QB Competition

Bottome line is if Alex gets anywhere near Hill on accuracy of underneath passes and comfort in the pocket, his arm strength will be the deciding edge that gets him the starting job. Arm strength DOES matter when comparing two fairly equal QBs.

I know you will then say that they are far from equal, but that's an uninformed opinion and nothing else. All that does is stipulate that you offer no chance of improvement for Alex... and sends off a clear sign of your arrogance in evaluating QBs.

A stronger arm will help to open up space on a defense. It will back DBs off, and force CBs to play the sidelines more... therefore opening up the deep ins, hitches, and slants. It will give a QB the luxury of zipping in a pass to a target that should have been spotted a few seconds earlier.

What Alex must prove is that he can apply touch to some passes... that he has learned enough of the system to NOT have to guess... so that he knows where his targets are gonna be, and can get it in when the window opens. You will probably say he can not ever do this... I say BS, and show me your crystal ball.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Bottome line is if Alex gets anywhere near Hill on accuracy of underneath passes and comfort in the pocket, his arm strength will be the deciding edge that gets him the starting job. Arm strength DOES matter when comparing two fairly equal QBs.

I know you will then say that they are far from equal, but that's an uninformed opinion and nothing else. All that does is stipulate that you offer no chance of improvement for Alex... and sends off a clear sign of your arrogance in evaluating QBs.

A stronger arm will help to open up space on a defense. It will back DBs off, and force CBs to play the sidelines more... therefore opening up the deep ins, hitches, and slants. It will give a QB the luxury of zipping in a pass to a target that should have been spotted a few seconds earlier.

What Alex must prove is that he can apply touch to some passes... that he has learned enough of the system to NOT have to guess... so that he knows where his targets are gonna be, and can get it in when the window opens. You will probably say he can not ever do this... I say BS, and show me your crystal ball.

Alex is FAR from Shaun Hill because the first thing Alex needs to prove is something that is very simple: making a good throw when things are not perfect on a consistent bases.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Bottome line is if Alex gets anywhere near Hill on accuracy of underneath passes and comfort in the pocket, his arm strength will be the deciding edge that gets him the starting job. Arm strength DOES matter when comparing two fairly equal QBs.

I know you will then say that they are far from equal, but that's an uninformed opinion and nothing else. All that does is stipulate that you offer no chance of improvement for Alex... and sends off a clear sign of your arrogance in evaluating QBs.

A stronger arm will help to open up space on a defense. It will back DBs off, and force CBs to play the sidelines more... therefore opening up the deep ins, hitches, and slants. It will give a QB the luxury of zipping in a pass to a target that should have been spotted a few seconds earlier.

What Alex must prove is that he can apply touch to some passes... that he has learned enough of the system to NOT have to guess... so that he knows where his targets are gonna be, and can get it in when the window opens. You will probably say he can not ever do this... I say BS, and show me your crystal ball.

Alex is FAR from Shaun Hill because the first thing Alex needs to prove is something that is very simple: making a good throw when things are not perfect on a consistent bases.

It's basis, and it is also clear that you are unable to be objective on this, so consider yourself exposed and no longer credible on this matter.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Bottome line is if Alex gets anywhere near Hill on accuracy of underneath passes and comfort in the pocket, his arm strength will be the deciding edge that gets him the starting job. Arm strength DOES matter when comparing two fairly equal QBs.

I know you will then say that they are far from equal, but that's an uninformed opinion and nothing else. All that does is stipulate that you offer no chance of improvement for Alex... and sends off a clear sign of your arrogance in evaluating QBs.

A stronger arm will help to open up space on a defense. It will back DBs off, and force CBs to play the sidelines more... therefore opening up the deep ins, hitches, and slants. It will give a QB the luxury of zipping in a pass to a target that should have been spotted a few seconds earlier.

What Alex must prove is that he can apply touch to some passes... that he has learned enough of the system to NOT have to guess... so that he knows where his targets are gonna be, and can get it in when the window opens. You will probably say he can not ever do this... I say BS, and show me your crystal ball.

Alex is FAR from Shaun Hill because the first thing Alex needs to prove is something that is very simple: making a good throw when things are not perfect on a consistent bases.

It's basis, and it is also clear that you are unable to be objective on this, so consider yourself exposed and no longer credible on this matter.

I'm talking about real games, not practice. In practice, they are not far apart.

Alex's longest throw of TC was 60 yards to Morgan as well as another 50 yarder to Jones or Morgan. Just clarifying since someone said his longest throw was 35 or 40 yards.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Bottome line is if Alex gets anywhere near Hill on accuracy of underneath passes and comfort in the pocket, his arm strength will be the deciding edge that gets him the starting job. Arm strength DOES matter when comparing two fairly equal QBs.

I know you will then say that they are far from equal, but that's an uninformed opinion and nothing else. All that does is stipulate that you offer no chance of improvement for Alex... and sends off a clear sign of your arrogance in evaluating QBs.

A stronger arm will help to open up space on a defense. It will back DBs off, and force CBs to play the sidelines more... therefore opening up the deep ins, hitches, and slants. It will give a QB the luxury of zipping in a pass to a target that should have been spotted a few seconds earlier.

What Alex must prove is that he can apply touch to some passes... that he has learned enough of the system to NOT have to guess... so that he knows where his targets are gonna be, and can get it in when the window opens. You will probably say he can not ever do this... I say BS, and show me your crystal ball.

Alex is FAR from Shaun Hill because the first thing Alex needs to prove is something that is very simple: making a good throw when things are not perfect on a consistent bases.

It's basis, and it is also clear that you are unable to be objective on this, so consider yourself exposed and no longer credible on this matter.

I'm talking about real games, not practice. In practice, they are not far apart.

Then you take into account NOTHING in looking closer at all of the circumstances for those real games when comparing. So that means you are either ignorant of the aspects of football, or choose to look the other way for your own personal reasons. I'm betting on the latter, and well... that's up to you, but burying your head in the sand won't change the reality at hand.

Anyway, say what you will at this point... I'm done discussing this one with ya.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Bottome line is if Alex gets anywhere near Hill on accuracy of underneath passes and comfort in the pocket, his arm strength will be the deciding edge that gets him the starting job. Arm strength DOES matter when comparing two fairly equal QBs.

I know you will then say that they are far from equal, but that's an uninformed opinion and nothing else. All that does is stipulate that you offer no chance of improvement for Alex... and sends off a clear sign of your arrogance in evaluating QBs.

A stronger arm will help to open up space on a defense. It will back DBs off, and force CBs to play the sidelines more... therefore opening up the deep ins, hitches, and slants. It will give a QB the luxury of zipping in a pass to a target that should have been spotted a few seconds earlier.

What Alex must prove is that he can apply touch to some passes... that he has learned enough of the system to NOT have to guess... so that he knows where his targets are gonna be, and can get it in when the window opens. You will probably say he can not ever do this... I say BS, and show me your crystal ball.

Alex is FAR from Shaun Hill because the first thing Alex needs to prove is something that is very simple: making a good throw when things are not perfect on a consistent bases.

It's basis, and it is also clear that you are unable to be objective on this, so consider yourself exposed and no longer credible on this matter.

I'm talking about real games, not practice. In practice, they are not far apart.

Then you take into account NOTHING in looking closer at all of the circumstances for those real games when comparing. So that means you are either ignorant of the aspects of football, or choose to look the other way for your own personal reasons. I'm betting on the latter, and well... that's up to you, but burying your head in the sand won't change the reality at hand.

Anyway, say what you will at this point... I'm done discussing this one with ya.

Fine!

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

unless you are watching game film, i dont think you can tell what the qbs reads are---you cant get that from tv, and even watching the game at stadium, there is too much action to try to follow all of the qbs reads...

as far as making off balance throws, isnt the point to have the qb try to make as many throws on balance? certainly it is nice to have a guy who can make an occasional off balance throw when a play breaks down, but is that a major part of the job description? and smith has made some nice off balance throws (see the seahawks game when he bounced off the blitzing corner and got pass to gore for td)

as for accuracy, you are right, smith could improve there---as a young developing qb i would expect that he will, especially if he is coached up like he should have been in his first few seasons

You do hope that your QB makes as many on balance throws as he can but that implies you must have great pass protection. Bill Walsh had his QBs practice off balance throws because if you first or second read isn't open, you better be ready to make a throw you normally don't make.

The fact is, fundamentals are what they are and they help in the drop back and front foot action when going through your progressions. The fact is, when it is actually time to make the throw, there are too many variables around you that affect your fundamentals more times than not.

In Alex's history, he has proven to be a VERY poor thrower even if he loses a couple of inches in his forestep for the throw. THESE are the things he lacks. In all honesty, in normal conditions, Hill appears to have a stronger arm than Alex Smith. People seem to forget when Hill came in for Dilfer 2 years ago, he was hitting 12-15 yard outs to D-Drop with pinpoint accuracy.

I don't know why but nothing gets to me more than the false thinking that arm strength equals more deep balls. This is the only reason why I am leaning against Alex Smith in my latest posts. Who the EFF cares about his arm strength and the fact that he threw a 20-yarder to Jason Hill or a 40 yarder to Bruce. Shaun Hill can do that if needed.

What all of us, people who hope Alex becomes the franchise, should want to see is that he is leading his receivers very well on the 10 yard throws and throws it where it's easy to catch or is getting the ball out the some good rythm. Who cares how far the throw is. I don't want to read about Shaun Hill throwing with better accuracy and allowing his receivers to even make 1-handed catches. I want to read that about Alex but I have a feeling he doesn't posses that ability.

Quote:
In all honesty, in normal conditions, Hill appears to have a stronger arm than Alex Smith.

And with that all objectivity was tossed out the window. Credibility at zero.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

unless you are watching game film, i dont think you can tell what the qbs reads are---you cant get that from tv, and even watching the game at stadium, there is too much action to try to follow all of the qbs reads...

as far as making off balance throws, isnt the point to have the qb try to make as many throws on balance? certainly it is nice to have a guy who can make an occasional off balance throw when a play breaks down, but is that a major part of the job description? and smith has made some nice off balance throws (see the seahawks game when he bounced off the blitzing corner and got pass to gore for td)

as for accuracy, you are right, smith could improve there---as a young developing qb i would expect that he will, especially if he is coached up like he should have been in his first few seasons

You do hope that your QB makes as many on balance throws as he can but that implies you must have great pass protection. Bill Walsh had his QBs practice off balance throws because if you first or second read isn't open, you better be ready to make a throw you normally don't make.

The fact is, fundamentals are what they are and they help in the drop back and front foot action when going through your progressions. The fact is, when it is actually time to make the throw, there are too many variables around you that affect your fundamentals more times than not.

In Alex's history, he has proven to be a VERY poor thrower even if he loses a couple of inches in his forestep for the throw. THESE are the things he lacks. In all honesty, in normal conditions, Hill appears to have a stronger arm than Alex Smith. People seem to forget when Hill came in for Dilfer 2 years ago, he was hitting 12-15 yard outs to D-Drop with pinpoint accuracy.

I don't know why but nothing gets to me more than the false thinking that arm strength equals more deep balls. This is the only reason why I am leaning against Alex Smith in my latest posts. Who the EFF cares about his arm strength and the fact that he threw a 20-yarder to Jason Hill or a 40 yarder to Bruce. Shaun Hill can do that if needed.

What all of us, people who hope Alex becomes the franchise, should want to see is that he is leading his receivers very well on the 10 yard throws and throws it where it's easy to catch or is getting the ball out the some good rythm. Who cares how far the throw is. I don't want to read about Shaun Hill throwing with better accuracy and allowing his receivers to even make 1-handed catches. I want to read that about Alex but I have a feeling he doesn't posses that ability.

WOW....Really, and in what alternate universe are these normal conditions?

Per Barrows Twitter few min ago.

"mattbarrows :Best play of camp: 25-yard td from smith to bruce."

Originally posted by aacadena:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

unless you are watching game film, i dont think you can tell what the qbs reads are---you cant get that from tv, and even watching the game at stadium, there is too much action to try to follow all of the qbs reads...

as far as making off balance throws, isnt the point to have the qb try to make as many throws on balance? certainly it is nice to have a guy who can make an occasional off balance throw when a play breaks down, but is that a major part of the job description? and smith has made some nice off balance throws (see the seahawks game when he bounced off the blitzing corner and got pass to gore for td)

as for accuracy, you are right, smith could improve there---as a young developing qb i would expect that he will, especially if he is coached up like he should have been in his first few seasons

You do hope that your QB makes as many on balance throws as he can but that implies you must have great pass protection. Bill Walsh had his QBs practice off balance throws because if you first or second read isn't open, you better be ready to make a throw you normally don't make.

The fact is, fundamentals are what they are and they help in the drop back and front foot action when going through your progressions. The fact is, when it is actually time to make the throw, there are too many variables around you that affect your fundamentals more times than not.

In Alex's history, he has proven to be a VERY poor thrower even if he loses a couple of inches in his forestep for the throw. THESE are the things he lacks. In all honesty, in normal conditions, Hill appears to have a stronger arm than Alex Smith. People seem to forget when Hill came in for Dilfer 2 years ago, he was hitting 12-15 yard outs to D-Drop with pinpoint accuracy.

I don't know why but nothing gets to me more than the false thinking that arm strength equals more deep balls. This is the only reason why I am leaning against Alex Smith in my latest posts. Who the EFF cares about his arm strength and the fact that he threw a 20-yarder to Jason Hill or a 40 yarder to Bruce. Shaun Hill can do that if needed.

What all of us, people who hope Alex becomes the franchise, should want to see is that he is leading his receivers very well on the 10 yard throws and throws it where it's easy to catch or is getting the ball out the some good rythm. Who cares how far the throw is. I don't want to read about Shaun Hill throwing with better accuracy and allowing his receivers to even make 1-handed catches. I want to read that about Alex but I have a feeling he doesn't posses that ability.

WOW....Really, and in what alternate universe are these normal conditions?

Normal conditions: shifting split second before a throw, slightly adjusting the release point so it isn't batted down (Alex has had a lot of passes deflected at the LOS).

Basically, normal conditions are anything that isn't perfect. Alex has shown to sail passes over players heads as a QB with not enough arm strength usually does.

Normal conditions is an NFL game and Alex has been known to throw the ball at a receivers feet often.


If you don't believe by now, that Alex Smith's arm sucks if he is not ideally set or if he's not on a rollout with enough room or time to throw.

He has yet to prove otherwise in "normal conditions". Practice is not a normal environment especially for a QB.

Kyle Boller used to look awesome in practice.

[ Edited by Joecool on Aug 5, 2009 at 10:42:48 ]

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by aacadena:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

unless you are watching game film, i dont think you can tell what the qbs reads are---you cant get that from tv, and even watching the game at stadium, there is too much action to try to follow all of the qbs reads...

as far as making off balance throws, isnt the point to have the qb try to make as many throws on balance? certainly it is nice to have a guy who can make an occasional off balance throw when a play breaks down, but is that a major part of the job description? and smith has made some nice off balance throws (see the seahawks game when he bounced off the blitzing corner and got pass to gore for td)

as for accuracy, you are right, smith could improve there---as a young developing qb i would expect that he will, especially if he is coached up like he should have been in his first few seasons

You do hope that your QB makes as many on balance throws as he can but that implies you must have great pass protection. Bill Walsh had his QBs practice off balance throws because if you first or second read isn't open, you better be ready to make a throw you normally don't make.

The fact is, fundamentals are what they are and they help in the drop back and front foot action when going through your progressions. The fact is, when it is actually time to make the throw, there are too many variables around you that affect your fundamentals more times than not.

In Alex's history, he has proven to be a VERY poor thrower even if he loses a couple of inches in his forestep for the throw. THESE are the things he lacks. In all honesty, in normal conditions, Hill appears to have a stronger arm than Alex Smith. People seem to forget when Hill came in for Dilfer 2 years ago, he was hitting 12-15 yard outs to D-Drop with pinpoint accuracy.

I don't know why but nothing gets to me more than the false thinking that arm strength equals more deep balls. This is the only reason why I am leaning against Alex Smith in my latest posts. Who the EFF cares about his arm strength and the fact that he threw a 20-yarder to Jason Hill or a 40 yarder to Bruce. Shaun Hill can do that if needed.

What all of us, people who hope Alex becomes the franchise, should want to see is that he is leading his receivers very well on the 10 yard throws and throws it where it's easy to catch or is getting the ball out the some good rythm. Who cares how far the throw is. I don't want to read about Shaun Hill throwing with better accuracy and allowing his receivers to even make 1-handed catches. I want to read that about Alex but I have a feeling he doesn't posses that ability.

WOW....Really, and in what alternate universe are these normal conditions?

Normal conditions: shifting split second before a throw, slightly adjusting the release point so it isn't batted down (Alex has had a lot of passes deflected at the LOS).

Basically, normal conditions are anything that isn't perfect. Alex has shown to sail passes over players heads as a QB with not enough arm strength usually does.

Normal conditions is an NFL game and Alex has been known to throw the ball at a receivers feet often.


If you don't believe by now, that Alex Smith's arm sucks if he is not ideally set or if he's not on a rollout with enough room or time to throw.

He has yet to prove otherwise in "normal conditions". Practice is not a normal environment especially for a QB.

Kyle Boller used to look awesome in practice.

Well alot of people would say it's pretty hard to throw a 50 yard bomb when your flat footed like Alex did in 06 against the Seahawks in Seattle. I can't even remember when Hill Threw a 50 yard bomb, so i wouldnt exactly say Smith's Arm sucks. but hey what do i know, im just a fan.

If history is any indication, Hill will probably play well enough to keep the starting job. I'm betting Alex will only be our starter if Hill goes down.

According to mbs twitter alex threw the best pass of training camp today with a 25 yard pass to bruce.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:
According to mbs twitter alex threw the best pass of training camp today with a 25 yard pass to bruce.

And a 30 yarder to Vernon and a 30 yarder to Bruce for a fingertip catch.

Maiocco on Twitter and Facebook: "The games are key but there's no question QB Alex Smith has put himself in position to win 49ers' starting job."

OWNAGE. Life racks up the pins, and Alex keeps knocking them down.

[ Edited by indianajim on Aug 5, 2009 at 11:56:21 ]