given play.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/7/481970/mhr-university-modern-3-4

What you described is more of a 2-gap NT... hold the POA while shoving the OC forward and reading the play to both A gaps. The 1-gap NT will penetrate to one of the A gaps while pushing up the middle to get after the QB on pass plays. The whole point to shoving the OC/OG back into the pocket so as to keep the QB from stepping up and away from the outside rush LBs.

[ Edited by oldman9er on Jun 28, 2009 at 19:55:11 ]

you cant blame people for thinking that franklin is supposed to get sacks, he's just not that type of nt but there are nt's that are used that way.

I was gonna name a couple players such as Ray McDonald and Spikes, yet once I began typing one player's name jumped out at me.


JOE NEDNEY

The guy is Mr. Consistent. First kicker in a longggg time that I've had confidence in. Yet, he's still not mentioned as being in the upper echelon of kickers in the league.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:
Of course Spikes is going to say those things about Franklin. Gore better be giving Heitmann props for opening up holes too. If Franklin is doing his job, who is not doing their job on the d-line? Justin Smith seems to be pulling his weight. Hopefully the other DE spot can start putting some pressure on the opposing offense. Add on a possible surgence from Manny Lawson rushing the passer and things should start to look good. Pressure and sacks on the QB causes turnovers. Getting off the field on 3rd down never hurts either. Keep the defense fresh. Extend our own offensive drives with a run oriented offense which will wear down their defense. Win the game... Okay, I got a little off track. Sorry.

Dude the d line in the 3-4 we play doesn't pressure the qb primarily,they occupy the blockers so the bad ass linebackers we have can get after the ball.I mean come on now,read the article already,it is self explanatory.

I did read the article. Did you read what I posted? No matter what scheme you use the player must do their job. Like I said, a "bad ass linebacker" like Manny Lawson can get after the QB if the guys in front of him are doing their job. You contradicted yourself.

How did I contradict myself?Maybe your reading comprehension needs some brushing up on?Franklin is doing his job,if he weren't then I doubt that the players would have voted him the most underrated.If anyone is the weak spot on our defensive line I would cast my vote for Sopoaga.

I never said Franklin wasn't doing his job. I said "if Franklin is doing his job, who not". You told me to read the article. Yet you obviously didn't read or didn't understand it. You're right about Sopoaga. He is the VD of the Dline. All the attributes but can't get the technique down. Raw talent doesn't always translate.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I would be curious to get the opinion of someone who has legitimate experience watching DT on tape. Some positions are easy to observe (QB, WR, RB, LB, etc.), however its very difficult to objectively judge a DT, especially a 3-4 NT. And normally what I go off of, is either sacks by the OLBs --which is a good reflection of the DL as a hole, but could be misleading due to the quality of the OLBs themselves--and the media coverage. Based on these two metrics, Franklin is nothing special. The niners are pathetic at rushing the passer, but our D-line does not exactly get much recognition from the media. Borrows's most recent article, for example, talks about how the team would like to replace Franklin as a starter. So, I would like to know. Is he very underrated and the kind of NT that can be the anchor of a dominant defense, or are his defensive teammates simply saying that to drive home the point that he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is? If he's truly as good as some of the lines in that article indicate, we are one pass rusher, and a starting quality CB away from having a very dominant defense

Look at the article again. Spikes says that he thinks Franklin is better than most of the guys that made it to the ProBowl. Thats a far cry from saying, "he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is."

I looked at the article again, and Spikes did not say "that Franklin is better than most of guys that made it to the Pro Bowl."

That quote that you cite was Franklin talking about Casey Hampton, not Spikes talking about Franklin.

Here is the quote with the key words in bold.

"Even today, I don't think he's getting the credit he deserves," Franklin said. "This guy is making almost 100 tackles. He never went to the Pro Bowl, in my opinion he was better than some of those guys that went to the Pro Bowl. If I get the respect of my peers than I'm good."

Also, a bit off point and directed to another part of the post. I think that Spikes might qualify as "a person who has legitimate experience watching DT" both live and on tape.

[ Edited by buck on Jun 28, 2009 at 21:37:08 ]

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I would be curious to get the opinion of someone who has legitimate experience watching DT on tape. Some positions are easy to observe (QB, WR, RB, LB, etc.), however its very difficult to objectively judge a DT, especially a 3-4 NT. And normally what I go off of, is either sacks by the OLBs --which is a good reflection of the DL as a hole, but could be misleading due to the quality of the OLBs themselves--and the media coverage. Based on these two metrics, Franklin is nothing special. The niners are pathetic at rushing the passer, but our D-line does not exactly get much recognition from the media. Borrows's most recent article, for example, talks about how the team would like to replace Franklin as a starter. So, I would like to know. Is he very underrated and the kind of NT that can be the anchor of a dominant defense, or are his defensive teammates simply saying that to drive home the point that he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is? If he's truly as good as some of the lines in that article indicate, we are one pass rusher, and a starting quality CB away from having a very dominant defense

Look at the article again. Spikes says that he thinks Franklin is better than most of the guys that made it to the ProBowl. Thats a far cry from saying, "he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is."

I looked at the article again, and Spikes did not say "that Franklin is better than most of guys that made it to the Pro Bowl."

That quote that you cite was Franklin talking about Casey Hampton, not Spikes talking about Franklin.

Here is the quote with the key words in bold.

"Even today, I don't think he's getting the credit he deserves," Franklin said. "This guy is making almost 100 tackles. He never went to the Pro Bowl, in my opinion he was better than some of those guys that went to the Pro Bowl. If I get the respect of my peers than I'm good."

Also, a bit off point and directed to another part of the post. I think that Spikes might qualify as "a person who has legitimate experience watching DT" both live and on tape.

Yeah he lines up right behind the dt spot lol, let alone studies game film and observes what could have or should have been done better on game day. Good point!

Originally posted by frankie:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I would be curious to get the opinion of someone who has legitimate experience watching DT on tape. Some positions are easy to observe (QB, WR, RB, LB, etc.), however its very difficult to objectively judge a DT, especially a 3-4 NT. And normally what I go off of, is either sacks by the OLBs --which is a good reflection of the DL as a hole, but could be misleading due to the quality of the OLBs themselves--and the media coverage. Based on these two metrics, Franklin is nothing special. The niners are pathetic at rushing the passer, but our D-line does not exactly get much recognition from the media. Borrows's most recent article, for example, talks about how the team would like to replace Franklin as a starter. So, I would like to know. Is he very underrated and the kind of NT that can be the anchor of a dominant defense, or are his defensive teammates simply saying that to drive home the point that he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is? If he's truly as good as some of the lines in that article indicate, we are one pass rusher, and a starting quality CB away from having a very dominant defense

Look at the article again. Spikes says that he thinks Franklin is better than most of the guys that made it to the ProBowl. Thats a far cry from saying, "he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is."

I looked at the article again, and Spikes did not say "that Franklin is better than most of guys that made it to the Pro Bowl."

That quote that you cite was Franklin talking about Casey Hampton, not Spikes talking about Franklin.

Here is the quote with the key words in bold.

"Even today, I don't think he's getting the credit he deserves," Franklin said. "This guy is making almost 100 tackles. He never went to the Pro Bowl, in my opinion he was better than some of those guys that went to the Pro Bowl. If I get the respect of my peers than I'm good."

Also, a bit off point and directed to another part of the post. I think that Spikes might qualify as "a person who has legitimate experience watching DT" both live and on tape.

Yeah he lines up right behind the dt spot lol, let alone studies game film and observes what could have or should have been done better on game day. Good point!

plus as the ted linbacker he's the one that hit's the oline so willis doesn't get touched so i agree with this.

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Originally posted by frankie:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I would be curious to get the opinion of someone who has legitimate experience watching DT on tape. Some positions are easy to observe (QB, WR, RB, LB, etc.), however its very difficult to objectively judge a DT, especially a 3-4 NT. And normally what I go off of, is either sacks by the OLBs --which is a good reflection of the DL as a hole, but could be misleading due to the quality of the OLBs themselves--and the media coverage. Based on these two metrics, Franklin is nothing special. The niners are pathetic at rushing the passer, but our D-line does not exactly get much recognition from the media. Borrows's most recent article, for example, talks about how the team would like to replace Franklin as a starter. So, I would like to know. Is he very underrated and the kind of NT that can be the anchor of a dominant defense, or are his defensive teammates simply saying that to drive home the point that he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is? If he's truly as good as some of the lines in that article indicate, we are one pass rusher, and a starting quality CB away from having a very dominant defense

Look at the article again. Spikes says that he thinks Franklin is better than most of the guys that made it to the ProBowl. Thats a far cry from saying, "he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is."

I looked at the article again, and Spikes did not say "that Franklin is better than most of guys that made it to the Pro Bowl."

That quote that you cite was Franklin talking about Casey Hampton, not Spikes talking about Franklin.

Here is the quote with the key words in bold.

"Even today, I don't think he's getting the credit he deserves," Franklin said. "This guy is making almost 100 tackles. He never went to the Pro Bowl, in my opinion he was better than some of those guys that went to the Pro Bowl. If I get the respect of my peers than I'm good."

Also, a bit off point and directed to another part of the post. I think that Spikes might qualify as "a person who has legitimate experience watching DT" both live and on tape.

Yeah he lines up right behind the dt spot lol, let alone studies game film and observes what could have or should have been done better on game day. Good point!

plus as the ted linbacker he's the one that hit's the oline so willis doesn't get touched so i agree with this.

I agree wit this as well.
Yep spikes is the m norris of the defense lol

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersBest1:
Of course Spikes is going to say those things about Franklin. Gore better be giving Heitmann props for opening up holes too. If Franklin is doing his job, who is not doing their job on the d-line? Justin Smith seems to be pulling his weight. Hopefully the other DE spot can start putting some pressure on the opposing offense. Add on a possible surgence from Manny Lawson rushing the passer and things should start to look good. Pressure and sacks on the QB causes turnovers. Getting off the field on 3rd down never hurts either. Keep the defense fresh. Extend our own offensive drives with a run oriented offense which will wear down their defense. Win the game... Okay, I got a little off track. Sorry.

Dude the d line in the 3-4 we play doesn't pressure the qb primarily,they occupy the blockers so the bad ass linebackers we have can get after the ball.I mean come on now,read the article already,it is self explanatory.

I did read the article. Did you read what I posted? No matter what scheme you use the player must do their job. Like I said, a "bad ass linebacker" like Manny Lawson can get after the QB if the guys in front of him are doing their job. You contradicted yourself.

How did I contradict myself?Maybe your reading comprehension needs some brushing up on?Franklin is doing his job,if he weren't then I doubt that the players would have voted him the most underrated.If anyone is the weak spot on our defensive line I would cast my vote for Sopoaga.

I never said Franklin wasn't doing his job. I said "if Franklin is doing his job, who not". You told me to read the article. Yet you obviously didn't read or didn't understand it. You're right about Sopoaga. He is the VD of the Dline. All the attributes but can't get the technique down. Raw talent doesn't always translate.

Ummmmm Icebox is playing more End right now BECAUSE of Franklin. Not because he isn't decent. So how are you gonna front and say that he's the VD of the DLine? Speaking of whom, Duke has been held back because our $h|tty OLine doesn't stand up to even mediocre Defenses.

I like how people point out the few instances where a player doesn't perform to expectations as proof of their suckittude. Please find another 2 examples. Cause the one that you tried to base it off the performance on the Offensive side of the ball is ridiculous.

This is why people take cheap shots at 9er fans. Ignorant comments like that make us all look bad. I'm not saying they are top 5 or even 10 in their positions right now (or maybe never) but they do what is asked of them without complaint.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I would be curious to get the opinion of someone who has legitimate experience watching DT on tape. Some positions are easy to observe (QB, WR, RB, LB, etc.), however its very difficult to objectively judge a DT, especially a 3-4 NT. And normally what I go off of, is either sacks by the OLBs --which is a good reflection of the DL as a hole, but could be misleading due to the quality of the OLBs themselves--and the media coverage. Based on these two metrics, Franklin is nothing special. The niners are pathetic at rushing the passer, but our D-line does not exactly get much recognition from the media. Borrows's most recent article, for example, talks about how the team would like to replace Franklin as a starter. So, I would like to know. Is he very underrated and the kind of NT that can be the anchor of a dominant defense, or are his defensive teammates simply saying that to drive home the point that he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is? If he's truly as good as some of the lines in that article indicate, we are one pass rusher, and a starting quality CB away from having a very dominant defense

Look at the article again. Spikes says that he thinks Franklin is better than most of the guys that made it to the ProBowl. Thats a far cry from saying, "he's not as bad as everyone thinks he is."

I looked at the article again, and Spikes did not say "that Franklin is better than most of guys that made it to the Pro Bowl."

That quote that you cite was Franklin talking about Casey Hampton, not Spikes talking about Franklin.

Here is the quote with the key words in bold.

"Even today, I don't think he's getting the credit he deserves," Franklin said. "This guy is making almost 100 tackles. He never went to the Pro Bowl, in my opinion he was better than some of those guys that went to the Pro Bowl. If I get the respect of my peers than I'm good."

Also, a bit off point and directed to another part of the post. I think that Spikes might qualify as "a person who has legitimate experience watching DT" both live and on tape.

Took my own advice and read it again. Looks like it was Franklin talking about Kelly Gregg. You never know though with Lynch his articles aren't very well written.

Delaney Walker.